Squaring the Table

[Rockytime]

Don't know where I saw this idea or if I was dreaming. Theft side of the table had a bolt under it used as a stop. The bolt is adjusted up or down until the table is level. Then lock down the table and secure the bolt. I'm left handed and invariably over time my table moves slightly off square. Perhaps I place extra pressure on the table with my left hand. Has anyone seen this? The short bolt is there just to illustrate what I mean.

[fredfret]

Steve good had something like this on his blog if I remember correctly. 

[kmmcrafts]

My Hawk has a bolt on the left side and once the table is square to the blade you adjust the bolt up to be tight to the under side of the table.. then if you move it doing angle cuts you simply just move it back until it hits the bolt and it should be squared up again.. Mine has a piece of plastic / rubber cover other the threads of the bolt to protect it.. maybe to keep it from having baby bolts .. or would that be baby tables?   

[kmmcrafts]

Not sure you can see it in this photo or not.

[OCtoolguy]

Does that mean that your table will only tilt one way? I'm not understanding the situation at all. But, then again, there are a lot of situations that I don't understand lately.

 

[kmmcrafts]

31 minutes ago, octoolguy said:

Does that mean that your table will only tilt one way? I'm not understanding the situation at all. But, then again, there are a lot of situations that I don't understand lately.

 

Sort of, LOL.. The table will tilt either side but you have to remove the stop bolt. most saws I see don't have it on.. it also has holes on either side so if you mainly tilt to one side or the other you can swap sides.. I don't do angle cuts.. and if I did I'd do it on the Excalibur instead anyway.. The tilting mechanism on the Hawks is actually their biggest flaw in my opinion.. LOL. It's not the easiest to tilt for a precise angle.. at least my two Hawks aren't .. I did spray the older Hawk with some dry lube to make it move smoother.. which created a self moving table while sawing issue, LOL. 

[Rockytime]

I just drilled my stand for a 5/16 all thread. I'm making it easily adjustable to allow a small amount tilt to the left. I will never cut a basket as they do not interest me. Should I ever change my mind I can remove it. Makes it simple to always keep the table square.

[jerry1939]

I always take the old fashioned way that "Less is Better".  To square the table, I took a scrap 1/2" X 1 1/2" on edge & sawed a notch into it.  Stopped the saw, spun the wood & held it against the back of the blade.  Loosened the tilt nut, tapped the table and kept repeating until It fit the notch, until I could flip it upside down & the back of the blade always fit perfectly.  Threw the scape away & made one to save.  Bored a hole in the end & hang it by the saw.  Check it often, especially when cutting a stack.

A few years ago I Googled "Protractor".  Put the image in Inkscape & made this protractor. Printed & laminated it.  Glued it to a 1/4" scrape.  Put a blade in backwards & cut a shallow cut at the bottom point.  To tilt the table, hold the protractor behind the blade at an angle to insert the blade into the notch.  Next, pull the protractor vertical & tilt to the desired angle.  

Really like both of these.

jerry

[Rockytime]

Jerry, I have tried your first suggestion and it works. Your protractor is great. Thanks.

[Rockytime]

Got er done. I put my leveler on the saw this morning and it works perfect. Leveling was never easier.

[OCtoolguy]

Thanks Les. It looks like I may be owning one of those saws if all goes well on Wednesday. I'll have to incorporate your idea. I look forward to trying the Hawk to see how I like it. I'm not sure where I'm going to put it yet.

 

[teachnlearn]

OK I'm a nerd and love electronics and tools. LEVEL TABLE:

https://www.amazon.com/Calculated-Industries-7434-AccuMASTER-Inclinometer/dp/B0148M7P4O/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=electronic+angle+gauge&qid=1552958602&s=gateway&sr=8-4

 

https://www.amazon.com/66x10mm-Circular-Bullseye-Inclinometers-Fluorescent/dp/B074SZXXWC/ref=sr_1_3?ascsubtag=1ba00-01000-org00-win10-dsk00-nomod-us000-gatwy-feature-SEARC&keywords=bubble+level&qid=1552958540&s=gateway&sr=8-3&tag=amz-mkt-fox-us-20

Put these on our cargo trailer on the front and side to level.

https://www.amazon.com/Hopkins-8525-08525-Graduated-Level/dp/B000AA4RWM/ref=sr_1_11?keywords=bubble+level&qid=1552958799&s=gateway&sr=8-11

RJF

Edited March 19, 2019 by teachnlearn

[OCtoolguy]

2 minutes ago, teachnlearn said:

OK I'm a nerd and love electronics and tools. LEVEL TABLE:

https://www.amazon.com/Calculated-Industries-7434-AccuMASTER-Inclinometer/dp/B0148M7P4O/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=electronic+angle+gauge&qid=1552958602&s=gateway&sr=8-4

 

https://www.amazon.com/66x10mm-Circular-Bullseye-Inclinometers-Fluorescent/dp/B074SZXXWC/ref=sr_1_3?ascsubtag=1ba00-01000-org00-win10-dsk00-nomod-us000-gatwy-feature-SEARC&keywords=bubble+level&qid=1552958540&s=gateway&sr=8-3&tag=amz-mkt-fox-us-20

RJF

There is a free app that you can put on your smartphone that does that. I have it on mine. It is super accurate. FREE!

 

[teachnlearn]

1 minute ago, octoolguy said:

There is a free app that you can put on your smartphone that does that. I have it on mine. It is super accurate. FREE!

 

My wife and I own a flip phone when we hit the road we take it for safety. I can make a call and receive a call. Now all I have to do is buy a smartphone to get the free app. Nothing like being 25 years behind the time. Got that phone and took the 1000 feet of phone wire out of the trunk. RJF

[OCtoolguy]

4 minutes ago, teachnlearn said:

My wife and I own a flip phone when we hit the road we take it for safety. I can make a call and receive a call. Now all I have to do is buy a smartphone to get the free app. Nothing like being 25 years behind the time. Got that phone and took the 1000 feet of phone wire out of the trunk. RJF

And you call yourself a techy. I would prefer to have a flip phone but I'm forced to live in the 21st century by those around me. Sorry.

 

[kmmcrafts]

27 minutes ago, teachnlearn said:

OK I'm a nerd and love electronics and tools. LEVEL TABLE:

https://www.amazon.com/Calculated-Industries-7434-AccuMASTER-Inclinometer/dp/B0148M7P4O/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=electronic+angle+gauge&qid=1552958602&s=gateway&sr=8-4

 

https://www.amazon.com/66x10mm-Circular-Bullseye-Inclinometers-Fluorescent/dp/B074SZXXWC/ref=sr_1_3?ascsubtag=1ba00-01000-org00-win10-dsk00-nomod-us000-gatwy-feature-SEARC&keywords=bubble+level&qid=1552958540&s=gateway&sr=8-3&tag=amz-mkt-fox-us-20

Put these on our cargo trailer on the front and side to level.

https://www.amazon.com/Hopkins-8525-08525-Graduated-Level/dp/B000AA4RWM/ref=sr_1_11?keywords=bubble+level&qid=1552958799&s=gateway&sr=8-11

RJF

I might be out of my mind on this... but... How is that level going to be as accurate as a machinist square next to the blade.. The saw's table might be level by one of those things.. what happens if your stand or the floor the stand sits on isn't level but it shows the table is.. LOL Wouldn't this just tell if your table is level to the ground or the stand it's mounted to rather than to the blade on the saw?

Maybe I'm just confused on what your leveling.. 

 

[fredfret]

The primary use is for tilting the table as it can be referenced to the table regardless of the level Ness of the machine. 

[kmmcrafts]

8 minutes ago, fredfret said:

The primary use is for tilting the table as it can be referenced to the table regardless of the level Ness of the machine. 

Okay I now see that the electronic device can be zeroed out.. but the trailer / camper bubble type levels aren't going to do anything good for a scroll saw

[Rockytime]

43 minutes ago, octoolguy said:

There is a free app that you can put on your smartphone that does that. I have it on mine. It is super accurate. FREE!

 

Ray, I use that app all the time when leveling grandfather and similar clocks.

[teachnlearn]

44 minutes ago, octoolguy said:

And you call yourself a techy. I would prefer to have a flip phone but I'm forced to live in the 21st century by those around me. Sorry.

 

Techie by heart, vintage by the wallet. My wife and I were professional people and joined the Navy. We both came out disabled and living part of our lives in wheelchairs on VA income. Its taken 12 years to get physically stable enough to start considering getting back to self part-time work that we can control the physical and time conditions. I used to design automation for a living. Use to work around high tech all day. The highest tech we have now is our tv and laptop. RJF

Edited March 19, 2019 by teachnlearn

[teachnlearn]

12 minutes ago, kmmcrafts said:

Okay I now see that the electronic device can be zeroed out.. but the trailer / camper bubble type levels aren't going to do anything good for a scroll saw

Leveling equipment is a given to me. When I did building projects a level was always out. When a machine is set up one step was to level the machine. Level floor, a level machine with large casters rolls easily to put away. Even with a machine not level the level is going to show and you setup from there. RJF

[kmmcrafts]

7 hours ago, teachnlearn said:

Leveling equipment is a given to me. When I did building projects a level was always out. When a machine is set up one step was to level the machine. Level floor, a level machine with large casters rolls easily to put away. Even with a machine not level the level is going to show and you setup from there. RJF

I do the same thing basically but not everyone has that perfect scroll sawing area. Lots of people scroll on wood floors etc so have to be careful not to mis inform a newbie. And I’m just the kind of person that still going to use a square because it’s going to be the most accurate. IMO 

[kmmcrafts]

7 hours ago, teachnlearn said:

Techie by heart, vintage by the wallet. My wife and I were professional people and joined the Navy. We both came out disabled and living part of our lives in wheelchairs on VA income. Its taken 12 years to get physically stable enough to start considering getting back to self part-time work that we can control the physical and time conditions. I used to design automation for a living. Use to work around high tech all day. The highest tech we have now is our tv and laptop. RJF

Thank you both for serving!!

[barb.j.enders]

10 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

I might be out of my mind on this... but... How is that level going to be as accurate as a machinist square next to the blade.. The saw's table might be level by one of those things.. what happens if your stand or the floor the stand sits on isn't level but it shows the table is.. LOL Wouldn't this just tell if your table is level to the ground or the stand it's mounted to rather than to the blade on the saw?

Maybe I'm just confused on what your leveling.. 

 

I was going to ask the same thing.  My saw sits on a very unlevel floor, big angle to the drain.  I personally just take a protractor from the kids old geometry sets and hold it behind and then beside the blade.

 

[teachnlearn]

There are thousands of articles and products that are out there just to level machines and building projects. An unlevel floor and uneven walls are given for many owning and rehabbing old houses.  I've been stuck renting under HUD and its amazing the cheap garbage and weird building practices they use since their just renting for the 'poor'. if you can't level the floor either because you don't own it, or it's out of the range of expense, everything can be leveled by adjusting stands, using fillers under legs or using adjustable feet. It doesn't take much of a tilt of a scroll saw and chair to get tired fighting the tilt of the chair and readjusting your body to correct for the tilt.

My wife and I can walk a little and I can get a few feet with a cane, but any distance puts us both in wheelchairs. There are days we have been sitting waiting and the sidewalk, the floor was out of level. Since we can exactly adjust the tilt of the chair we are stuck. And at the end of the day hurting from trying to fight the tilt in our chair. Extending this to working for long periods with tilted scroll saws and chairs and you're probably going to end up more tired. There are going to be extremes on each end of the scale a one-degree tilt and probably most wouldn't notice, take that to a 45-degree tilt and you're going to be putting your foot out to keep from sliding.

One HUD apartment came to mind. The first year we were freezing. That summer I pulled the molding around the windows. There was a gap in the thickness of my hand on the sides and top. They either couldn't measure for a window or got the wrong size and threw it in.  I could look straight through and could have handed things through the gap to the outside. We are now living in a place with bad windows that was just built. The air conditioning/ heating is built wrong. The contractor came to look and said that they were 'HUD' windows and that's the way they all are. When I was discussing the problem with the heat, I could sense he had no idea what I was talking about. Asked him which way heat goes. He couldn't answer.  Yep, not everything is built level or to our standards, but things can be adjusted to correct them. I've seen many 'hacks' for around the shop and home to level furniture and shop machines. RJF

Note: I'm not trying to lecture. My training and working and interest in engineering always examining problems and looking for solutions. When my company's go complaints, they were directed to the engineering department to either solve or redesign to correct it.

Problem 1: Square of the blade to the table.

Problem 2: Measuring the angle so there is a correct measurement by the person and equipment.

Problem 3 Basic level of the saw, which may create angle measurement problems or future problems for human ergonomics and how the saw runs.

Problem 4 Stop examining the top three problems and just cut the darn pattern! RJF

Edited March 19, 2019 by teachnlearn