Called Hawk (3rd Time) Today About The New Saw

[kmmcrafts]

40 minutes ago, hotshot said:

Kevin, it isn't just one bad review.  My BM came from someone not happy with it.  I know someone else on the forum that got another BM from someone not happy with it.  Iggys complaint was initially with vibration, but in the end, the more serious complaint was about how it cut.  I have very serious concerns about multiple design decisions on the Hawk, including the knobs/clamps and the stand mounting.  I know someone else on the forum that made the trip to Bushton to tour the facilities, and was concerned enough to change direction and go the Hegner route.  I know a few others that were happy with their purchase, as I'm sure you will be.

As for the Excalibur, your not the first person I've heard complain about various aspects of it either.  I know a couple of folks that left EX to go to Hegner.  Your Hawk will definitely outlive the the Ex, and the complexity of the EX makes it difficult to work on should issues arise. 

So, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter what any one thinks about your decision.  You have the right to drive a Ryobi or a Hegner, or anything in between, so that is your decision.  I'm just glad you are not trying to cover up the consequences of that decision, to protect the Bushton Hawk reputation.  I think the light you a shedding on them is good, and people can base their decision on your actual experience, as they also did with Iggy.

 

Thanks for bringing that up.. I had forgot about Dave going to tour the plant.. 

 

[Bill WIlson]

I too want to give Kevin credit for being patient.  While I agree that it appears Bushton has some work to do on their business model and practices, Kevin has not complained about the delay.  To the contrary, he has repeatedly stated that he is not in a hurry for his saw.  He's simply relating his experiences with BM for the benefit of the rest of us.

Certainly, not everyone would tolerate the delays Kevin is experiencing.  As Hotshot accurately stated, that is each person's right.  I for one have followed this saga, just out of the interests of a casual bystander.  Frankly, if I were in the market for a new saw today, I'm not sure if any of this information would impact a decision on whether to buy an RBI or not.  I suspect that if I felt they were the best saw for me and I really wanted one, I would be like Kevin and wait patiently.  On the other hand, we each have expectations of the companies we do business with.  Things that one person will readily tolerate may be completely unacceptable to another.  That is apparent in this thread.  Hopefully we can keep the conversation friendly, as we all have something to learn from this.

Just my $.02.....and worth every penny  you paid for it. 

[JimErn]

I agree with Bill and others, some are willing to wait for what they want, others are not, nothing wrong with either position.

My only concern, if I had placed an order, is them charging my CC when the order was placed, as opposed to shipped.  Not only does this increase the CC balance and associated interest charged (with nothing in hand to show for it), but as I understand it, you only have 60 days to dispute a charge and get a charge back.

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Yes Kevin has not complained because he has other saws to fall back on. But what about that person wanting his first saw and saved to buy one of these and gets this. What do you think his thoughts are. We do not know what the other 18 are saying and they too maybe as patient. Who knows what they are saying to friends who maybe wanting to try this. This is not a good look for the company. Remember this is not the same people that made the saws back years ago so we are not talking the same product line here and maybe the saw was good years ago the jury may still be out on this group and if this is any indication of what to expect when things go wrong maybe not a good look. They should be keeping the people informed and seems they are not because it is Kevin that says he is doing the calling. I agree about the money thing that is a no-no in my book. They should offer some compensation to these people such as free shipping or something. They are buying a high $$$ saw and that mainly is because they are built one at a time and not because the parts are any better. It is the labor driving the price. To not be able to stock saws or parts for future sales just does not make sense. They will be right back in the same boat if and when they get this cleared up and something else goes down. They should have enough data to know what saws sell the best and what parts need replacing the most and stock these to some degree. I know stock on the shelf does not make you money but it can because you can answer the call when needed but go through this and who knows how many sales you lost. 

I hope when all said and done the product they ship out has been tested and there is no further recalls or problems and Kevin and everyone else who buys one has many happy hours sawing on it. 

[Scrappile]

Well it would impact me because I want to buy from a company that I feel will be in business for some time.  I can not see how they can stay in business this way.  I am not a business person, but I know enough about it to know they seem to know less than I do.   And, just do not have the patience Kevin has.  I think he has gone above and beyond.  Service from people I deal with is very important to me.

Personally I am somewhat worried about the Seyco.  They give stiller service, but look at the competition for that class of saws now in the USA.  King, Excalibur, Pegas and Seyco all with basically  the same saws in the same price range.  I'm not sure there is a big enough audience to support all of them.  Scroll saws, I don't think, are a big seller in the wood working world nor is there a lot of repeat buying.  Time will tell.

Edited March 8, 2019 by Scrappile

[kmmcrafts]

1 hour ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

Yes Kevin has not complained because he has other saws to fall back on. But what about that person wanting his first saw and saved to buy one of these and gets this. What do you think his thoughts are. We do not know what the other 18 are saying and they too maybe as patient. Who knows what they are saying to friends who maybe wanting to try this. This is not a good look for the company. Remember this is not the same people that made the saws back years ago so we are not talking the same product line here and maybe the saw was good years ago the jury may still be out on this group and if this is any indication of what to expect when things go wrong maybe not a good look. They should be keeping the people informed and seems they are not because it is Kevin that says he is doing the calling. I agree about the money thing that is a no-no in my book. They should offer some compensation to these people such as free shipping or something. They are buying a high $$$ saw and that mainly is because they are built one at a time and not because the parts are any better. It is the labor driving the price. To not be able to stock saws or parts for future sales just does not make sense. They will be right back in the same boat if and when they get this cleared up and something else goes down. They should have enough data to know what saws sell the best and what parts need replacing the most and stock these to some degree. I know stock on the shelf does not make you money but it can because you can answer the call when needed but go through this and who knows how many sales you lost. 

I hope when all said and done the product they ship out has been tested and there is no further recalls or problems and Kevin and everyone else who buys one has many happy hours sawing on it. 

JT, My thoughts exactly... however I've been trying to stay neutral about my thoughts of the company and just post my experiences as they progress and let others decide what they think.. I don't really want to influence one side or the other.. just putting out there what's happening.. others can decide what they want.. I've been waiting it out more out of curiosity of what the outcome of it will be.. I ain't worried about the money either.. that stuff grows on trees around here anyway and I have jars of it buried under the foot of snow in my driveway.. anybody that wants a jar? just bring your shovel.. 

[Bill WIlson]

Maybe I'll take you up on the offer and use the $$ to buy a Hawk. 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

1 hour ago, kmmcrafts said:

JT, My thoughts exactly... however I've been trying to stay neutral about my thoughts of the company and just post my experiences as they progress and let others decide what they think.. I don't really want to influence one side or the other.. just putting out there what's happening.. others can decide what they want.. I've been waiting it out more out of curiosity of what the outcome of it will be.. I ain't worried about the money either.. that stuff grows on trees around here anyway and I have jars of it buried under the foot of snow in my driveway.. anybody that wants a jar? just bring your shovel.. 

I hear everything you are saying and you are invested in this now so you might as well see how it plays out but if you are still here in May still saying the same things we need to send a doctor to your house to see if you have a pulse.

[OCtoolguy]

I too have been following this saga. I think in the grand scheme of things, the two things that I think are WRONG are, one....the total lack of communication on the hold up of shipping your saw. And two....the fact that they bang your credit card at the instant you order the saw. If they know at that point in time that they don't have a saw to ship you, they should inform you of that and then NOT hit your CC until the moment the saw is shipped. I'm really hoping and praying for this small (?) company to survive and prosper. But, they need to get their stuff together and start acting like a real business and not a hobby of some sort.

 

[Dave Monk]

12 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

Thanks for bringing that up.. I had forgot about Dave going to tour the plant.. 

 

Kevin, I probably should have read the thread better............what part is the hold up?

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

3 hours ago, Dave Monk said:

Kevin, I probably should have read the thread better............what part is the hold up?

I think the latest thing is their CNC machine for making parts is leaking oil now. before some part for it was broke and waited for it to be milled by some outside source. The only place in the entire state from what I am reading. 

[kmmcrafts]

12 hours ago, Dave Monk said:

Kevin, I probably should have read the thread better............what part is the hold up?

 

9 hours ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

I think the latest thing is their CNC machine for making parts is leaking oil now. before some part for it was broke and waited for it to be milled by some outside source. The only place in the entire state from what I am reading. 

First in Late Jan. I called and got on the phone with some other lady and she didn't seem to know how to explain very well what was going on.. she just said something broke and they was trying to repair it.. It wasn't clear if the scroll saw broke or something of theirs LOL.. I tried my best to get more info but honestly don't think she knew what it was..

Then I called again in mid Feb. and got Nicole on the phone.. she explained that the CNC machine had a broken part.. Never said what the part was broke but the more we talked I gathered it was a electronic controller? which I doubt another machine shop can make..She said they ordered the part but it was on back order for 3-5 weeks.. but said the good news was that they had received a tracking number and UPS website showed it was at their local UPS.. so she thought it would come that day..Said they had the CNC in a million pieces scattered all about the shop.. and also said everyone's saws are put together as far as they can go with them until the CNC is repaired and can start making the parts for them.. She mentioned all these saws some being in here office etc and they have no room anywhere to move.. Think she also said something about some saws at their house LOL.. all waiting on this one last part.. She also mentioned that they tried contacting the local machine shops to see about outsourcing and getting the part made from them but they was booked out until mid March.. she did get on the wait list just in case..

My last call the other day was... The good news is the part came in and they put the machine back together..  they just fired it up and they all jumped for joy as they are all stressed and worried about this.. I said me too LOL.. but.. she said more bad news.. The coolant or oil isn't pumping and they can't run the machine until they get that fixed.. she said they was all out in the shop working on that machine trying to diagnose why it's not pumping

.. She said worst case is the local machine shop should be calling any time to make their part so they can at least get these 18 saws they have waiting for the part shipped out.. Sounded to me like they was having the local machine shop make a run of these parts whether their machine is running or not.. they set it up to have them make a run of the parts..