Drill press/drill bit question

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

1 hour ago, SCROLLSAW703 said:

It appears Mr. Kevin nailed it, JT. With or without my input. Just so we're on the same page, I read all of Ray's posts several times, Mr. JT. I set up my press exactly the same way Ray said his was. Every step he describes. I also took a measurement of the jaws protruding with the 1/16" bit installed. My measurements were well over 1/4" just to get down to hold that bit.

If it makes ya feel any better JT, I also measured the length of the bit after I drilled a couple times in 1 1/2" material, & the bit had not slipped or moved in the jaws of my press. And yes, with about a 1/2" or less of the shank of the bit it the jaws & tightened, it is possible to drill thru 1 1/2" material with the travel of 2", no sacrificial board, and the bit set as Mr. Ray described. 

With or without bein' polite about it, JT, yer buckets' got a hole in it & losin' water fast. There are to many others in agreement about bit length or possible slippage, JT.

Sawdust703(brad)

 

Say whatever you want Brad there will be no changing your mind you are right all are right and travel has nothing to do with his problem I am wrong as I always am Every answer I ever gave is wrong so do not listen to what I say I have a bucket full of holes You are right BRAD as always SIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sycamore67]

I am totally confused about the problem and the description or what.  I think that a much clearer description by the OP would be useful as well as PICTURES of the problem.

The first step to a solution is an accurate description of the problem and appears that might be missing based upon the OP last post.  (Seems like this is familiar.)

Please post pictures of the drill press with the bit, the block of wood and anything else pertinent so we can help you.

 

[kmmcrafts]

6 minutes ago, Sycamore67 said:

I am totally confused about the problem and the description or what.  I think that a much clearer description by the OP would be useful as well as PICTURES of the problem.

The first step to a solution is an accurate description of the problem and appears that might be missing based upon the OP last post.  (Seems like this is familiar.)

Please post pictures of the drill press with the bit, the block of wood and anything else pertinent so we can help you.

 

I don't know how it can get any clearer than this..

Quote

the jaws of the chuck would contact the wood before the drill bit exited the back side of the wood

I might have an advantage on the subject though... because.. Ray and I both have the same drill press... and for me personally with the bits I have that are 1/16"... I've never had a bit that size that would drill that deep without this issue.. the smaller the bit. the more the chuck jaws protrude.. so.. basically the bit he is using is too short.. yeah it might measure to be a 2" bit unchucked but once in the chuck and the chuck jaws protruding out.. I really think the problem is too short of a bit.. because I have the same press... But not sure.. maybe he has a bit longer than I've ever had... I don't have this issue anymore since I bought a mini chuck for small bits..

So anyway, in a nut shell, I knew exactly what he was saying because... I've been there done that with my press which is just like his..

 

[kmmcrafts]

59 minutes ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

Say whatever you want Brad there will be no changing your mind you are right all are right and travel has nothing to do with his problem I am wrong as I always am Every answer I ever gave is wrong so do not listen to what I say I have a bucket full of holes You are right BRAD as always SIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

JT, You're not always wrong.. you always give wonderful advice and I think I can speak for all of us here on the village we value your years of experience..

Now.. also should clarify too.. you're not always right either... But nether are any of us.. as we all are human so take it easy on yourself..

[Wichman]

Maybe, just maybe the problem is that the drill bit is flexing while drilling so that the bit is not 90 degrees in the hole, which would mean that the length of the bit isn't enough with the additional angle. So, with that said:

 

What material are you drilling through? I was drilling pine, near a knot, with a small bit and it would not drill straight, the drill ibt would curve away from the hard knot.

What type of drill bit are you using, i.e. HSS, carbon steel, alloy, titanium oxide coated, etc? Cobalt drill bits are the stiffest I've found.

What speed are you using, when I use small bits I crank the speed up to max.

[OCtoolguy]

2 minutes ago, Wichman said:

Maybe, just maybe the problem is that the drill bit is flexing while drilling so that the bit is not 90 degrees in the hole, which would mean that the length of the bit isn't enough with the additional angle. So, with that said:

 

What material are you drilling through? I was drilling pine, near a knot, with a small bit and it would not drill straight, the drill ibt would curve away from the hard knot.

What type of drill bit are you using, i.e. HSS, carbon steel, alloy, titanium oxide coated, etc? Cobalt drill bits are the stiffest I've found.

What speed are you using, when I use small bits I crank the speed up to max.

I was drilling in douglas fir that was a  2 x 4 in it's previous life. The bit I'm using is cobalt and I seriously believe that for it to flex that amount would cause it to snap first. Thanks for your suggestion. I think I have figured out what my problem is after reading all the info above. I feel pretty silly to have even had to post the question but it was late in the day and I was pretty frustrated at not being able to figure it out myself. 

[Wichman]

9 minutes ago, octoolguy said:

I was drilling in douglas fir that was a  2 x 4 in it's previous life. The bit I'm using is cobalt and I seriously believe that for it to flex that amount would cause it to snap first. Thanks for your suggestion. I think I have figured out what my problem is after reading all the info above. I feel pretty silly to have even had to post the question but it was late in the day and I was pretty frustrated at not being able to figure it out myself. 

I had some really cheap carbon steel drill bits, I could bend them 90 degrees without them breaking. They didn't flex they bent and stayed bent until I straightened them with vise grips and continued to drill.

[OCtoolguy]

7 minutes ago, Wichman said:

I had some really cheap carbon steel drill bits, I could bend them 90 degrees without them breaking. They didn't flex they bent and stayed bent until I straightened them with vise grips and continued to drill.

Really cheap!

 

[Sycamore67]

39 minutes ago, octoolguy said:

I think I have figured out what my problem is after reading all the info above. I feel pretty silly to have even had to post the question but it was late in the day and I was pretty frustrated at not being able to figure it out myself. 

I think that after all the posts and time people have spent trying to help you, it would be nice if you would provide an explanation of what you figured out.  Perhaps, with a picture so we could all learn something.

[OCtoolguy]

1 minute ago, Sycamore67 said:

I think that after all the posts and time people have spent trying to help you, it would be nice if you would provide an explanation of what you figured out.  Perhaps, with a picture so we could all learn something.

I will do that once I've got it done. Right now, it's raining cats and dogs outside and I'm not going out in it. Thanks for your interest though.

 

[dgman]

Come on Ray, you know it doesn’t rain here in So. Ca!!

[OCtoolguy]

12 minutes ago, dgman said:

Come on Ray, you know it doesn’t rain here in So. Ca!!

Dan, it was a monsoon all day here. I had to turn over our deck furniture to keep it from blowing away. My wife's hanging plants took it tough. Almost gone.

 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

5 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

JT, You're not always wrong.. you always give wonderful advice and I think I can speak for all of us here on the village we value your years of experience..

Now.. also should clarify too.. you're not always right either... But nether are any of us.. as we all are human so take it easy on yourself..

More wrong than right Kevin. But when all said and done if you and everyone else look back to my comments and you will read if the chuck jaws are hitting the wood the bit is either too short or is slipping. This is as common sense as there can be when using a drill press no matter what one you have. Said it about 3 times and even made a joke with it. Ray contradicted you when you mentioned it and that is when I suggested the travel thing. Go back and read from the beginning and take in your post too and see what he said to you. Then we have all the people setting up experiments like a lab or something. The most basic question gets blown to smithereens and again I stand behind every  word I said and advise I gave here. 

I do not mind being wrong and being brought to my attention but if people are too lazy to read then I have no control over that. I know what I am doing in my shop and know how to use every tool in my shop. 

[JimErn]

Now, it's a matter of having to hold the quill down, hold the table and unwind the table lock. I only have 2 hands and this task requires 3 or more

I put one of those small bungee cords on the base, wind down the quill and loop the bungee around the handle to hold it down, tada third hand

YMMV

[kmmcrafts]

I'm sure there are many ways to do this and not everyone will do it the same way..

My way, I loosen the table clamp and then grab the table.. raise up the table and hold with one hand.. use my other hand to lower the quill to match the table..hold the table let go of the handle to lower the quill and tighten the able clamp.. Now that all said... watch out for the table raising and up to the quill.. that bugger sometimes slides harder than other times and I've done it more than once where I was pulling up the table and it was moving a little hard then all of a sudden let loose comes up and smashes my drill bit busting it in half, LOL

Tips.. just like the scroll saw table top.. I wax the post that the table slides on so it goes up/ down easy and smooth... This helps a great deal.. That post on mine has some markings on it. just discolored marks from being abused before I got it.. but sometimes those little visual dings dents rust spot whatever it might be. for me.. I've grown to sort of know where the table spots I use the most are so I bring the table up close to where I think it would match the quill then I lower the quill down until i get them close enough to contact.. Takes some practice and sometimes some broken drill bits .. but I have it all down to muscle memory now and it just sort of comes natural..  Always said my next press will have the gear / crank to raise / lower the table.. I'm so used to using the table to adjust the depth of drilling that I doubt I'd ever use a quill depth stop ever...    

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Both my table top 12" Delta and Delta 16" floor model have a locking system on the crank handle and does not have that nut detent system. I use that to set depth or if I need to lower the quill and just lock in place. Has a little thumb wing to turn and is so easy to set. I use my drill press for so many projects so I am constantly changing drilling depths and as I said I always lower the forstner bit to the depth I want next to the piece and lock that ring. Very easy and accurate. Just like a router bit you do not bottom out a forstner bit in a chuck. So that setting can change each and every time you go to drill a clock insert out and having designated spacers may work for you but would never for me. Just the way we all do things differently but get to the same results.

If there is any people actually reading these things, one other tid bit of info that is a good practice to follow and this goes way back to when they use to use and some still do, use keyed chucks in drill motors. But it is prudent to tighten the chuck with the key in more than one hole to make sure the bit is centered in the chuck and all jaws have the same pressure applied. If not you run the risk of the bit slipping more easily and also can make the bit untrue when drilling and you will notice a wobble. 

Edited February 3, 2019 by JTTHECLOCKMAN

[munzieb]

Back in the day, I used  a lot of aviation bits. They were longer than usual. Because they were cheap, we would ground them down to fit the job. Check it out.

https://www.maxwarehouse.com/products/irwin-aircraft-drill-bit-hss-1-16-6-length-carded?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cse&utm_term=ACE-23698&msclkid=aa99927428e512321cdfce2304a2d24e

[OCtoolguy]

Thank you to all. I have done some very serious (LOL) experimentation on this subject and the long and SHORT of it is, the bits are too short. With that said, I ordered a mini drill chuck and I also found that Grizzly has a nice set of 6" length bits so I ordered those also. I think I will be able to now do what I set out to do the day before yesterday. Another thing that I found out is, there is a wealth of knowledge here on SSV but there are also way too many ways for folks to jerk each other's chains. So, I will have to be very careful what questions I pose in the future. I don't want to be the spark that ignites the flame and burn this house down. Once again, thank you to everybody for taking the time to read and reply to my predicament. 

 

 

[OCtoolguy]

2 hours ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

Both my table top 12" Delta and Delta 16" floor model have a locking system on the crank handle and does not have that nut detent system. I use that to set depth or if I need to lower the quill and just lock in place. Has a little thumb wing to turn and is so easy to set. I use my drill press for so many projects so I am constantly changing drilling depths and as I said I always lower the forstner bit to the depth I want next to the piece and lock that ring. Very easy and accurate. Just like a router bit you do not bottom out a forstner bit in a chuck. So that setting can change each and every time you go to drill a clock insert out and having designated spacers may work for you but would never for me. Just the way we all do things differently but get to the same results.

If there is any people actually reading these things, one other tid bit of info that is a good practice to follow and this goes way back to when they use to use and some still do, use keyed chucks in drill motors. But it is prudent to tighten the chuck with the key in more than one hole to make sure the bit is centered in the chuck and all jaws have the same pressure applied. If not you run the risk of the bit slipping more easily and also can make the bit untrue when drilling and you will notice a wobble. 

JT, if you don't mind and have the time, would you post the model number of your bench top press and maybe a pic or two of what you are talking about? I'm not sure I understand it as you described it. I have been looking on C/L and have come to the conclusion that the old Craftsman presses were the last to include a quill clamp. I sure do miss mine. I never should have sold it.

[dgman]

I also have a Delta 12” table mount drill press. I love the locking ring to set the depth. It quick and easy to set. Mine is model #11-990.

[Scrappile]

I had an old Mark II or something like that, Harbor Freight drill press that had that type of locking ring on it.  I love it also,  worked great and very easy to set.  Unfortunately my Jet I replaced it with has the type where you screw the two nuts up and down to set the depth.  Some genius engineer developed  that setup, that probably never used a drill press in his/her life!!   Just saying......

Edited February 3, 2019 by Scrappile

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

There you go Ray Dan did a good job with the photos. The same drill press. Like I said my 12 and 16 both have that locking system and works great. Just got out of the shop and used it 3 times for 3 different projects. If I had to keep lowering and raising the table it would drive me crazy. But I have to do that at times too. The ring between the handle and the drill press with that little flip lever is what I am talking about. Thanks Dan saves me from finding a link or taking camera out.  

[Rockytime]

Hi JT. I tried using my Captain Marvel's Secret Decoding Ring to find where your photos are located. The gallery address under your name came up. Page Unavailable. Apparently dgman found it.

[OCtoolguy]

1 hour ago, dgman said:

I also have a Delta 12” table mount drill press. I love the locking ring to set the depth. It quick and easy to set. Mine is model #11-990.

Thanks Dan. And JT I guess also. I will have to make it a point to keep an eye open for a used one. I see now what you are talking about JT. The little twist lock on the crank arm looks like it would work just fine.

[Sycamore67]

There are some current drill presses with quill locks.  This is also a feature that helps reduce quill slop and associated inaccuracy.  However, the quill lock is typically on more expensive drills presses.