What changes would you like to see

[hotshot]

1 minute ago, kmmcrafts said:

That must be the craftsman version I bought.. that didn't work.. as that was a selling point for me being the novice at the time.. I liked that built in angle gauge for some reason, LOL 

[kmmcrafts]

That's the one, LOL

[SCROLLSAW703]

42 minutes ago, hotshot said:

hmmmm, created dupe post, why oh why can we not delete a post . . . now there is a suggestion

 

Ya know Hot Shot, that's a question I've often asked myself about several posts. Mr. JT, nice try at your joke, Sir. But I certainly understand.

It's no secret the reproduction rights for the CW - 40 have been bought ,sold and redesigned a few times, as well.

To be right honest, I came across the saw itself in a Home Depot in Denver several years ago. I had never heard of the saw myself at that time. I was still pretty green at scrollin'. The saw happened to be on sale right then, and like I said, not knowin' a thing about the saw, I started askin' questions about it, and it was reasonably enough priced, so I decided to invest in one. 

I've learned alot about the saw over the length of time I've owned it. After internet came to be, and our kids taught me how to use the internet, I started doin' some research on the saw and reading what few reviews were being posted about it, and most of them weren't good, to say the very least. I enjoyed my time with it, and still do when I work with it. 

You are correct though, the bottom blade holder is a bear to get at, but I don't reckon I see a breed on here that somebody don't have a gripe about. So, therefore, I learned to adapt & overcome the limitations of the saw, learned to use it well, and after a gazillion hours on it, it was time to update to a bigger saw.

My apologies gentlemen, that your posts weren't taken as meant. I reckon everyone looks at those things a little differently. 

Kevin, I refuse to say anything negative towards Craftsman, Sir. They may not outshine several breeds out there, but in my experience with the ones I own, they have done their job efficiently. I have heard several bad marks against them for bad switches, unable to tension blades, etc.. I'd like to find parts to rebuild the ol' single speed Craftsman I learned on, but I am beginning to think that is an impossibility. 

Sawdust703(brad)

[kmmcrafts]

36 minutes ago, SCROLLSAW703 said:

Ya know Hot Shot, that's a question I've often asked myself about several posts. Mr. JT, nice try at your joke, Sir. But I certainly understand.

It's no secret the reproduction rights for the CW - 40 have been bought ,sold and redesigned a few times, as well.

To be right honest, I came across the saw itself in a Home Depot in Denver several years ago. I had never heard of the saw myself at that time. I was still pretty green at scrollin'. The saw happened to be on sale right then, and like I said, not knowin' a thing about the saw, I started askin' questions about it, and it was reasonably enough priced, so I decided to invest in one. 

I've learned alot about the saw over the length of time I've owned it. After internet came to be, and our kids taught me how to use the internet, I started doin' some research on the saw and reading what few reviews were being posted about it, and most of them weren't good, to say the very least. I enjoyed my time with it, and still do when I work with it. 

You are correct though, the bottom blade holder is a bear to get at, but I don't reckon I see a breed on here that somebody don't have a gripe about. So, therefore, I learned to adapt & overcome the limitations of the saw, learned to use it well, and after a gazillion hours on it, it was time to update to a bigger saw.

My apologies gentlemen, that your posts weren't taken as meant. I reckon everyone looks at those things a little differently. 

Kevin, I refuse to say anything negative towards Craftsman, Sir. They may not outshine several breeds out there, but in my experience with the ones I own, they have done their job efficiently. I have heard several bad marks against them for bad switches, unable to tension blades, etc.. I'd like to find parts to rebuild the ol' single speed Craftsman I learned on, but I am beginning to think that is an impossibility. 

Sawdust703(brad)

I can't / or shouldn't probably say anything negative about it because quite frankly.. I never gave the saw a chance.. after unboxing it and not having the VS dial change anything.. the thing about vibrated off the bench before I could get it shut down.. But.. that being my fault for not mounting it.. being somewhat new to the scroll saw world I didn't know they really needed mounted or clamped down.. I had used my fathers old Delta 2 speed saw model 40-560 type 2.. he never mounted or clamped it.. and neither did I. that was one smooth running machine.. still have it too.. just as with most old saws... parts are no longer available.. but anyway.. going from that saw to one that right out of the box didn't work correctly and vibrated bad I took it right back.. same day... and rather than exchange it.. I just took cash back and bought the Dremel.. There was and still is nothing wrong with the that old Delta.. but back then.. I thought I needed a saw with variable speed... turns out... I rarely take any saw I have or had off full speed or at least very close to that.. Guess I sort of just learned the two speeds of that one saw.. as those seem to be about the same speeds if and when I do slow a saw down would be about the same as the low speed on that old Delta..    

[SCROLLSAW703]

I was in the same boots you were, Mr. Kevin. I was still scrollin' on that single speed Craftsman sitttin' on a bench I built in our pantry in the basement. The bench would have been perfect size if you were a midget, but at the time, I was still truckin' & just 48 hours at home, and dispatch rang my phone. Then I was out another 6 wks - 2 months. 

That single speed Craftsman ran so smooth once I got the ol' gal figured out, I couldn't believe it! And the projects My Bride and Ma come up with for me to create on that saw was crazy, but I did it! 

I guess it comes down to the difference between buyin' a Peterbilt and a Freightliner, ya understand. What do ya want? Class and an easy ride? Or an ugly damn ride that'll shake yer teeth out, and leak air from every direction in the cab! My personal choice is the Peterbilt, folks! I have run to many miles in them, lived in them to many years, and know how they think. 

You all might think this ol' jaybird done fell out of my tree by now, but personally, in over 25 years of scrollin', there is more to it than just the breed of the SAW itself. Gettin' to know and understand the machine itself, how it works, what it is capable of doin' or not doin' for ME, not to brag about it to you folks. And to be honest, I ain't got enough friends that'll listen here at home, so no point in wastin' time on that. 

My point is, I reckon, I weren't tryin' to set fire to anybody's outhouse for cryin' out loud. I was just thinkin' out loud, so to speak. Mr. JT, I caught the drift of your joke, my friend, and I understand it. You bein' the Historian type feller here though, honestly, I did expect a more creative comment from ya, Sir. Hot Shot, brother, my apologies for not takin' the heat the way you thought I should have. That is part of the reason I don't post much anymore. 

Sawdust703(brad)

[hotshot]

23 hours ago, SCROLLSAW703 said:

. . . . . Sir. Hot Shot, brother, my apologies for not takin' the heat the way you thought I should have. That is part of the reason I don't post much anymore.  . . . . 

Sawdust703(brad)

Hey Brad, I think you must have misunderstood something I said.  I didn't say anything critical of you at all and consider you a friend.  I was just enjoying the memories of my first CW40 and the similar pcb370 saw that I learned on.  I did create an "extra/dupe" post accidentally, and couldn't delete it, but that was nothing to do with you or any of your posts.  Sorry if something I said came across differently than I intended.

Edited January 23, 2019 by hotshot

[SCROLLSAW703]

Ok. No Problem, Randy. I'm good, brother. We're on the same page. I don't have all the history you do about the CW - 40, but I enjoy usin' the ol' gal! She's a little temperamental at times, but we get it figured out!;)

Sawdust703(brad)

[Scrappile]

You guys talk of the CW-40, which I never heard of until I read this thread.  Then I look at scroll saws for sale in my state and there is a CW-40, I think, for sale.  They do not say CW-40 but it looks like the pictures I have seen recently.

[SCROLLSAW703]

Scrappile, 

the CW - 40 sold new with it's own stand out of the box, or mine did, anyway, and the few I have seen for sale have their own stand.

The parts availability for them is good. I have even seen on a couple parts sites where the motherboard is available, too. That is part of the reason the saw went obsolete, according to what I have read, is the issues with the motherboard burning up for one, parts availability at the time, and, imo, the saw table is entirely too small to handle a project of a large size. One thing that stood out to me when I was first looking at it was the cast iron table. I would much rather have a cast iron table than cast aluminum.      

Along side of that, the bottom blade holder is a bear to get at fer changin' blades, and several folks complained about that. It uses pin type or plain blades.

Enjoy your day, Sir!

Sawdust703(brad)

[MTCowpoke22]

Along with Dust collection, the only thing I'd add to the Jet is a zero clearance table insert.

[Scrappile]

I was thinking about this, no stationary tool I have actually provides dust collection, well, except for my dust collector.  They all, including my scroll saws, provide ports or some means to hook up to a dust collector.  Me thinks you all want too much.......  oh, now I am in trouble! ,

Edited January 24, 2019 by Scrappile

[kmmcrafts]

20 minutes ago, Scrappile said:

I was thinking about this, no stationary tool I have actually provides dust collection, well, except for my dust collector.  They all, including my scroll saws, provide ports or some means to hook up to a dust collector.  Me thinks you want too much.......  oh, now I am in trouble! ,

A lot of saws come with a dust port.. My old Dremel did.. My excalibur does.. I think Hegner too? I do think that a onboard system probably is asking too much BUT.. the dust port these saws have are either an annoyance or work marginal at best... They could design something better.. they know the port they put on them is more for a attractive selling feature instead of a good functional piece.. I do think they could offer upgrades to an onboard vac system if they'd take the time to design something that would work.. Seyco does offer this vac system...and I've heard it works quite well.. quiet too.. I've really considered this and almost pulled the trigger a few times, LOL

http://seyco.com/dv-10a-cyclonic-action-scroll-saw-dust-collector/ 

[SCROLLSAW703]

I agree, Mr. Scrappile, 100%, Sir! For all practical purposes, none of my scroll saws but the Craftsman have dust collection ports. A few of my other newer saws and tools have dust ports, and I use my shop vac on them if I use them for an extended amount of time, but otherwise, I personally think it's a waste of time. 

Especially on a scroll saw, imo. Seriously. I agree, our lungs are a precious item, but no more dust than really comes off the scroll saw, wouldn't it be just as easy to wear a dust mask if you're that concerned about dust control?

There are limitations to our expectations of the manufacturer. And this is something to keep in mind when you think about changes to your equipment. For every design change, the dollar figure changes. Usually higher. Maybe some of ya with a little more jingle in your pockets can stand the price increase, but on the flip side of the coin, there are those of us that can't. True, this is "just a hobby," but for some, a very serious hobby. 

That's all I have to say about that, I reckon.

sawdust703(brad) 

[JimErn]

I can not see that a built in dust collection system is that hard to design.

In my view I am not real interested in picking up fret work, dust is my issue.  And to pick up dust the opening of the vacuum tube only has to be in the approximate area.

I have an ex-21 so with that in mind, replace the present upper arm tubing with a larger diameter tube, and run a connecting tube inside the upper arm to under the table, where it joins a manifold.

From that manifold another tube goes to the bottom clamp, wider mouth, but not directly underneath, next to it.

Your vacuum hose plugs into the manifold

[bcdennis]

On my Ex I would improve the dust collector.  For my Jet I like its Dust collection and my quiet Fein Shop vac fits the saw great, however, the noise caused by the suction is louder than both the saw and the Shop Vac.  So much so that I must wear earphones.  I need to find a fix for that. 

[Scrappile]

Just now, bcdennis said:

On my Ex I would improve the dust collector.  For my Jet I like its Dust collection and my quiet Fein Shop vac fits the saw great, however, the noise caused by the suction is louder than both the saw and the Shop Vac.  So much so that I must wear earphones.  I need to find a fix for that. 

Same thing with my dust collection setup.  The suction noise is annoying.  I am wondering if a larger opening at the end that sucks the dust would help.  Problem is I don't want to quit working projects long enough to play with it to find out!

[bcdennis]

13 minutes ago, Scrappile said:

Same thing with my dust collection setup.  The suction noise is annoying.  I am wondering if a larger opening at the end that sucks the dust would help.  Problem is I don't want to quit working projects long enough to play with it to find out!

I've thought about drilling a larger hole near the intake to see if that would relieve some pressure and noise  Kind of worried it might make it worse though.. 

[OCtoolguy]

Regarding the question of dust control, I didn't add it to either of my saws for the health reasons. I just wanted a way to keep the flying dust down so the my shop stays a bit cleaner. I do wear a dust mask most of the time. At least when I remember to put it on.

As to dust control built into the saws, those manufacturers who actually produce their saws like Hegner and Bushton/Hawk etc, why don't they design something that is an add-on to their product and offer it as such? I realize that building it into the saw increases the cost and the retail price. So, offer it as an add-on item and let the owner of the saw decide if they want to purchase it. No different than what the folks at ScrollNado have done. If we owners can come up with some sort of piping to keep the dust down, I'm sure the saw builders can do it too and probably come up with something better and maybe even quieter. Thanks for listening.

 

[kmmcrafts]

On 1/25/2019 at 10:34 AM, Scrappile said:

Same thing with my dust collection setup.  The suction noise is annoying.  I am wondering if a larger opening at the end that sucks the dust would help.  Problem is I don't want to quit working projects long enough to play with it to find out!

Basically why I haven't built a dust collection system yet.. I do run the vac on my Excalibur by just hooking up the shop vac to the existing port.. just having a dust port sure helps a lot.. I know many do not like the EX set up.. I'm sure it could be improved...  but it does work... Now... I just need to take the time to build up my own system.. maybe when warm weather comes back. LOL

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Ray you bring up a logical answer but it is the old question why have not the manufacturers used their engineers to design something built into their saws. They could make the arms a passage way. They could incorporate it in the table top and just make a thicker table and use it as a passage way. To me this is the most logical way to do it because it will capture dust at the best possible place (the source both top and bottom. ). You hollow out the table and make the opening around the blade a port all around it. Aluminum today is so light weight.  They can attach some sort of piping under the table with funnels that not only can you use a shop vac but like all tools that have a system pipe into a central dust collector system. All this is not hard to do. It is the one true change that all saws on the market can stand to market from. It is a health issue that if we do not do something on our own it becomes a problem down the road as we get up in years. I do not vac the dust but always wear a dust mask. But I wear a dust mask just about all the time in the shop. I do have an air cleaner that I use along with a shop dust collector system that captures the large particles but never the small dust. 

[Scrappile]

People balk at paying $500+ for a scroll saw.  It they add what you all want, a cheap saw will start at that price, the middle price saws will be close to Hegner,  Hawk prices and who knows what Hegner and Hawk will cost.  It is not expensive to add good dust extraction, PVC pipe is cheap.  Personally I'd rather add my own.  It works good and did not cost me much other that the vac and I need a vac in the shop anyway, so the cost for it doesn't count.

My dust collector, as most has 4" hoses, and to neck that down to a 2" or smaller, it does not work to good.  I know I tried it.  It is made for 4" pipe.  Okay I do not know a lot about dust collectors so maybe there is a way to do it.  I'm just saying on a scroll saw,,,, you want to pay more for them?? 

What the manufactures make available is what they think will sell and they will make a profit.  For all but maybe Hawk, Hegner, and PS, it is not a big ticket item. They sell lots more of there other equipment.  In the great world of wood tools,,, scroll saw it not a big selling item... we are the minority in the wood working world.  Just my opinion.

Edited January 27, 2019 by Scrappile

[Rockytime]

My dust collection is 4". Adapters down to 2" are available from Woodcraft and Rocklers and many other sources I would think.They are not expensive. I have three gates. One to my scroll saw, one to my lathe and another that I can use on the router and the small HF band saw. My DC is the cheapie from HF. Nothing fancy. Easy to install and effective.

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

I have a few tools choked down to 2" and no problem with my dust collector. As I said cost would increase but that cost could be across the board all saws and you will not see a difference. All add-ons can be done by individuals for sure but there is no one add-on that can be universal to all scrollsaws on the market than a good dust collector system. Not one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Will it happen, never say never but highly doubt it. Won't be on my saw. 

[OCtoolguy]

20 hours ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

Ray you bring up a logical answer but it is the old question why have not the manufacturers used their engineers to design something built into their saws. They could make the arms a passage way. They could incorporate it in the table top and just make a thicker table and use it as a passage way. To me this is the most logical way to do it because it will capture dust at the best possible place (the source both top and bottom. ). You hollow out the table and make the opening around the blade a port all around it. Aluminum today is so light weight.  They can attach some sort of piping under the table with funnels that not only can you use a shop vac but like all tools that have a system pipe into a central dust collector system. All this is not hard to do. It is the one true change that all saws on the market can stand to market from. It is a health issue that if we do not do something on our own it becomes a problem down the road as we get up in years. I do not vac the dust but always wear a dust mask. But I wear a dust mask just about all the time in the shop. I do have an air cleaner that I use along with a shop dust collector system that captures the large particles but never the small dust. 

JT, you have read my mind. My suggestion was only to keep the overall cost to the buyer down. Make whatever optional equipment just that. Let the user decide on what they want to buy. Me, I'd opt to buy the saw with the system incorporated as you suggest but some folks, obviously, are cost conscious and would rather buy and entry-level saw than to spend the money on a better tool. I very seldom buy new. I always look around for something that is lightly used. So far, I've been very lucky. But, if Excalibur was to bring out a saw as you say, knowing now what I know about their product, I'd probably have to step up and buy one with the dust system already built in.

 

Edited January 27, 2019 by octoolguy

[kmmcrafts]

I'm guessing most folks wouldn't buy the dust system.. so therefore the cost of the designing making a deal with some vac company to make the specialized vac that could be mounted to the saw frame etc etc.. this would be why they don't do such a thing.. Ray at seyco has the one dust vac that can be set up as a onboard system.. and can be set up with any saw.. I really contemplate getting one of those.. I like the idea it's not another thing setting on the floor.. even though I'm not terribly concerned about space saving.. I still have practical space saving in my mind from working in my old small shop... so I just think this system is a nice feature.. not sure how well it works... never seen any complaints ... have seen a couple reviews on it..