Adhesion Problem

[Rockytime]

I have a problem with small parts of my pattern lifting.  I apply Duck brand shelf paper on the wood. I press it down with a rubber roller making sure it adheres well. I spray the back of the pattern liberally with 3M 45 spray adhesive. On most projects I do not have a problem. However, on patterns that have narrow areas to cut the pattern AND the shelf liner lifts from the wood. The shelf liner is rolled rigorously to assure adhesion. I think I will go back to painters tape. I'm wondering if anyone else has experienced this. I tried gluing small piece with a glue stick to no avail. Therefore I'm just guessing perhaps my roller is uneven. Right now I'm too lazy to go out to the shop and check it. I should, perhaps, use a burnisher to assure the shelf liner adheres properly.

[Scrappile]

I have that problem often and I use blue painters tape and 3M 45 or 3M 77 spray and it still does it.  I think it is more of a matter of there is not much sticking power when you get yo that small of a piece or some how dust is getting under the tape as you cut in tight areas.  I have tried the shelf sticky stuff and had the same problem AND I have a roller!  I do not use it all the time, but when I do,,, I have the same problem.  I have just learned to live with it.

[OCtoolguy]

18 minutes ago, Rockytime said:

I have a problem with small parts of my pattern lifting.  I apply Duck brand shelf paper on the wood. I press it down with a rubber roller making sure it adheres well. I spray the back of the pattern liberally with 3M 45 spray adhesive. On most projects I do not have a problem. However, on patterns that have narrow areas to cut the pattern AND the shelf liner lifts from the wood. The shelf liner is rolled rigorously to assure adhesion. I think I will go back to painters tape. I'm wondering if anyone else has experienced this. I tried gluing small piece with a glue stick to no avail. Therefore I'm just guessing perhaps my roller is uneven. Right now I'm too lazy to go out to the shop and check it. I should, perhaps, use a burnisher to assure the shelf liner adheres properly.

What blade are you using? Just wondering, if it's the UR blade that may be lifting your patterns. How about trying a non reverse blade or a blade that only has the reverse teeth on the under side?

 

[Scrappile]

I use a FD Penguin Silver Reverse, FD-PSR a lot.  May next time I will try the one without the reverse teeth in some tight area and see.  When you get to real small area, there is not a whole lot of sticky holding, and would not take much to lift things up.

[Rockytime]

Thanks for the replies.  I was cutting 1/2" Poplar with a #1 Olson Blade, not a reverse tooth blade. I will experiment using a burnishing tool. It will apply much more direct pressure on the shelf liner. I'll experiment on some scrap. If that works, OK. It not I'll go back to painters tape on critical cuttings.

[bandaideman]

I too have those issues and as stated before I have learned to live with it. It is usually the narrow areas of the pattern and I have noticed the blade is moving the small piece up and down which helps it detach. I have used tape to hold down the lifted piece, try to cut inside cut first then outside area which seems to help or a small like dental tool to hold it down while I finish the cut. 

[Rockytime]

Thanks! I had not thought of tape. My father was a dentist and I kept lots of pics. As a matter of fact I offer root canals on the weekends for just #19.99. Have not been able to get any customers so far. :>)

[Wichman]

What kind of prep are you doing to the wood? I use a ROS with 220 grit to prep the wood, then a lightly moistened cloth to get the sawdust.

[RabidAlien]

$19.99?  That's not bad at all!  Which brand whiskey do you use as an anesthetic?

 

I've had this happen to me on occasion, I think it has to do with the friction of the blade warming up the glue just enough that it pops up.  Doesn't happen anywhere else because there's enough glue away from the "warm" area to keep it held down.  Usually it happens in a spot I've just finished cutting or am about to finish, so I'll trap the wayward piece under a fingernail (keeping in mind the blade and where the blade will be going at the next turn) until I'm past it, then tear it off so it doesn't snag on something or just sit there flapping and bugging the crap outta me.  I'm still on the old 3" pin-ended blades, and haven't found any reverse-tooth options (found some Pegas skip-tooth 3" pinned blades, which are awesome), so I don't think its the return stroke tooth that's pulling up your pattern. 

[Rockytime]

35 minutes ago, Wichman said:

What kind of prep are you doing to the wood? I use a ROS with 220 grit to prep the wood, then a lightly moistened cloth to get the sawdust.

I sometimes use a tack cloth to wipe down the wood.

[scrollingforsanity]

I also use a piece of scotch tape on the small area if it starts lifting as I use the shelf liner exclusively and this seems to solve the problem so far. As Paul said there is not much surface area to hold the sticky.  Good luck

grizz

 

[jerry1939]

11 minutes ago, scrollingforsanity said:

I also use a piece of scotch tape on the small area if it starts lifting as I use the shelf liner exclusively and this seems to solve the problem so far. As Paul said there is not much surface area to hold the sticky.  Good luck

grizz

 

I often use Scotch Tape also.  Keep a roll mounted by the saw.  After taping, OSHA would hang me if they saw how close to the blade I put a finger to hold the taped piece down.  Could use a craft stick, but I like living on the edge.  

jerry

[RabidAlien]

6 minutes ago, jerry1939 said:

I often use Scotch Tape also.  Keep a roll mounted by the saw.  After taping, OSHA would hang me if they saw how close to the blade I put a finger to hold the taped piece down.  Could use a craft stick, but I like living on the edge.  

jerry

God gave us 10 fingers for a reason!  If, by the third finger, you haven't figured out how close you can get to the blade, scrolling probably isn't for you.  LOL

[wombatie]

I read somewhere a long time ago, don't ask me where, that if your pattern lifts use a pencil with an eraser on the top to hold the pattern down.  I always keep one close to my saw just in case I need it.

Marg

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

I have it happen too on occasion. I use painters tape and spray on adhesive. I have a tape dispenser next to the saw ans will use some scoth tape when it happens. Not to panic just stop and tape. 

[NC Scroller]

I can't say that this never happens to me but it is very rare. I prep the wood by sanding up to 220 grit.  Then I wipe off all the dust and residue by rubbing the wood down with a piece of clean dry paper towel. If I do have some lifting I stop immediately and apply scotch tape.

[Bill WIlson]

12 hours ago, Rockytime said:

I sometimes use a tack cloth to wipe down the wood.

I wonder if that could be part of the problem?  Years ago, the general consensus on some of the WW'ing forums, was that tack cloths could possibly contaminate the surface and cause problems with the clear finish top coat.  Don't know if that is a myth or not.  I never use tack cloths.  Personally, I would use alcohol to wipe down the surface of the wood.  I've used mineral spirits, but you have to let it fully evaporate first and it takes some time for that to occur.  Alcohol will evaporate considerably faster than MS.

[oldhudson]

12 minutes ago, Bill WIlson said:

I wonder if that could be part of the problem?  Years ago, the general consensus on some of the WW'ing forums, was that tack cloths could possibly contaminate the surface and cause problems with the clear finish top coat.  Don't know if that is a myth or not.  I never use tack cloths.  Personally, I would use alcohol to wipe down the surface of the wood.  I've used mineral spirits, but you have to let it fully evaporate first and it takes some time for that to occur.  Alcohol will evaporate considerably faster than MS.

I use tack cloths quite often and never had an issue with finishing. Sometimes I will wipe down a project with naptha, it flashes off a lot faster than mineral spirits.

[tgiro]

I'm with Bill - sand your surface down to 220 = 320 grit and then wipe it off with alcohol. Some woods might have a little oily surface and adhesive just won't stick. On some of the exotics (chicoti, cocobolo, etc) I've even resorted to acetone wipe to get the surface clean.

[Rob]

19 hours ago, RabidAlien said:

$19.99?  That's not bad at all!  Which brand whiskey do you use as an anesthetic?

 

I've had this happen to me on occasion, I think it has to do with the friction of the blade warming up the glue just enough that it pops up.  Doesn't happen anywhere else because there's enough glue away from the "warm" area to keep it held down.  Usually it happens in a spot I've just finished cutting or am about to finish, so I'll trap the wayward piece under a fingernail (keeping in mind the blade and where the blade will be going at the next turn) until I'm past it, then tear it off so it doesn't snag on something or just sit there flapping and bugging the crap outta me.  I'm still on the old 3" pin-ended blades, and haven't found any reverse-tooth options (found some Pegas skip-tooth 3" pinned blades, which are awesome), so I don't think its the return stroke tooth that's pulling up your pattern. 

At $19.99, I reckon you'll need to supply your own whiskey!

Rob

[BadBob]

I stopped using tack cloths because they would leave a sticky residue that I could feel with my fingers. The cloth wood sometimes hang on the wood and leave a bit of lint behind.

 

[amazingkevin]

This is why I changed glues from loc Tite to 3m #45. I,d have to use a pencil on cuts like your talking about way to often.