Don't buy reverse spiral blades !

[Xray]

What junk, I am appalled that anyone would market such non functional crap.

 

Got a load of FD reverse spiral blades in the other day, and was eagerly anticipating working wonders with them.

These are heavily flawed, I would not recommend them to my worse enemy.

Here is what is wrong with them:

* They take a much bigger bite, making them useless for any amount of detail. Projects that I easily completed with standard #1 spiral blades, out of the question for reverse #1 spiral blades.

No detail at all. I could easily stay within a thin project line with standard blades, not so with reverse, looked like a dang trench they were carving.

The only blade I found usable for detail where the ,, What are they called, 2.0's or something like that ?

They are smaller than 1's, but junk as well, read on.

* They only want to cut when you are pushing material away from you. Come towards you, go left or right, and they bog right down. They start cutting a larger line, you can actually hear the machine work harder, you have to push harder to get the material to even move ,,, And the end result is wasted time, terrible loss of accuracy, broken blades and frustration.

This ludicrous flaw, of course, spoils the whole concept of a spiral blade, which are supposed to be happy cutting in any direction.

Standard spirals, that it true, not reverse. Their design only wants to cut 1 way, so you are reduced to either slowing down your work and taking the loss of accuracy, or turning the material around as you would with a standard blade.

What a joke, thats not all.

* Its very difficult to get a bite with them. When turning a corner, the blade flops around and skips, forcing you to back up a bit and try to create a new channel for them.

[Yes, the blade was properly tensioned]. End result of all that is nasty looking stop/start marks all over the place, which have to be sanded out.

 

Complete junk folks, whoever is marketing these things ought to be slapped.

The worse part is, if a complete noob starts out with these things, hearing how great they are supposed to be, they are going to think that scrolling is nothing but endless frustration & wased time, and put their machine on craiglist after 2 weeks.

The single + I can say about them is yes, they do greatly reduce back tearout - I'll take those fuzzies any day over these defective tools.

I got 4 dozen of them, they are going straight into the garbage.

 

Sorry for the rant, I was getting madder & madder at these things by the minute, and a 20 minute project to over an hour.

Here is what I made with a reverse spiral, first and only project with them.

I stack cut 4, and I have done dozens of this same type of design with various subjects in the feather. Eagle, a wolf, now a babe.

You might say it looks Ok, but you have no idea the nightmare this simple little project was because of the reverse tooth spiral.

I found out rather quick how crappy they are, and the only reason why I had to continue to use it was because of the fine detail of the hair, shoes and feather tips, they were the only blades I had small enough to do the job.

Took me half an hour + to cut, twice as long as a standard blade.

I had to keep stopping to turn it around ,,, And spent another 15 minutes sanding out the stop marks on just one of them, to say nothing of the other 3, which I might as well just toss in my firewood bucket.

Needless to say, I have ordered some standard spirals, and they can't get here soon enough.

[amazingkevin]

Hi Xray,Could i have your spirals for xmas,i'm allmost out of them.I fell in love with them recently.I have never tryed stack cutting with them as they are sensitive to any movement.I am amazed at the responce of them cutting thin stock1/4" or less.I swore against them for 4 years and now found ,thru a member the trick to useing them.I don't think they would be good for stack cutting but really don't know haveing not tryed it.I do extremely large projects with the spirals as there is no other blade that will allow me to do projects 36"x36".Don't give up the ship yet.

[grampa]

I take it you don't like them........

[Travis]

Spiral blades are a tricky matter. Some people love them, other hate them. I really like them in certain situations. I use them mostly for portraits. It works really well for organic/curvy lines. I don't use them on patterns that have a lot of straight lines, or crisp corners. Heavily grained woods don't work well either because the blade has a tendency to follow the grain. Stack cutting works, but you have to be careful since you have to push the work into the blade a bit. You're more likely to flex the blade which will throw off the cuts on the bottom of the stack.

 

Its true they have a bigger kerf than straight blades. Basically a spiral blade is a straight blade that has been twisted. So your kerf size is the same size as the depth of the blade. The term "reverse" refers to the tooth configuration. Just like a straight blade, a reverse blade has teeth pointing the opposite direction at the top and bottom of the blade. This reduces the fuzzies (it certainly doesn't eliminate them).

 

You might want to give them a try on a portrait style cutting (not stack cut) with a lot of organic/curvy lines and see if you change your mind. If not, I'm sure lots of folks would love to have your blades in stead of throwing them in the trash.

[Xray]

Please understand, this is not a slam against "spiral blades".

I use them, and love them, and have made what I consider to be some outstanding projects with them.

Below is my 1st spiral project, it was a joy to do. Painstaking detail, I consider it a success and worth the effort.

Any mistake or shortcomings were mine, and not the tools ,,, So I do have a bit of experience with spirals.

 

This is specifically against "reverse spiral blades", as per the title of this thread.

I have tried them on a variety of wood, a variety of thickness, with the same terrible results.

There are 2 possibilities here:

* I received a flawed batch with a manufacturing defect

* Reverse spirals are, for whatever reason, a flawed concept, and should not be sold

Since I got 4 dozen, I'm leaning towards the 2nd.

 

Its not a matter of "practice with them more, you'll love them once you master them!".

They will only effectively cut in 1 direction, and thats pushing the material away from you.

Any other direction and they bog right down to a near stop, at that point you have to stop and turn the wood so that you can be going in the direction they like.

So you might as well have not even used a spiral in the first place if you have to turn the wood to use them.

 

Kevin, I'll dig them out of the trash and send them along, be advised - This is not a favor.

This is against my better judgment to do ,, If I had a hammer with a head ready to fly off, or a ratchet wrench with stripped gears, the last thing

I'd do is give the problem to someone else.

A flawed tool should be fixed, or taken permanently out of circulation.

But owing to your touching PM, I'll send them on 1 condition - You promise not to to curse me in open forum after you use them.

[amazingkevin]

Great ,. i second the motion.My word is my bond!Thank you santa for the only gift i will receive this and last year.Please stop by my house first this xmas I'll be the one with open arms for the spirals.Just push them under the yellow saw that fell out of your sleigh would be kind enough.Park on the roof if you like as the parking lot is allways full.Try not to wake the wife cause if she see's you with the yellow saw .i'm in trouble.I'll leave alfalfa sprouts on the roof so the reindeer will find the right house.P.s. help your self to the cookies and milk !

[sullyscroller]

Hey Xray thanks for the advice on reverse spirals as i was close to sending off for some , ive used standard spirals and they work good where they are designed for. I'm curious if any other long time scrollers have tried specificaly the rev. spirals & what they think of them for stack potrait cutting which is 75 % of what i do. I want to do larger pieces than my 16 " saw will allow and spirals are the only way besides a bigger saw . Thanks for all the great tips and advice to everyone.

[Xray]

I'm curious also for other observations, surely I cannot be the only one.

Then again, they are not widely available and haven't been on the market very long.

 

I was very disgusted when I posted yesterday, I guess it showed.

I really can't think of anything in my technique or experience level that can be causing these problems.

I have happily used standard spirals, they have their limits like anything else, but their ability to cut in any direction allows you

to do things that simply would not be possible with a standard blade ... So, I was very much looking forward to cutting in any direction, minus

the back tearout which spirals are known to cause.

I tried 3 different sizes of reverse, 2 different kinds of wood with varying thickness, from 1/4 to 1', and they handled just the same.

Would only cut in 1 direction, and they were anything but precise.

I had to constantly stop to turn the piece around. When turning a corner or a V I would just, with much effort, cut a little notch in the new direction, stop the machine, turn the material around, then

start again, all so I could go in the direction it would cut. All of this left nasty start/stop marks all over the place. I could quite literally feel and hear the machine itself work harder when I went in any direction but away from me, the pitch would change and the vibration would increase ,,, And I snapped a few blades before I was finally convinced that the design of these things are simply flawed.

I would like to be proven wrong, and told what to do to get these things to perform as advertised ,,, Or find out that I just have a

factory reject batch. I don't see that in the cards, I have been a union carpenter for over 10 years, and I know a defective tool when I use one.

Kevin should be able to confirm or deny my allegations within a week or so.

[amazingkevin]

I have a possum grin and am rubbing my hands as if cold antisapating arrival of the gold your offering.I'm going to rip tear and cross cut all the wood i can to put them to the wood butcher test by me.I can destroy a scroll saw in record time and i'd like to meet my match with these baracuda blades you found.These poor blades will get a through work out believe you me.I have stacks of pattern ready to rip into i just need blades and spirals fit the picture.Mule train,snail mail,pack horse it don't matter .You can't kick a gift horse in the kazoo!I am ichin to tighten these baby's up and make some saw dust.Whoa, i teeming with excitement at all the fun i'm going to have working these blades for all they got.I'll push them to the limits ,no backin down.GOT WOOD no blades .there's ash ,walnut,oak,hickory just waiting .i like to see smoke when i'm scrolling.Bring it on.If these are from mikes i'm in trouble .In 4 years of scrollin i've had zero complaints.Well maybe two,They are too sharp and don't break !

[Xray]

Well, if you like non functional tools to hamper your productivity & accuracy, these are just what the doctor ordered.

Maybe scrolling has become to routine, tedious and predictable ,,, What could be better than to have a go at it with a defective blade ??

Now thats a challenge, by cracky - Real men don't need spiral blades that actually cut !

 

Got these off ebay ,,, Can't blame the seller, but I think I'll send a note asking if he has actually ever used them.

[amazingkevin]

The spirals i've used are flat ends #3 ,48t.p.i. -same but #5 36, t.p.i. -new spirals FD-NS #3, 27 t.p.i. -spiral reverse FD-SP-REV,#5 34teeth,t.p.i.-12 rev-, FD-SP, rev,#3,40tpi.12 rev and some delta ones that came in a variety pack from the big box store 4 years ago and never used them till now.

[tugbtr1]

If i might make a sugestion im sure Mike would send a couple of reverse spirals to someone who wanted to give them a try i was thinking about asking when i reorder my next batch of spirals i think they are wonderful but havent tried the reverse spirals yet just a thought everything i have cut is been with a spiral the only problem i have is when i dont pay attention and put the blades in upside down duh... lol and i dont like to pound out the ends to make it flat but my next order will be the flat end spirals

Marc

[FD Mike]

I have no idea why he has so much trouble with the spiral rev. I have not heard from anyone else. I hope you did not have it uo-site down.

If you send me your address I am glad to send you an other dozen to try.

It is the same blade as a regular spiral just that they have reverse teeth and the flat end spiral is also the same as the regular spiral. They all have the same problem that they want to go to the soft spots in the wood and sometimes hard to control. That was the reason the company came out with a new spiral blade. The tooth design is completely different it makes the blade to cut straight easier and thjerfor easier to control. This new spiral out-sells the other 3 spirals combined.

FD Mike

[amazingkevin]

On the spirals i slide it through my finger tips to find out which way has the most pull and put that side down.My eye's are bad and that works for me!

[Xray]

Mike, didn't get them from you, and I'm not casting stones at any sellers.

Then again, I'm slamming a product you sell and I can see how that may concern you.

The only thing I can think of is maybe my machine is out of whack, doesn't seem out of square.

All I can say is I have used standard spirals with no problems, reverse were a nightmare.

I use the same method a kev finding blade direction.

If no one else is complaining though, it must just be me or my machine.

Never squared it since I have had it, I'll have to look into that.

It is square with a credit card, and a notch I cut will go through the back ,,, Not sure what else to try.

 

kev, am a bit late on sending these due to forum being down, I'll try to get them out to you ASAP.

[amazingkevin]

Thanks Jessie xmas is allmost here.The credit card square is agood idea,i use what ever is closest!

[FD Mike]

Xray, I am glad to send you a sampel of the SP-Rev if you tell me your address and size. All spirals are made from flat blades. They are heated so they can twist them. After that they are cooled in oil to get the hardness. The Spiral with rev. teeth are made from a flat blade whit reverse teeth.

The easiest way to squire the blade to the tabel is to cut about 1/16" in the out side of what you want to cut. Then turn it to the back and she if it fits in the back of the blade.

I forgot to tell you about the FD-NS blades. They are now out selling the other 3 combined. They have two teeth down and one up. They are a lot easier to control. They are made from the FD-UR blades and they have reverse teeth.

FD Mike

[Xray]

Mike, I did in fact order some blades from you this week, so I'm all set for now.

I do have a question about the order, I'll send that to you via email.

I don't know what to make of this, if others don't complain, it must just be me and/or my machine.

I'd have to advise people not to take my rant too seriously, and try for themselves.

[Xray]

A little update.

I think something is wrong with my saw.

Standard spirals are doing the same thing now ,,, Not nearly as bad as it was with the reverse, but they are showing the same negative symptoms.

They only want to cut up and left, they bog out going down or right.

I could live with just bogging down, but they also start to cut a channel twice as large as it should be, that I can't live with.

I tried tightening screws and oiling things up, didn't help, not sure what else I can do.

This is destroying my accuracy, and greatly inhibiting my ability to do intricate cuts, so I either gotta find out what the problem is, or get a new saw.