What Finish Would You Use?

[kmmcrafts]

Doing something a little different from my normal. I’m stepping up a notch with my clocks. Normally I use plywood backers but I don’t like the cheap looks the plywood edges give. So I’m working with real walnut and cherry here. Stack cut 3 of these from BBply with the solid wood backer. I have a 2-3/4 ( I think  ) clock insert that I’ll be drilling out yet for. Picture with just the clock resting on the top to give visual idea. 

Anyway, I'm hoping for a rich deep looking sheen but not glossy. Was thinking about BLO mix and top coat with lacquer. Or Danish oil as I’m out of BLO at the moment. Anyway  I’m not much of a finisher other than Danish oil or mineral oil and beeswax mix. Which the beeswax mix does give the finish look like I want. But I’m not sure really how durable a finish that is. 

What’s tung oil? Is it a oil similar to the BLO? Since I’ll likely have to buy whatever I finish with except the Danish oil or beeswax mix. Maybe time to experiment with something else.

Anyway throw me some ideas. 

 

[Bill WIlson]

Tung oil is really very similar to BLO, in most respects.  Both are drying oils and both can be used as the base ingredient for paint, Danish oil and varnish/poly.   Real tung oil is a little less popular and not as commonly available as BLO.  It takes a long time to cure. 

Beware, as there are a lot of finishes on the market that have "tung oil" in their name, but likely don't contain any real tung oil.  

Some guys prefer it over BLO, claiming it has a deeper, richer tone, but the bottom line is that on a piece like yours, you probably wouldn't notice much difference between it and BLO.

 

[kmmcrafts]

What advantage does BLO vrs the mix 50/50 BLO and mineral spirits have? Dry times? I did the mix thing last year and I liked the results.. I top coated with lacquer after a couple weeks drying time.. The BLO without the mix seemed quite thick to use by dipping the piece in.. Maybe better as a rubbing / polishing type finish?  

I've read two things about BLO or at least the mix. and on one hand some say it needs a top coat.. while others have said it has drying agents in it if it's BLO.. If it's just LO then it does need a top coat?  I realize a lot of mis-information out there that people spread because they are mis informed in the first place.. seems to be a lot of confusion with these oil finishes as to whether they are a finish or just an enhancer before finishing.. This is why I haven't really messed to much with finishing.. because I sell my items and I don't want someones purchase to look like crap in a year or two because the oil dried out or whatever..

 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Kevin I wish we lived closer. I could show you first hand and with product in hand the differences. First I think we discussed this before but the basics are. Linseed oil is a product that is seldom used in finishing because it really does not dry. Boiled linseed oil is derivative of this but is a thin down version and a mix of agents such as driers so that it will absorb well into the wood as does linseed oil but will cure faster. Tung oil is basically the same thing but comes from a different plant. Linseed oil is similar to flaxseed oil but not drinkable. Now Danish oil is basically BLO but has polyurethane added to give it somewhat a tougher finish and a small sheen. They have driers in  them to help dry faster but with all finishes, dry does not mean cured. That takes different times due to weather conditions in your drying area such as humidity and temps. With these finishes usually one coat is all that is needed because no more will be absorbed and you are just laying it on and sometimes it cures in puddles and not a good look or feel. All these products can be top coated with poly or lacquer to give the protection and shine you desire and that is up to you. 

I always prefer lacquer over poly because withlaquer you are not building layers as you do with poly, but rather are making a thicker layer and the depth looks deeper . I rarely use poly. I basically use poly if it is an outdoor piece or something that needs a stronger protection. Lacquer does not dry as hard as poly. Lacquer is a finish that is more forgiving and easier to repair.   Now most furniture people use lacquers but it is not the same as we use and their finish is tougher. 

Now the old saying is do not mix finishes and it is true. But with Danish oil the amount of poly is small so it will not affect anything if you top coat with lacquer. I have done it many times but again making sure the piece is cured and not just dried. I like the look of satin lacquers on many projects or will go to gloss. I never use semigloss because it is a look that is in between and shows you did not make a commitment. Again this is a personal choice thing.

That clock is a wall hanger from what I can tell and will not get abused from touching all the time so any finish will do. Most my projects I sell are finished with Watco Danish oil and then are top coated with watco satin wax. Again I mentioned this before the look and feel of a piece comes down to sanding. I  sand all projects with 220 grit paper and thus I get a nice feel. Anything less you leave the grain more open and the feel gets rougher. I can not tell you what or how to finish that piece because it is a look thing. Good luck.

I will say this all finishes are toxic and the smell is strong so work in a well ventilated area. 

Just a more direct answer to your first question, the difference with BLO you buy and one you mix is unless you are also adding a drier to the mix then it is a thinned down version without the driers. Bought stuff has driers and helps dry and cure faster. Now your version can dry faster if you thin down alot more. Remember BLO is a thinned down version of Linseed oil already. If it is thick then it is going bad. 

Edited February 22, 2019 by JTTHECLOCKMAN

[Scrappile]

You are in production mode,, the "oils" take a long time to dry/cure.  Now if it were me and it isn't, I'd use Deft spray Lacquer if you can get it where you live.  Great durable finish, dries very quickly.  I'd put on three or so coats.  Only down side to me is the smell.  Only finish of that type, that I hate the smell of... but it dissipates quickly also.

Edited February 22, 2019 by Scrappile

[kmmcrafts]

Thank you JT for the response.. I have in the past dipped with danish oil and then sprayed lacquer over a few weeks later... But I thought I had ready not to do this.. so I stopped doing that.. always thought they came out great.. but when I thought I'd read about not top coating it.. I thought maybe it was a bad thing for long term for some reason... So that said.. I believe I'll use my tried and true Danish oil and then top coat in a few weeks..

Yes it's a wall clock.. I made a few last year testing to see how they might sell.. and they do great... maybe better than the deck clocks because I only have a few wall clocks and I sold quite a few last year with the 15 or so I had.. vrs. the 120 ish desk clocks I have.. so.. I thought I'd add more this year.. nice thing about the wall clocks is I can stack cut and use a backer.. Guess I could with some of the desk clocks to but I seen someone a few years ago doing that and they really didn't look all that great.. Just being production minded here, LOL

Wanting to go with solid wood ones so I can carve out the back for the movement on the ones I use a movement on so they hang closer to the wall.. just a nicer look.. I'll switch over the current ones I sell to this method too as most are sold out from last year anyway.. 

Again, Thank you, 

[Sycamore67]

I use Danish Oil with a poly top coat frequently and looks fine to me

[kmmcrafts]

1 minute ago, Scrappile said:

You are in production mode,, the "oils" take a long time to dry/cure.  Now if it were me and it isn't, I'd use Deft spray Lacquer if you can get it where you live.  Great durable finish, dries very quickly.  I'd put on three or so coats.  Only down side to me is the smell.  Only finish of that type, that I hate the smell of... but it dissipates quickly also.

Yeah, I can get that.. I did use it a long long time ago on something.. It's hard to find it but I have seen it.. Forgot about that stuff.. Hmm.. maybe I'll try some of that again on one of these.. Planning to dip at least two of them today..maybe I'll save out one of the walnut ones and try Deft..

[kmmcrafts]

Just now, Sycamore67 said:

I use Danish Oil with a poly top coat frequently and looks fine to me

Yeah me too but poly is all I used at first.. then JT mentioned using the lacquer and I do like the look a little better.. I'll probably end up using poly on these since I bought several cans last year as they say lacquer... but they aren't really they smell and finish like poly. it was a store brand ( do it best I think ) and it's not what it says it is.. LOL But I'm going to use them up..   

[Sycamore67]

The great advantage you have is time.  Too many times people are looking for the fastest way and not necessarily the best way.  The thing about lacquer is that it dries fast as long as the under coat is dried or cured.

[Dave Monk]

A couple years ago I bought spray equipment. I was using 10 rattle cans a week. Way too much money. I use SW precat lacquer in medium rub. I can buy it for $29 a gallon. I have done a couple pieces with Danish oil and sprayed the lacquer over it and have seen no visual difference in look. I can tint the lacque whenever I want colors..........This works for me.

[Bill WIlson]

The only thing BLO gets you, when you end up topcoating it, is that it will impart an amber tint to the wood and make the grain pop more than some topcoats alone.  Finishes like oil based varnish, polyurethane and Danish oils, already have some sort of drying oil as an ingredient (that the oil in "oil based"), so if you are going to use them as a top coat, then there really is no advantage to using BLO or tung oil first.  The oil in varnish/poly/Danish oil will do the exact same thing as the BLO/tung oil alone does.

I use it if I'm going to use a waterborne top coat, because the waterborne finishes go on clear and don't warm up the wood with the amber tint.  But, I don't like the thought of applying a waterborne poly over an oil, even if it's fully cured, so I'll apply a coat of shellac to seal the oil and act as a barrier, so I don't have any problems with the waterborne topcoat.  For all practical purposes, the BLO step in this finishing schedule is sort of a waste as well, because shellac will impart an amber tint and pop the grain, just like BLO does, so there is really no advantage to the applying BLO first.

I don't use lacquer, because I can't take the odor, so I can't offer any advice about that.

For my money, a simple Danish oil finish would accomplish what you want on that piece.  Keep it simple. 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Yes any oil will tint the project a warm yellow but to me that is a good thing unless you are going for true natural colors and things like holly. I prefer Watco Danish oil and have been using it since I started woodworking. deft has come out with a new can so not sure if they changed formula but I went around and bought as many of the old cans I could get. I like rattle can deft. I will break out the spray equipment if I have many projects to do and they are fairly large and then I go with water based lacquer. Easier to clean the equipment. Put them side by side with Deft and you can not tell the difference. Again it is a matter of choice. I have done gloss and satin lacquer in wall clocks as well as just Danish oil. Just a look that you are going for. Anything in oils and lacquer have a strong smell. anything waterbased not so much. 

[Hermit]

23 hours ago, Bill WIlson said:

Some guys prefer it over BLO, claiming it has a deeper, richer tone, but the bottom line is that on a piece like yours, you probably wouldn't notice much difference between it and BLO

I'm one of those guys.

Having never used BLO before up to a couple months ago, I did a side by side comparison using blo and tung oil on scrap all sanded to the same grit, 220. The only difference to me was tung oil appeared to be a little richer, and ever so slightly deeper in color. So for me, ill stick with tung oil. I wait a week before spraying with deft lacquer. 

Whenever I  contemplate a new finish, I test it on scrap first. Then I write on the back of the scrap and throw it in the drawer for future reference. 

To edit....If you haven't watched any of Charles Neil finishing videos on you tube you're missing out. He is the expert in my opinion. Will keep you busy for awhile. Just search his name 

 

Edited February 23, 2019 by Hermit
Additional info

[Foxfold]

Always eager to learn, I looked up Charles Neil on youtube. However the sound quality is such that his videos are unwatchable. Such a shame.

2 hours ago, Hermit said:

watched any of Charles Neil finishing videos

 

[Sycamore67]

I just tried 4 of Charles Neil's videos and they sounded fine on my Kindle and computer.

It is interesting reading this thread and the viewpoints.  Several commenting are those who are making and finishing projects for sale and doing quantity finishing.  For them it seems that time, cost, and visual appeal are all important.  

In my case, I am only interested in how it looks and have a lot of time to finish a project.  The difference in cost for me is negligible and I am only doing one project at a time.  I often will take a week to try different finishing regimes to see what I like best. Also, I have no interest in developing my own secret recipe for finishing.

[Foxfold]

23 minutes ago, Sycamore67 said:

I just tried 4 of Charles Neil's videos and they sounded fine on my Kindle and computer.

Thanks for letting me know, I'll try again on my ipad, I may have better luck with that.

[Jim McDonald]

If you can't find Deft, Watco makes a great lacquer in three sheens.