Question for Hegner and Hawk owners...

[Rob]

I have posted in the past about how hard it is to find a good scroll saw here in NZ but today, amongst the four ( read 'em and weep http://tinyurl.com/yyu6htnn four) second hand saws available in New Zealand today, I found this:

https://www.trademe.co.nz/crafts/woodcraft/listing-1946241997.htm?rsqid=e6d1b97606ea401da970f2fa184232d5

Now I know very little about Hawks but at $270 USD,  I'm pretty sure that is a bargain.  Unfortunately it is collection only and in the North Island, 500 miles away. 

Can anyone tell me more about the saw based on the pictures?  I have a Delta Q3 (great saw but C-Arm so very aggressive and some spares no longer available ) a dead DW788 I drove a 12 hour round trip to get (they are not sold in NZ and it died after 3 months) and a Hegner multicut 2sv (variable speed) that I imported from the UK at vast expense.  

I love my Hegner and don't really need another saw but a bargain is a bargain when all's said and done and it looks to be very well engineered.  It will probably cost another $100 USD to ship it to the South Island.   Does anyone own a Hegner and a similar Hawk and can give me an unbiased opinion on the advantages, disadvantages of the Hawk?  Any more insight as to the model it might be, age etc would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Rob

 

 

[kmmcrafts]

Looking at the pictures the Hawk appears to be a 220VS Ultra saw based on the lower blade clamp style.. I'm not sure exactly when the ultra saws came out.. but I can say I have a older according to Hawk 1993 that is not an Ultra.. and I also have a 1998 that is a Ultra.. Based on reading online of others postings etc.. I've learned that they had Ultra models in 1996.. Based on that info the Ultra saws came out in the mid - late 1990's and they ran production of these until the Hawk G4 came out ( around 2005 ish ).. This style saw is a bottom blade feed only.. Tell tail wear points that I know of off the top of my head are to look at the wedge shape things at the back of the saw that the adjuster rod / bolt goes through them.. These wedges get worn and the point becomes rounded which will make the blade tension fluctuate during the blade stroke... that wedge should be quite pointed.. not so pointed to be sharp but not rounded over either.. My older saw was rounded some and gave me the tension issue.. I just sanded each side until it was pointed again.. but they recommend buying new ones and sometimes the saw arms need sent in to me re machined.. I think this is talked about in the videos..      

Seems like a good deal from what I can see in the pictures

Hawk does mention that they have had some of these saws come back for repair where the motor shaft broke You can watch the videos on their site that will give out info on wear points etc and problems they have had with them etc.  You can either go to their site or youtube and watch the videos.. Lots of good info on them if you watch all of them.. 

Here is a link to their website video page. Any questions after watching these.. give a shout out and someone here may have an answer..

http://www.bushtonmanufacturing.com/Videos.html 

 

Rather watch on youtube here is a link to the channel,

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFgc95v5zaz0G80IQChHJ2w/videos

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

I agree with Kevin that is a worthwhile saw to look at and also a great price. Looks like it was well kept if they bought a cover for it. I get a little weary about the voltage conversion with the transformer. Whenever you do this there is a risk of the voltage not quite matching the motors ratings. Not sure what RBI does but many companies will set a tool up for the place of use and that is a motor to match the users needs. In the USA we take this for granted all the time. 

An older thread from here that may interest you.http://www.scrollsawvillage.com/forums/topic/27754-rbi-vs-hegner-and-are-they-worth-the-upgrade/

Edited February 10, 2019 by JTTHECLOCKMAN

[GrampaJim]

When I was looking for a used Hawk, I talked to Bushton, Mfg. on any issues.  The short answer is look under the saw and if the motor says FASCO Motors, they can be a problem and the repair is to replace the motor AND the speed controller.  Which means way more the the cost of this saw.  I walked away from a $600 USD unit for that reason.  If it any other motor, $270 is one I would get, assuming the above voltage issue is resolved.

 

[kmmcrafts]

I may be wrong as I don't know when they changed to the newer smaller motors.. but every "Ultra" style saw I've seen has the better motor on it... that said.. this is the one that has the bearing plate bolted to the end of the motor with another bearing just inside the motor that I've hear a few had some issues and the bearing would get hot or something and anyway.. they can end up breaking the shaft on the end of the motor.. Honestly I think all saws had this issue up until the BM series redesign of the newest saws.. 

[JimErn]

18 hours ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

I agree with Kevin that is a worthwhile saw to look at and also a great price. Looks like it was well kept if they bought a cover for it. I get a little weary about the voltage conversion with the transformer. Whenever you do this there is a risk of the voltage not quite matching the motors ratings. Not sure what RBI does but many companies will set a tool up for the place of use and that is a motor to match the users needs. In the USA we take this for granted all the time. 

An older thread from here that may interest you.http://www.scrollsawvillage.com/forums/topic/27754-rbi-vs-hegner-and-are-they-worth-the-upgrade/

It's not voltage that is the issue when using a transformer like that, I used them all the time both in Europe and the far east when stationed there.

The issue is the frequency that the electric company transmits.  In the US our electric companies transmit at 60 hz.  Overseas they transmit at 50hz, that makes motors run slower. Before manufacturers began putting voltage selector switches on components, record player needed a special 50hz spindle, tape decks just did not sound right, etc etc.

Running a 60hz motor at 50hz overheats it and it's life span is shortened, very counter intuitive and I never really grasped why that is.

the difference between 50 and 60 hz is a 20% change in motor speed

Australia and New Zealand use 50 hz, as does most of the world by the way.

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

5 hours ago, JimErn said:

It's not voltage that is the issue when using a transformer like that, I used them all the time both in Europe and the far east when stationed there.

The issue is the frequency that the electric company transmits.  In the US our electric companies transmit at 60 hz.  Overseas they transmit at 50hz, that makes motors run slower. Before manufacturers began putting voltage selector switches on components, record player needed a special 50hz spindle, tape decks just did not sound right, etc etc.

Running a 60hz motor at 50hz overheats it and it's life span is shortened, very counter intuitive and I never really grasped why that is.

the difference between 50 and 60 hz is a 20% change in motor speed

Australia and New Zealand use 50 hz, as does most of the world by the way.

Jim you are correct and I just did not want to get into too deeply because most people understand differences in voltage more than frequency. But it would be a concern for me if I saw that. Remember there is electronics involved with the speed controller also. 

[Rob]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts.  Like I said, I don't really need this saw and it's 500 miles away so I would have to buy it sight unseen.  I'm wary of shipping after my Hegner arrived bent out of alignment and I'm not keen on the transformer either.  On balance I think I'll pass although I will keep an eye on it in case they reduce it further.   If it gets cheap enough, I may take a punt.

Thanks again,

Rob