Need a little help understanding what's happening

[Craigo]

Hello, I am very new at scrolling and have a question regarding scroll saw tracking.  I have heard that practice is an important element in everything, which would include use of a scroll saw.  So, I downloaded some "practice" scribbling to use.  I also created my own, which was a series of lines with 90 degree turns.  When correctly cut from the waste, the result looks like peg teeth from a jack-o-lantern.

I'm having difficulty making the turns, and going straight.  The blade seems to occasionally stop progressing thru the wood, then suddenly jumps back to life.  My guess is that it is getting temporarily stuck on a difficult spot in the wood, and is slowly gnawing away while I am pushing the piece.  If I don't notice the deflection in the blade and push too far, when it does make its way through it jumps.  Sometimes, I have attempted make a turn at this point, and as it resumes cutting, the blade jumps off the path.  As a matter of fact, it jumps forward, as I would expect it to under tough conditions, but I've seen it jump BACKWARDS as well, which really baffles me! (That seems to happen mostly when I am making a sharp turn.)  I can't control the way or place it jumps, so some of the time the damage is done in the waste area.  But sometimes not.  The jump can be as much a 1/8 of an inch, which when I'm working close up with my reading glasses on, looks like the Grand Canyon!  For the record, I'm using a Wen saw with an Olson 10tpi (41201) blade, cutting 1/4" plywood or 1/2" of re-sawn 2x4 which I believe is Fir or whatever Home Depot uses for 2x4s. When I watch videos, everyone else looks to be cutting through butter with the greatest of ease.  I am currently using the hold-down foot; I tried sawing without it, but there was no way I could hold down the wood well enough. (The foot on the Wen is not very flat, and when you set it up for a piece of wood, then tighten it down, it re-aligns the foot plate so you almost can't get the wood out from under.)  The blade seems to be fairly taut, though I can't tell for sure.  I've seen many videos on tension, but it still comes down to my opinion of tension as opposed to the opinion of another person.  There is nobody near me that I know has any experience scrolling so I have no other reference.  The Wen doesn't have a speed setting, it just goes faster or slower, so "going slow" or "going fast" is also subjective to me.  

I know that people will see this, and each person will interpret my problems independently. That would give me a bunch of different answers.  I will read them.  I will make sense of them.  They may all be right, and I just want to cut through butter like everyone else!  Thank you in advance for your answers.

[Scrappile]

To me what you are asking is hard to write an answer to.  It is best shone in person or watch videos.  There are all kinds of tutorials on Youtube if you search "scroll saw tutorials" and a few here in the "Articles" under the "Resource" tab.  Others better at it will also respond here.  

Glad to have you join us.  I'm sure some better at instructing will be with you shortly.

[tomsteve]

welcome. cutting pine will do that- it will be a little harder to cut through the growth rings then get easy. in this picture, youre probably having a hard time with the dark summer wood. what blade brand and type are you using? that can make a difference,too

[bcdennis]

 

Speed may be an issue.  Make sure your blade speed is up to the cutting.  2nd - make sure your blade is in the right way.  That can make the project jump,

[WayneMahler]

First off welcome to the village.

Make sure your blade matches what you are trying to do. Also make sure your blade is sharp. Dull blades makes cutting very hard. And can skip through soft areas as there less resistance for the blade. Making sure you blade is squared to the table and installed properly is important too. Scrolling takes a lot of practice and patience. I'm still learning things and have been scrolling for quite a time. Most important is let the blade due the work, it will let you know if your pushing the wood too fast feeding it. Just take your time and things will come together for you. We were are there at some point. 

[Rockytime]

10tpi seems to be awfully coarse for what you are trying to do. 

[SCROLLSAW703]

First things first. Welcome to the forum! 

I have read some on the Wen saws, and the reviews that I seen were all over the board. I was looking for a saw for my son, and was looking at them. After I read the reviews, I had a change of heart.

My first suggestion would be to throw your plywood in the trash. Several reasons for this response. 1)Plywood is nothing more than several thin layers of wood material pressed together with adhesive and hydraulic pressure. The layers of adhesives will wreck blades faster'n you can change'em, neighbor. Which brings me to my next point. Plywood is also VERY famous for what is called "VOIDS." Here is the issue, or issues with those. Voids can magically appear ANY place in plywood, regardless of the thickness. If you happen to be fortunate enough to catch them inline with your cuttin', they'll usually not be much of a headache. If ya run across one cross cuttin', it very well could cause the issues you have mentioned. A void is a clear spot in the layers of plywood where there is nothing there. 

As far as practice, yes. It takes A LOT of practice to build your confidence with the saw in order to prepare for a project. Yes, you are goin' to make mistakes, and yes, you won't follow a straight line right out of the chute. The scroll saw is the safest tool in the shop, and one of the most difficult to master.

You mentioned your difficulties turning, and your blade comin' to a complete stop, then "comin' back to life again." From what I am gatherin' here, imo, first, you're usin' the wrong blade to cut plywood and 1/2'' fir. What happens in this situation is the blade, guessin' it ain't runnin' near fast enough, WILL come to a complete stop, especially in plywood. The adhesives in the plywood will bring that blade to a STOP faster'n you can say "STOP!" Trust me. And when you move your project piece just right, your blade will proceed. 

My Advice would be to go to a smaller, finer tooth blade. Pitch your plywood in the trash, and start workin' with WOOD.;) You'll find things will go so much easier, it'll be like "cuttin' butter your own self." 

Learn to use your "faster & slower" otherwise known as the variable speed. From what I can find out from research, you've got 400 cps up to 1400 cps on your saw. Your blade should always cut fast enough to keep the "kerf" clean. 

Practice, practice, practice. We have all been where you are, neighbor.:) There are all levels of experience here at the village, & all of us are more than willin' to help ya when ya get yourself in a tight. Keep askin' questions, and keep comin' back!  It's great to see a new face on the forum! You're always welcome!! Keep slingin' sawdust!

Sawdust703(brad)

 

[ScollSaw Slasher]

I'll have to agree with Brad that plywood is not the best to cut for practice. First, get yourself some #3 or #5 skip tooth blades, Olsen, FD or Pegas. Then head down to your friendly box home center and pick up 1/4", 1/2" and 3/4" hobby poplar boards (2 foot length). Better than pine or spruce, but still doesn't break the bank. Then have at it cutting shapes, straight lines, curved lines, etc etc. Play games with your speed, feed rate and more. By the time you cut these into sawdust, you'll be ready to go on projects on purpose. Then you can start messing around with the million other types of blade, hardwoods and even plywoods. Welcome to scroll sawing

Blake

[Craigo]

Thanks everyone.  I really appreciate all the input.

I'm going to put a lot of this into practice to see where I end up.

I will change over to poplar.  I happened upon a 12' piece of 3" at home depot last month.  It had been damaged (forklift?) and was at least half off.  This is why I bought it.  Hopefully, I'll see a difference in performance.  I did notice that when cutting the pine 2x4, the jumpiness happened more frequently when cross-cutting as opposed to ripping.  The blade I have been using is, according to Olson, the right one for plywood and 1/2" to 3/4" plywood.  Nonetheless, I'll be trying a finer toothed blade, and trying various speeds.  In regards to the Wen, I knew when buying it that it wouldn't be the best (or maybe even good) scroll saw.  If I enjoy scrolling enough, I'll buy something more upscale, advice on which I will be seeking then.  Even so, I know most often that it is the craftsman, not the tool, that is responsible for the outcome. I've seen some absolutely beautiful work done well before the advances made to modern equipment.  Thanks again for your help, and I will be listening.  In the meantime, I'll be going back to the shop, doing what I do best....

making sawdust, noise, and mistakes!

Edited February 5, 2019 by Craigo

[SCROLLSAW703]

Keep your chin up! You were given two feet for a reason. To take one step at a time;)

Get this saw & your technique perfected, boss, and after about 6 dozen or so projects, we'll help ya start huntin' a new saw.

Practice, practice, practice. 

Keep slingin' sawdust!

Sawdust703(brad)

[meflick]

Welcome to the Village.  Glad you joined us.  As mentioned, youtube videos are a great source to watch and learn quickly how someone else works with their saw.  One person who does a lot, including giving away a free pattern almost every day, is Steve Good.  If you haven't already, you can find his blog here: http://scrollsawworkshop.blogspot.com 

Steve also has a Youtube channel where he has posted a variety of videos on a variety of items regarding scrolling and it can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/user/sdgood/videos

If you want to learn some "basics" he has a number of videos on learning to cut shared there.  You can scroll through looking for them but I will post a link to several for "Beginners" here for you to take a look at.  I am not going to get them all so do look through his list to see what others would be of interest to you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jY-oCZoVWc - You just bought a scroll saw - now what

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTJMqzOnWjQ - Scroll saw basics Part 1 (there are several more Parts that follow this one I am not linking to)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iP1kR4ThXuU - Most important scroll saw technique

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06Kf9h2CXJ0 - Scroll Saw School - Scroll Saw Blades Part 1 (Again, there are more "parts" about blades that follow but I did not provide links)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSO8uXe2NgY - Cutting a Straight Line

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrXfnld0QMY - Cutting Curves and Circles

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTPl4XNTAKc - Cutting Tight Turns

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PD9F0Bv6c0g - Cutting V Cuts

While it is true in part, that even a master can make a simply tool "dance" - it is also true that for beginners, a beginner saw is often a bit more frustrating.  In part, because it does seem to "jump" more and be a little harder to track then with a more mid-line or advanced saw.  As a result, you will have to learn to make accommodations for your saw, and what you find works best for you.  Try slower speeds, faster speeds, pressing down harder when trying to hold it down, and see what seems to help the most with the jumping.

The true experts above have given you some great advise - especially on finding a better wood to start with. Listen to them and watch the videos, and soon you will be scrolling right along.  i started out not quite 3 years ago, and still consider myself a newbie, still learning, but I have learned so much from the men and women here in the village who so kindly share their help and advice anytime anyone answers.  Without them, I would still not be where I am today on the saw.  Good luck.

 

[Bill WIlson]

I will differ slightly with the advice to avoid plywood.  Yes, plywood does have a lot of glue in it, which can shorten the life of blades somewhat, but I don't think it's all that dramatic of a difference between cutting plywood and any solid hardwood. 

The key is finding the right plywood.  Good quality plywood will give you pretty uniform resistance, when cutting.  Voids should be minimal, if not non-existent.  Many scrollers use Baltic birch plywood for their projects.  Personally, I don't think it's best for everything.  When practical, I prefer to use hardwoods myself for most things.  But for certain types of projects, plywood is an excellent medium.

Now, as I said, the key is good quality plywood.  Good quality ply can be as expensive or even more so that some hardwoods.  But, if you know of any cabinet shops or lumber yards in your area, you can likely find all the scraps you could possibly use in their dumpster.    Most places will be willing to give it to you, for the asking, because they have to dispose of it anyway.

Good quality plywood, be it Baltic birch or cabinet grade ply can be identified by counting the number of layers in the ply.  Of course the number of layers will depend on the thickness of the ply, but relatively speaking, the more layers the better.  For example, 1/2" thick construction grade plywood may have 3 or perhaps 5 layers.  1/2" thick Baltic birch or cabinet grade ply will have at least 7 layers and up to 9.  Baltic birch ply and cabinet grade ply will have smoother, more defect free face veneers.  Not all that important for practicing, but it speaks to the quality of the plywood.

So, if you can find a source for some good quality ply, it will make an excellent material for you to practice on.  I've been using it to teach my grandson how to scroll and we have no problems with it.  If it dulls the blades a little faster, I don't worry.  Blades are a consumable and you will use a lot of them and probably break your share as well, while practicing.  The few extra that you might go through by using plywood won't break the bank.

Good luck and have fun making sawdust!

[barb.j.enders]

On 2/5/2019 at 8:33 AM, meflick said:

Welcome to the Village.  Glad you joined us.  As mentioned, youtube videos are a great source to watch and learn quickly how someone else works with their saw.  One person who does a lot, including giving away a free pattern almost every day, is Steve Good.  If you haven't already, you can find his blog here: http://scrollsawworkshop.blogspot.com 

Steve also has a Youtube channel where he has posted a variety of videos on a variety of items regarding scrolling and it can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/user/sdgood/videos

If you want to learn some "basics" he has a number of videos on learning to cut shared there.  You can scroll through looking for them but I will post a link to several for "Beginners" here for you to take a look at.  I am not going to get them all so do look through his list to see what others would be of interest to you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jY-oCZoVWc - You just bought a scroll saw - now what

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTJMqzOnWjQ - Scroll saw basics Part 1 (there are several more Parts that follow this one I am not linking to)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iP1kR4ThXuU - Most important scroll saw technique

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06Kf9h2CXJ0 - Scroll Saw School - Scroll Saw Blades Part 1 (Again, there are more "parts" about blades that follow but I did not provide links)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSO8uXe2NgY - Cutting a Straight Line

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrXfnld0QMY - Cutting Curves and Circles

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTPl4XNTAKc - Cutting Tight Turns

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PD9F0Bv6c0g - Cutting V Cuts

While it is true in part, that even a master can make a simply tool "dance" - it is also true that for beginners, a beginner saw is often a bit more frustrating.  In part, because it does seem to "jump" more and be a little harder to track then with a more mid-line or advanced saw.  As a result, you will have to learn to make accommodations for your saw, and what you find works best for you.  Try slower speeds, faster speeds, pressing down harder when trying to hold it down, and see what seems to help the most with the jumping.

The true experts above have given you some great advise - especially on finding a better wood to start with. Listen to them and watch the videos, and soon you will be scrolling right along.  i started out not quite 3 years ago, and still consider myself a newbie, still learning, but I have learned so much from the men and women here in the village who so kindly share their help and advice anytime anyone answers.  Without them, I would still not be where I am today on the saw.  Good luck.

 

Thanks for the list/links to the videos.  I too have been cutting about 3 years, but it is always good to review the basics.