Called Buston Today About My New Hawk Order 8 Weeks Now

[kmmcrafts]

So.. I ordered my Hawk on Dec.23rd.. I called on Jan.4th to ask about machining the arms on my old 220VS where the wedge pivot is ( BTW they get $23 for this plus any parts ).. anyway I mentioned my order which she acknowledged and said they was working on a batch of orders they got at Christmas time..but never said anything about a timeline of when they'd ship out or anything.. Called again on Feb 8th to simply inquire about my order.. I talked to a different lady ( do not recall her name but I usually get Nicole when I call and she is awesome knowledgeable on all aspects of the saws  )  and she mentioned they was one part away from having all of their Hawks ready to ship but they was having to repair a machine to set it up and she didn't act like she knew anything about what was really the problem.. I kinda took it as though they needed to just set up the machine and make the part.. 

Today I just got off the phone with Nicole.. Their CNC machine broke and is not making parts to the tolerance's it's supposed to be. and they had to call in some CNC repair person to diagnose the machine ( if I understood her correctly ).. Now they know the problem but are waiting on a back ordered part for their machine .. She said they was sending out emails to those that had ordered a saw to explain and she didn't understand why I never got my message.. She said the repair part for the CNC was shipped out to them but and the tracking number has said it's in Bushton or the USP closest to them but has been stuck saying that the last couple days.. she's hoping it comes today. The machine is in ( her words ) a million pieces scattered throughout the shop so it'll take some time to get it back up and running.. Mentioned that they hope to be able to get their saw orders finished up and ready to mail out in about 3 weeks... 

Oh I did ask about what part was needing made yet.. I'm not sure what she was talking about but she mentioned some sort of screws, LOL.. she also mentioned that they mailed out one saw for a customer and UPS dropped it.. the saw was damaged and the part that customer needs is also the part that was broken in that customers saw.. LOL  

She also mentioned that they had been trying to farm out the machining job to a local machine shop but they are also booked out for several weeks.. and I think she said they have this set up for them to do if their machine isn't repaired first..   

So anyway, many people have been messaging me about my new Hawk.. because I haven't said anything about it.. Because it still hasn't showed up..LOL

So anyway, that's the low down on my new Hawk I ordered, I'll hopefully update in 3-4 weeks.. with a tracking number or a new saw arrive, LOL.. I had thought strongly about canceling out my order... and would have long ago if I was really in need of the saw.. I have plenty of saws to work on so I'll wait it out a while longer..         

Edited February 20, 2019 by kmmcrafts

[hotshot]

If a person used a New Hawk for their livelihood, and only had the one saw that needed one of those CNC parts, these kinds of service interruptions would be hard to take.  Sometimes Bushton says they are waiting on motors/parts, other times they are in harvest, or backed up, or someone just had a baby or other family issues, etc and etc.  If they had longer production runs where they built up their inventory in advance, purchased enough motors and or parts to cover a longer span (or thought to order before they ran out) issues like this wouldn't be so impactful.  

When making parts, there is machine setup time and etc, so after spending the time to get everything running smoothly for a specific part,  they should make "a lot" so that they keep those efficiencies of scale.

Keeping inventory levels that low feels like the business might be struggling.  Those that enter the Hawk club pay an extravagant price for that privilege, but it doesn't feel Bushton is honoring their side of the deal in terms of their service/responsiveness.  Thankfully, once you get your machine, these machines don't break down often.

 

Edited February 20, 2019 by hotshot

[Scruffydog]

If they have a machine with a ball screw problem I am not surprised. Being in the business I know how frustrating these things can be, and also know how busy a lot of machine shops are. We have the same problems here and with our vendors. This is a great opportunity to practice your patience skills. Sorry for the delay tho.

[Scruffydog]

3 minutes ago, hotshot said:

When making parts, there is machine setup time and etc, so you really want to make "a lot" so that you keep your efficiencies of scale.  Make a years worth or more. Keeping inventory levels that low feels like the business might be struggling.

Maybe, but inventory sitting on the shelves is costly. It's the same as having stacks of dollar bills sitting on the shelf. They might simply run a lean operation. I know I wanted to buy a PS Wood Machines saw, but they are not making them because of their bandsaw blades and a design change they are implementing on their saw. So I just have to wait. Sometimes we just have to wait.

[Scrappile]

Well sorry, but this kind of service will not keep them in business long.  And if they go out of business.... were do parts come from?  I would be very skeptical.  I wish them well.  Hope they succeed I do not see how a business can like that.  I guess in the greater scheme of things, they are providing a custom built saw and there are not really a large number of buyers,,, so those that want one will be patient.

[orangeman]

"UPS dropped it"

That's why I won't have a saw shipped to me via UPS or FedEX ever again!!!!!!!!!!!!

bb

[kmmcrafts]

10 minutes ago, Scrappile said:

Well sorry, but this kind of service will not keep them in business long.  And if they go out of business.... were do parts come from?  I would be very skeptical.  I wish them well.  Hope they succeed I do not see how a business can like that.  I guess in the greater scheme of things, they are providing a custom built saw and there are not really a large number of buyers,,, so those that want one will be patient.

For the most part.. about the only thing one needs for these is the bearings.. blade clamps and those wedges.. there is very little that goes wrong on these saws.. They may not be in business by the time I might need a part.. but then.. any machine shop should be able to make any specialty part I might run up on needing too.. My neighbor is a manager of a local BIG machine shop and he has made me many parts over the years.. yes even some parts for the old Delta saw I had that the part (Upper Arm ) was NLA.. and also have three family members who are machinist.. I think one way or another I can get a part should I need it.. much of the stuff on these I can make my self.. honestly.. I could probably do it my self on my own CNC LOL.. might cost me some cutter bits but hey.. gotta do what you have too sometimes.. 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Its a scroll saw for Pete's sake. Not making a car. That is a bunch of phooy if you ask me. 3 month's to build a scrollsaw. It can turn potential customers away because there are other options out there. The arms are probably the crucial parts so when they get them running as mentioned stock pile them. Everything else is pick it off the shelf.  Those stands have been used for years. The motors are shipped in. The bellows are shipped in and the list goes on so what is it do they machine. I think I would pitching a little noise. Good luck.

[Bill WIlson]

I don't have a Hawk, nor am I in the market for one, but it sounds to me like Bushton is trying to run this business like a part time hobby.  That may work, if your customers are agreeable, but in this day & age, people are conditioned to expect quick, "off the shelf" turn around on their purchases. 

Many of you remember the Eclipse and how they were built.  It was essentially a one-man operation.  Apparently Ernie Mellon did well enough, but once he passed away, no one was willing to take that business over.  I suspect the shoestring operation, low inventory, long lead time business model would scare many away.  It almost appears as though Bushton operates in a similar fashion.  The question is, can they keep enough of their customer base satisfied to stay in business?  Looks to me like the jury may still be out.  I've got no skin in this game, but I hope they find a way to make it work.  It would be a shame to lose another top quality manufacturer.

[OCtoolguy]

Years ago when I was a newbie in the tool business, I had one customer who owned a machine shop and they made one specific aluminum part for Boeing. It was some sort of an internal wing strut. My point is, there was no one machine shop who Boeing was dependent upon to make their parts. They farmed most everything out and only did the final assembly. Knowing what a simple mechanism the Hawks are made up of, it's ridiculous to me that they are trying to do it all themselves. And trying to do it between planting and harvesting makes it that much more ridiculous. Someone needs to step in there and create a better business model for them. The main reason that the price of a Hawk is so high is because of the low production runs. They need to step up and build enough machines to supply a year's worth of business at a time and half way through that year, repeat the whole thing again. Never let your business run out of inventory. Never. If you don't supply the product, someone else will. That's precisely why China kicked our butt. 

 

[Rockytime]

40 minutes ago, octoolguy said:

Years ago when I was a newbie in the tool business, I had one customer who owned a machine shop and they made one specific aluminum part for Boeing. It was some sort of an internal wing strut. My point is, there was no one machine shop who Boeing was dependent upon to make their parts. They farmed most everything out and only did the final assembly. Knowing what a simple mechanism the Hawks are made up of, it's ridiculous to me that they are trying to do it all themselves. And trying to do it between planting and harvesting makes it that much more ridiculous. Someone needs to step in there and create a better business model for them. The main reason that the price of a Hawk is so high is because of the low production runs. They need to step up and build enough machines to supply a year's worth of business at a time and half way through that year, repeat the whole thing again. Never let your business run out of inventory. Never. If you don't supply the product, someone else will. That's precisely why China kicked our butt. 

 

I agree with you Ray, but sometimes it depends on how deep their pockets are.

[Sycamore67]

There is a slight difference between Boeing and Bushston.  I doubt that they have the economics to do what is suggested as the market for scroll Swiss not as great as a 737.

A scroll saw needs to be built to pretty good tolerances to avoid vibration and wearing out.  

[OCtoolguy]

15 minutes ago, Rockytime said:

I agree with you Ray, but sometimes it depends on how deep their pockets are.

Well, if they had the money to buy the company, and operate a farm, they should have the means to operate the business properly or else sell it to someone who can. It's obvious that there is a market for the Hawk saw. I have been watching the group that has formed on Facebook who have Eclipse saws. It would be great to resurrect that product but it would take some money and someone who understands manufacturing. If you are at all interested, check out Facebook and search for the Eclipse scroll saw group.

 

[Oldmansbike]

Sorry to hear about the wait. I'm considering buying a new Hawk but I think I will hold off for a while and see what happens and how you like the saw compared to your older ones.

[kmmcrafts]

I wonder how many saws they actually sell a year... I'm betting it's not too many..  and as Les said.. they'd need pretty deep pockets to have several saws made up in advance.. that may not even sell.. sitting on inventory for a long time is hard to do..

I'm not in any hurry for the saw.. and I do understand their situation.. My biggest issue with it is the communication.. nobody has reached out to me on the fact it's been 8 weeks and probably will be another 3-4 weeks.. and no one has said a word to me.. They have my phone number.. and email.. I'm totally okay with the length of time that it's taking.. but a update or a projected time frame would be nice.. Now that I know a machine is broke.. and it's probably going to be another 3 weeks.. I have some sort of answer.. placing an order 8 weeks ago and not hearing anything at all is just unacceptable to me.. Me having to call them to find out where the heck my saw or my money is.. that just makes a customer feel as though they could care less about them..  

 

[Sycamore67]

2 hours ago, octoolguy said:

Well, if they had the money to buy the company, and operate a farm, they should have the means to operate the business properly or else sell it to someone who can. It's obvious that there is a market for the Hawk saw. 

 

I respectfully disagree with this.  None of us have any idea what the financial condition is of the business or farm. Not all or many farmers are really rich as they have high operating costs along with being subject to world market conditions and local weather. You can not judge a book by the cover.  I think this is a harsh judgement about something we really do not have all the facts.  

Does anyone really know how many scroll saws are sold per year and what the actual market is for the Hawk is and How many are sold per year?

The comments I quoted can be very damaging to a company.  

Edited February 21, 2019 by Sycamore67

[kmmcrafts]

It’s real difficult to “really” know what a business is wealthy or not. A lot of people talked about my brothers lumber mill when one of his buildings burned down. The news reported that the business did 2 million in revenue a year. People thought my brother was a rich guy in disguise,. Yeah he runs 2 million in revenue through the business but most of that goes right through his hands and into expenses to keep the place running. 

Same deal with my crafts I sell, family and friends hear how much I did in sales and they think I’m making bank, but after expenses I’m actually almost making minimum wage earnings with two times the hours lol. 

[Rockytime]

Unless someone has actually operated a small business they rarely understand the economics of a small business. I see the new Jeeps, SUVs and other new cars on our street. I will bet anything a lot of them are either leased or on 5 and 7 year payment plans. Appearance means nothing.

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

I would think by now they have a handle on how many they sell a year with a certain tolerance. I also think there is periods during the year that sales are more robust than others so they should know how to work around this. You have a product to sell and if there is long time delays in getting that product out then get out of the business because you will be run over. Its not like they are changing models anytime soon so that model will be around for many more years to come. Keeping in contact with the client makes good business sense. Word of mouth and the many forums out there can mean $$$ one way or other. I give them no pass at all. 

[kmmcrafts]

56 minutes ago, Rockytime said:

Unless someone has actually operated a small business they rarely understand the economics of a small business. I see the new Jeeps, SUVs and other new cars on our street. I will bet anything a lot of them are either leased or on 5 and 7 year payment plans. Appearance means nothing.

Yeah, I agree.. not many people pay for stuff before they bring it home..  

Shopping 12 years ago for the last car I bought. the dealer kept taking about the car only being $250 a month.. I asked how much the car was.. I don't honestly think he knew the price.. he had to get a manager to give me the actual cash price for the car.. That there tells you not many people actually buy their cars.. 

[rjweb]

I don’t think I would wait this long, and then they say we hit another problem will be another 4 weeks or more, and that they don’t even bother to contact you, but probably the reason they didn’t contact you is they were afraid you would cancel your order and the might have spent your money already, just my opinion, RJ 

[JimErn]

10 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

. Me having to call them to find out where the heck my saw or my money is..

 

Whoa! they have charged you?  When you placed an order instead of when it ships?

[kmmcrafts]

1 hour ago, JimErn said:

Whoa! they have charged you?  When you placed an order instead of when it ships?

Yes the credit card is charged immediately when you order online, I assume the same way when you call the order in.. My opinion is they should say something about a timeline on the web page about whether the saws are in stock or back ordered etc.. but they have a pretty poor website.. They have items on there that have been saying " Pictures coming soon " for the 2-3 years I've been dealing with them.. LOL  

[Old Joe]

I'm starting to think on getting a new saw. I know who I won't be buying from. Thanks.

[Bill WIlson]

4 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

Yes the credit card is charged immediately when you order online, I assume the same way when you call the order in.. My opinion is they should say something about a timeline on the web page about whether the saws are in stock or back ordered etc.. but they have a pretty poor website.. They have items on there that have been saying " Pictures coming soon " for the 2-3 years I've been dealing with them.. LOL  

I agree that communication would go a long way toward maintaining good customer relations.  Set a production schedule and stick to it.  That should be the least they can do.  Long lead times don't necessarily have to be a problem.  Not meeting expectations is certainly a big problem.  Set realistic expectations, right from the start and have truthful and responsible answers ready, if the lead time extends beyond what was quoted.  I work in production scheduling and planning, so I'm quite familiar with the concepts.  If you run your business like a hobby, it's always going to take a back seat to your other interests.  That isn't fair to your customers and not a good model for long term success.