Just Moaning

[Foxfold]

I don't know anyone that uses a scrollsaw that I can tell my woes to, so I've come on here

I've tried today to do a 3d cut with 1½" wood and yet again I've failed.

I've tried 'flat' wood too, but cutting anything thicker than ¼" is truly beyond my capabilities, and I just wanted to bemoan my fate with people that understand what I'm talking about

Thanks for listening.  xxx

[savethebeer]

Its another learning curve Brenda. Small changes needed. maybe a different blade to start with. 

Bob

[OCtoolguy]

44 minutes ago, Foxfold said:

I don't know anyone that uses a scrollsaw that I can tell my woes to, so I've come on here

I've tried today to do a 3d cut with 1½" wood and yet again I've failed.

I've tried 'flat' wood too, but cutting anything thicker than ¼" is truly beyond my capabilities, and I just wanted to bemoan my fate with people that understand what I'm talking about

Thanks for listening.  xxx

Brenda, two things come to mind. Actually three. First and most important, make sure you have your table absolutely perpendicular to the blade. It must be. Second, make sure you have your blade tensioned correctly. Third, use a blade that will move the sawdust out of the kerf as quickly as possible. You don't need a reverse tooth blade. A skip tooth blade is probably best. And something a bit on the coarse side. I offer this because after cutting the 8 side panels on the piece I showed the other day, I learned all of the above. Keep at it, you'll figure it out.

 

One other thing, let the blade work. Don't push too hard or it will "bow" the blade and make sure you aren't pushing to either side.

 

 

Edited January 16, 2019 by octoolguy

[NC Scroller]

There are a few tricks involved.  First you need the correct wood.  Poplar, butternut and basswoods are some of the easiest.  Pine while a soft wood has a very pronounced grain and the blade will tend to follow grains lines.  Second you should wrap the block with clear packing tape after applying the pattern.  Third you want to use a good quality skip tooth blade.  No smaller then a #5.  Reverse tooth blades are not recommended.  Fourth you want to use a clamping devise such as this to hold the block together and give you support while cutting.  Fifth is to make sure your blade is square with the table.  Even a 1/2 degree will mess you up.  Finally when you start cutting use a new blade and apply gentile pressure straight into the blade while you cut.  Change blades often.  Good Luck. 

Edited January 16, 2019 by NC Scroller

[Scrappile]

I just finished that nutcracker and most of it was cut out of 1 1/2" wood.  I used a #5 Pegas Modified Geometry SPR for most of it.  That was because it was the biggest most aggressive blade I have.  The size was right, but it may have gone better if it hadn't had the few reverse teeth at the bottom.  Maybe not, I don't know.  It worked well, but I had to slow the speed of the saw down to about 1/2 what I normally cut at and go real slow.  This project was only my third attempt at compound (I call it, hope we are talking the same thing), cutting.  If I do a lot more of this type cutting I will probably look for a different blade, or not... 

I didn't have the clamp NC Scroller shows but if I do more I may make one.  There were some scary places where I had to get real close to the edge of the wood and the clamp would have made it easier.  I didn't use the tape, it might also help hold things together. Basically I just winged it, I was using real scrap wood, most was a piece a 2 x 4 I had in the shop, so if it didn't work out no big loss.  I am really surprised it turned out as well as it did, coarse you can cover a multitude of errors with some paint!

Edited January 16, 2019 by Scrappile

[Sycamore67]

It would be extremely helpful to have more info such as kind of wood, blade name and info, and what saw you are using.  Please show us what you cut and how it failed.

The more you tell us the better we can help.  The less we know, the more we are just guessing.

I have cut 1.5" 3d items on my Hegner, from Red Oak, Ash,  Maple, and Walnut with FD Polar #5 blades.  

[Foxfold]

Many thanks for all your input.

I was using just a piece of pine that I found in hubbys shed. I was using a No3 reverse blade, I'm pretty certain my table is square because my 'letters' fall out perfectly.

I don't have a photo as I threw the piece onto the fire, literally   But it was exactly the same problem I had when I tried thicker flat wood, the 'backside' was nowhere near the shape of the pattern that I'd cut on the front. I tried not to  'push' but perhaps I did without thinking.

Where I cut on the front of the pattern looked perfect but when I looked at the 'backside' the cut was miniscule.   If I had to describe what I saw, then I would say a 'V' shape.  I may try using a piece of 'proper' wood and a different blade next time. But I'm easily discouraged and don't feel like trying again just yet.

¼" plywood (which I use mostly) is such a forgiving wood that I don't have a problem cutting that.

I have an Axminster Trade Series saw which performs beautifully on anything else I cut.

 

 

[Sycamore67]

One problem may be the blade you are using.  Please try a skip tooth blade perhaps a #5.  Thicker wood needs different blades.  I think this would help.

[Scrappile]

I'd say, some side ways pressure and wrong blade.  Move up to an aggressive #5 blade, no reverse teeth.  If you have something besides pine would help also.  That would be my, guy with little experience, so take it for what it is worth, advice.

[JimErn]

30 minutes ago, Foxfold said:

Many thanks for all your input. sigh, click the read more, I just found out this site does not act like others I am on, sorry won't quote and reply like this again

I was using just a piece of pine that I found in hubbys shed. I was using a No3 reverse blade, I'm pretty certain my table is square because my 'letters' fall out perfectly.

fallling out is good, the real test is put it back, turn it over and if it falls out all is good

I don't have a photo as I threw the piece onto the fire, literally   But it was exactly the same problem I had when I tried thicker flat wood, the 'backside' was nowhere near the shape of the pattern that I'd cut on the front. I tried not to  'push' but perhaps I did without thinking.

Where I cut on the front of the pattern looked perfect but when I looked at the 'backside' the cut was miniscule.   If I had to describe what I saw, then I would say a 'V' shape.  I may try using a piece of 'proper' wood and a different blade next time. But I'm easily discouraged and don't feel like trying again just yet.

That tells me the blade is not square to the table, you need a square, you can use a Credit Card if you have nothing else, and insure the blade is right along the edge vertically

¼" plywood (which I use mostly) is such a forgiving wood that I don't have a problem cutting that.

I have an Axminster Trade Series saw which performs beautifully on anything else I cut.

 

Edited January 16, 2019 by JimErn

[fredfret]

Having a large front to back alignment can cause problems. To test for square use,a piece of thick wood cut into it about 1/4inch bacteria out turn the board over and align the cut with the blade if it goes in easy blade is square to the table if not adjust about half of the error out and repeat the process. 

[dgman]

Hi Brenda. Yes, a bigger size blade is in order. I have cut plenty of compound cutting. The blade that works for me is a FD Polor #5 or #7. The Polor blade is a skip tooth blade. It also has slightly longer teeth to help clear the sawdust. For me, a little more saw speed works better, and I always use my cutting jigs like Scott @NC Scroller showed. 

In addition to having the blade and table square to each other, it is important to have your wood blank completely square. I agree with using clear packing tape, but don’t wrap it. Apply it smoothly to the pattern then burnish it with a plastic putty knife or a small wooden block. Otherwise sawdust will build up under the tape and obscure the cutting line. 

I have seen your work and you are progressing very nicely. Don’t give up! I know you can do it!

[meflick]

Steve Good has shared a pattern for a clamp to use with compound cutting. You can find it on his blog here along with a video: 

http://scrollsawworkshop.blogspot.com/2012/07/scroll-saw-compound-cut-clamp.html

the others have given great advice above. Definitely switch over to a skip tooth blade rather than reverse tooth. You need thst to clear the kerf I also learned from experience. 

there is a thread on here from last year where there was a lot of discussion with tips on compound cutting. It is well worth a read through. I will see if I can find it.

edited to add: here is thread I was referring to with great info. And help on compound cutting.

http://www.scrollsawvillage.com/forums/topic/24171-compound-cutting-wood/

 

Edited January 17, 2019 by meflick

[jollyred]

Another thing that could cause problems is if the blade tension is too low.  This can allow the blade to bow in the cut and give non perpendicular sides.  Use more tension to the blade than you use for the 1/4" plywood.  It should make a nice pinging sound when plucked.  Steve Good's site has a link to a recording of the sound of a properly tensioned blade, listen to this to hear what I'm saying.

[Tomanydogs]

Brenda. Don’t give up on compound cutting you can cut some very interesting things. I’ve cut several now and I love it. I use a spiral blade which I know won’t help you. I’ve done names which is very easy to make  your own patterns for. Here’s one I made it’s a sail boat then give it a quarter turn and it’s an anchor. The possibility are endless. 

[CharleyL]

Nobody suggested blade tension and this can also be the problem. When compound cutting you need very high blade tension. The blade cannot bow as you are cutting, and it will bow if the tension is not set high. On my Dewalt 788 I usually run about 4 out of the 5 max on the blade tension setting.

Bbe very careful not to put any side pressure on the work and apply just enough feeding pressure for the blade to cut. Tiny teeth don't cut very fast, and many expect scroll saws to cut as fast as other woodworking tools. Because of this, they push the wood into the blade way to hard.

If the wood is burning, like I can see in the photos, The blade is dull,or you are pushing the blade sideways, or the blade speed is too high. Slow down and concentrate on proper feeding. Scroll sawing is a journey, not a race to completion. Let the blade cut the wood and don't try to feed it harder than the blade teeth can cut the wood. I use a block of paraffin wax and apply it to all four sides of my running blade to lubricate the cut. I do this when changing to a new blade, when beginning the next piece, or whenever I think it might help. It reduces the chances of burning, makes the saw dust fall out of the blade teeth better, and in general just makes the cut go better.

Before each session I apply Johnson's Paste Wax to the saw table, let it sit until it gets a haze, and then wipe off the excess with a dry cloth or paper towel. This helps the parts slide around on the table with less friction making movement of the piece much easier. I've never had a project finishing problem because I've waxed the blade and table. I paste wax all of the tables on my tools and even lubricate the ways and slides with it. Saw dust doesn't stick to the wax after it develops a hard surface coating. Petroleum greases collect saw dust constantly and make a huge mess over time.

Get rid of the 2 X 4 pine and try some poplar, at least until you figure out how to run the saw. When you do cut pine, look for wood that does not have significant grain lines. As others have said, the blade will deflect as you go from soft to hard to soft areas of the wood making it harder to follow the line. With experience, you will be able to reduce this when you really want to cut pine, but for now don't try to work with it while you are still learning, because it's too hard for you to know what is causing your problems unless you have the experience to know what is happening. 

Also try to rest your palms on the saw table and just move your fingers to feed and steer the wood. I think you will discover that you can follow the lines much better this way. You can't maintain the proper feeding pressure or steer the wood when trying to push using your whole arms and elbows. Of course you can't always keep your palms on the table because sometimes it takes more effort or larger movements, but get yourself into the habit of just using your fingers for feeding and steering, and I think you will do much better. My students improve quickly once I get them to do this.

Charley

 

 

Edited January 17, 2019 by CharleyL

[Foxfold]

5 hours ago, CharleyL said:

My students improve quickly once I get them to do this.

Thank you Charley, I will re-read this many times to get it firmly in my head. Your help is much appreciated.

[Foxfold]

6 hours ago, jollyred said:

Steve Good's site has a link to a recording of the sound of a properly tensioned blade, listen to this to hear what I'm saying.

Thank you for your help, I'll go and find the link and carefully listen x

[Foxfold]

7 hours ago, meflick said:

here is thread I was referring to with great info. And help on compound cutting.

Thanks Melanie, I'll definitely read this thread, I never knew about it as it was written before I even knew what a scrollsaw was

[Foxfold]

10 hours ago, dgman said:

The blade that works for me is a FD Polor #5 or #7.

it is important to have your wood blank completely square.

 I have seen your work and you are progressing very nicely. Don’t give up! I know you can do it!

Ooh I have some of those on my shelf, I just didn't know what they were

I don't think my wood was square as I felt it 'jiggle' but will make sure next time.

Thank you so much for your kind words, I shan't give up, I'm just a little discouraged.

 

 

[Foxfold]

10 hours ago, fredfret said:

Having a large front to back alignment can cause problems. To test for square use,a piece of thick wood cut into it about 1/4inch bacteria out turn the board over and align the cut with the blade if it goes in easy blade is square to the table if not adjust about half of the error out and repeat the process. 

I will definitely try this thank you. However I'll leave out the 'bacteria' if you don't mind.  Predictive text has a lot to answer for xx

[Foxfold]

@JimErn,  Thank you, I will re-read your advice and go through the points one by one and with luck I should be able to cut this stuff properly.  Much Appreciated

[Foxfold]

11 hours ago, Scrappile said:

I'd say, some side ways pressure and wrong blade.  Move up to an aggressive #5 blade, no reverse teeth.  If you have something besides pine would help also.  That would be my, guy with little experience, so take it for what it is worth, advice.

Thanks Paul, your advice is always gratefully received. xx

[Sycamore67]

2 hours ago, Foxfold said:

Ooh I have some of those on my shelf, I just didn't know what they were .

I think it would be worthwhile for those new to the scrollsaw to take some of the different blades side by side to learn the differences.  The FD Polar are skip tooth with larger teeth.  Those and other skip tooth blades are good for thicker woods.

[Rolf]

Your wood choice is also important. If you are using a 2x4 pine, spruce the grain density variation will give you fits. The blade will naturally track along the soft parts.  Not saying you can't cut it but it will add another challenge.