Hawk Is Here... Not Happy With UPS.. Hawk's Awesome Though

[kmmcrafts]

 

Well try to make this short.. My tracking number shows delivery was to be today by end of day.. I signed up on UPS to send me updates on my phone last night got a confirmation text to reply to so they know they got the right number.. did that and never another text, email or phone call.. 

I have to pick up my son everyday at school.. been nice if I could have known via phone call or something so I could be here when they came.. My daughter was home so she could have signed.. They left the thing on my porch never knocked.. or anything.. Bushton said that I'd need to sign for it.. nope they just left it here.. standing on end too.. I was fired up when I come up the road to see the huge box standing on end.. I had a feeling they'd do that.. I wondered if I missed him because as I topped the hill getting to turn on my road I seen him up the road..

I did manage to get it to the shop and put it together.. Everything seems good.. I'm amazed at how much smoother and quieter it runs compared to either of my older Hawks.. Couple things I'm not supper impressed with that I'll get into more details about later..

I wanted to video the unboxing etc. but didn't have a way to hold the phone / camera.. so I took several pictures.. I'll be editing this post shortly with pictures.. The pictures are on my phone and I didn't want to type all this on that little phone screen.. so I'll just edit in a few with pictures..

Hold tight. pictures in a min.      

 

This is how how UPS left my saw for me. 

 

    

 

Here is some pictures of opening the box. And unpacking it. 

 

I didn't want to damage the box or packaging in case I needed to send it back.. so I pulled it up on one end of the box and then got it to a point where I could just tip the box up and slide it out of the box.. quite easy to do by myself this way rather than lifting it up out of the box.. Tilting it this way it was resting on the front part of the board that it's mounted to.. I'll show some more photos of this in a few..  

 

 

They have these torx head screws holding it to the wood shipping crate.. good thing I have torx screw drivers.. Many people I know do not have these type of tools. maybe they are just old fashion.. but I'd have thought that it'd be better to use Philips head screws so you don't have to go buy tools just to get it out of the packaging LOL 

 

Tilted it on its side and used the packing foam to protect the table while I mount the legs

 

My dog.. he had to make sure nothing was here that might jump out and bite me.. He walked away and said everything was good to go... nothing harmful

 

The foot switch and the accessory table in this box.. I wanted the table.. contemplated not getting it but I find I'm always setting stuff on the saw tables of the saw next to the one I'm using.. then when I need to use the one next to me I have to clean off all the blades and pliers etc to use it.. hoping this will help.. if so I may make or order more of these for my other saws.. 

 

The Hawks table came with these spots that I thought was grease.. and may be grease but it's not coming off on my finger so I don't know. also was some spots on it like a small circle s if they had stuff setting on the table.. first thought was a soft drink can or something but was quite a lot smaller than the cans we have here in Michigan anyway, LOL.. I wasn't impressed with the professionalism of getting it that way.. but they will ( I'm sure) come off with a waxing of the table etc..  

Edited March 21, 2019 by kmmcrafts

[OCtoolguy]

4 minutes ago, kmmcrafts said:

Well try to make this short.. My tracking number shows delivery was to be today by end of day.. I signed up on UPS to send me updates on my phone last night got a confirmation text to reply to so they know they got the right number.. did that and never another text, email or phone call.. 

I have to pick up my son everyday at school.. been nice if I could have known via phone call or something so I could be here when they came.. My daughter was home so she could have signed.. They left the thing on my porch never knocked.. or anything.. Bushton said that I'd need to sign for it.. nope they just left it here.. standing on end too.. I was fired up when I come up the road to see the huge box standing on end.. I had a feeling they'd do that.. I wondered if I missed him because as I topped the hill getting to turn on my road I seen him up the road..

I did manage to get it to the shop and put it together.. Everything seems good.. I'm amazed at how much smoother and quieter it runs compared to either of my older Hawks.. Couple things I'm not supper impressed with that I'll get into more details about later..

I wanted to video the unboxing etc. but didn't have a way to hold the phone / camera.. so I took several pictures.. I'll be editing this post shortly with pictures.. The pictures are on my phone and I didn't want to type all this on that little phone screen.. so I'll just edit in a few with pictures..

Hold tight. pictures in a min.      

The "perfect" world is no longer. Those drivers are under so much pressure to deliver, they don't have time to wait for a signature anymore. I was very surprised that Bushton said that you'd have to sign. I haven't seen that in a very long time.

 

[Iguanadon]

Keep us posted Kevin.  It's Christmas in March for several of us. 

[kmmcrafts]

29 minutes ago, octoolguy said:

The "perfect" world is no longer. Those drivers are under so much pressure to deliver, they don't have time to wait for a signature anymore. I was very surprised that Bushton said that you'd have to sign. I haven't seen that in a very long time.

 

Well, I'm not sure how UPS handles this kind of thing... BUT.. my experience with mailing U.S. Mail.. If I ship something and require that there be a signature.. I have to pay for this.. Believe it's like nearly $3.00... If Bushton is paying a extra fee for signature confirmation and the drivers aren't doing it.. That's not very cool.. what's the point of paying extra for the service? I'm thinking about contacting Bushton about this.. Even though I half wonder if they even care anyway.. but then.. they care enough to pay for the service and they are getting cheated on it..  

[OCtoolguy]

4 minutes ago, kmmcrafts said:

Well, I'm not sure how UPS handles this kind of thing... BUT.. my experience with mailing U.S. Mail.. If I ship something and require that there be a signature.. I have to pay for this.. Believe it's like nearly $3.00... If Bushton is paying a extra fee for signature confirmation and the drivers aren't doing it.. That's not very cool.. what's the point of paying extra for the service? I'm thinking about contacting Bushton about this.. Even though I half wonder if they even care anyway.. but then.. they care enough to pay for the service and they are getting cheated on it..  

I'd contact them for that reason and also to let them know that their packaging held up and our saw came through in great condition. I'm sure they would appreciate knowing both.

 

[Scrappile]

UPS use to be a great company, but I do not think they can even spell customer service anymore.  I had a go around with them a few weeks ago and really all I wanted was to call the local terminal and talk to someone there.  No, I mean no one would give me the phone number.  Kept telling me I could drive there and talk to someone, never mind it was a 50 mile trip for me..  The only CS person I could talk to was back east.  They were no help. just kept repeating to me what the tracking said... duh, I knew that, I can read...  Honestly I get better service locally with Fedex.

[Iguanadon]

I found this hilarious and brilliant when I read it a couple of years ago.  Now the scroll saw manufacturers just need to figure out what to put on their shipping boxes to get the same treatment... Maybe mark it as a nuclear bomb. 

https://www.bicycling.com/news/a20027122/vanmoof-tv-on-box-damaged-bikes/

[teachnlearn]

Now the new crime it grabbing packages left they UPS. RJF

[kmmcrafts]

My initial thoughts on this saw.. without having cut on it yet... Overall I've only run it enough to just see that it runs.. I haven't done any tuning due to the fact that I usually do all the adjusting in the spot where the saw will be parked at.. and I don't have that spot ready for the saw.. Anyway running it though the speeds it's much quieter and smoother than either of my other Hawks throughout the speed range.. There is one area that has some vibration ( which my other two Hawks also have ) which seems to be just before the halfway mark on the speed dial.. 

Couple things stand out to me as being somewhat cheap made.. or maybe poorly designed compared to the older Hawks.. Both are probably not anything to really be worrisome about as far as the function of the saw goes..

First is the front mounting bracket where the angle adjustment mechanism is.. This is made from what appears to be plastic.. The old saws are made and machined from aluminum.. This bracket being made with the plastic piece seems to have some slight flex to it if your really pushing on one side or the other of the table.. I'm not certain the plastic piece is flexing but the clamp portion allows some movement.. The same sort of case with the older Hawk too so like I said.. not sure the plastic piece is any concern... I just sort of expected it would have been machined aluminum as the old Hawks are.. The back side of the locking mechanism is kind of just a small piece of steel to pinch the thing to tighten it. ( I'll try posting some photos tomorrow of this and she the difference between the two Hawks ) ..

Second,  More of a cosmetic thing but also a bit concerning for long term over the years.. probably a petty thing but I'm old school and I've experienced this with other newer machinery.. The model / serial number tag is more less a sticker.. When I unboxed my saw I noticed this tag was already somewhat peeling off.. I'll likely add some glue to this to stick it back down as I don't want that coming off and getting lost.. While I did take a photo of it so at least I have the model and serial number should something happen to it..Just easily removed for a thieve.. 

I'll likely not be cutting on this saw until next week.. I have a somewhat busy weekend coming up.. though I may get out there to mess with it some. but won't really get a good run on it until next week      

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Kevin at least it is in your hands and how well it cuts is to be determined. But have a couple questions. First off was there any stickers on the box saying to not stand on edge or this side up or any warning of any kind??

 

Next if you can take a photo of the blade clamps both top and bottom. Something looks different than the older ones like I have.

Also I thought they hollowed out the arm. Is it hollowed under the arm?? The model before had an I beam shape to help with the weight factor. from your photo of it on the floor it does not look hollowed out. 

Does the arm raise as much as the older models??  Does it have the same bearing system in the back. From the photos it doesn't look like it. 

Just from photos it looks different in a few ways. 

look forward to your review and how the movement of the blade for aggressiveness helps you. Because I think that was a complaint of yours as well as Iggys when he had one. I have to say I have never seen one of these models up close or had a chance to scroll on one. Have to live the experience through people like you. 

[kmmcrafts]

8 hours ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

Kevin at least it is in your hands and how well it cuts is to be determined. But have a couple questions. First off was there any stickers on the box saying to not stand on edge or this side up or any warning of any kind??

 

Next if you can take a photo of the blade clamps both top and bottom. Something looks different than the older ones like I have.

Also I thought they hollowed out the arm. Is it hollowed under the arm?? The model before had an I beam shape to help with the weight factor. from your photo of it on the floor it does not look hollowed out. 

Does the arm raise as much as the older models??  Does it have the same bearing system in the back. From the photos it doesn't look like it. 

Just from photos it looks different in a few ways. 

look forward to your review and how the movement of the blade for aggressiveness helps you. Because I think that was a complaint of yours as well as Iggys when he had one. I have to say I have never seen one of these models up close or had a chance to scroll on one. Have to live the experience through people like you. 

JT,  Yes there was stickers on the box.. but that said the placement of the stickers basically marked the top side of the box.. with no arrows pointed "UP" so they could have been interpreted differently... and the driver could have thought the box was supposed to stand on end.. I'll mention this to Bushton when I call.. I'm going to let them know about not having to sign for the package.. as I'm quite certain that is a paid add-on and they shouldn't be paying if the drivers aren't doing it. While on this topic.. not sure ow many of you have experienced this... but... Many times in signing these electronic devices the things are quirky and the signature doesn't look like your handwriting.. the driver or whoever almost always says.. oh thats okay it just needs a mark on there to show you signed.. I don't like this.. simply because in this case.. the driver could have.. and probably did sign it himself.. "Only needs a mark to be accepted"..  his word against mine about being signed... My bank has these same stupid electronic signing things.. Just something to think about.. Probably should start another post about this.. so more might see it.. But really.. how good is your signature if the electronic thing is not very accurate in showing your signature.. anybody can put a mark on it and say it was signed..

I'll update with some pictures of the bearing, and clamp area and a couple other observations shortly..  

[kmmcrafts]

They did hollow out the arm, maybe the angle of the saw didn’t show that too well. They also hollowed out that back side of the connecting rod from motor to lower arm. 

Some more detailed pictures that hopefully can see the arm etc. 

Maybe once I get the saw back into the work area I’ll do a video of the two saws and show comparisons etc. shop is a mess right now as my son is redesigning his bedroom and we have all his old desk dressers etc scattered about. Lol 

 

Note the bracket I was talking about earlier.. plastic instead of machined aluminum like the older saws... Not sure this is critical but.. still cheapened up from the old style Hawk... Maybe Rolf will chime in on this.. I know the G4 has the arm protrude the angle mechanism.. I'm wondering if this piece is plastic on those..

 

 

Not sure if this is visible to you all but the lower blade clamp here.. and they have a ( assuming ) spring steel retainer to hold it in place.. better design than the plastic piece on the earlier saws. 

 

 

Same set up on the upper clamp.. has the spring steel clip to hold the clamp in place.. This design somewhat makes it so you really do not need to remove the clamps to change blades.. Time will tell once I use the saw what I think about this set up.. 

 

I bought the accessory tray.... I know this is the same design that they've had for years.. I'm uncertain how I feel about this piece.. It's only held on with one bolt and it sort of rest on the saws platform at the back for stability.. I'd think two bolts would make it much more sturdy.. the table is heavy steel.. Not that one should be putting heavy stuff on this anyway.... but the design makes it somewhat wimpy so you cannot put any weight on it.. Maybe designed this way on purpose so you don't set on it.     

Those plastic tubes... not impressed with those at all... very thin cheap made tubes.. they are supposed to fit in the slots where the rubber grommets are.. not quite sure how.. you about smash the tubes just trying to get them in.. may try some soapy water to make them slide on the grommets and see if that helps.. 

Edited March 22, 2019 by kmmcrafts

[ScollSaw Slasher]

Two things Kevin. In this modern age, signatures don't mean a thing. The box stores don't even ask for your signatures under a sizable limit. Somebody get your credit card and they could rack up thousands in a New York minute. Secondly. Anything shipped by UPS that is somewhat heavy is a recipe for disaster. Used to ship a heavy television display cabinet for a company I contracted out of Canada. Had a 15% damage rate. Yes, I could have had custom made Styrofoam packing made up for the parts, but would have cost thousands which wouldn't be very cost effective when I only shipped two to three a week. But I'm loving the pictures and the on going review as I'm laid up with a bad back and haven't touched any woodworking in six weeks.

Blake

[kmmcrafts]

2 minutes ago, ScollSaw Slasher said:

Two things Kevin. In this modern age, signatures don't mean a thing. The box stores don't even ask for your signatures under a sizable limit. Somebody get your credit card and they could rack up thousands in a New York minute. Secondly. Anything shipped by UPS that is somewhat heavy is a recipe for disaster. Used to ship a heavy television display cabinet for a company I contracted out of Canada. Had a 15% damage rate. Yes, I could have had custom made Styrofoam packing made up for the parts, but would have cost thousands which wouldn't be very cost effective when I only shipped two to three a week. But I'm loving the pictures and the on going review as I'm laid up with a bad back and haven't touched any woodworking in six weeks.

Blake

Sorry to hear about the back injury.. that is one of the worst things to deal with... many live daily with back pain.. Hope you get to feeling much better and can get out and make some sawdust.

 

Makes sense cost wise in your case to not make custom packing.. Maybe the same case as for Bushton.. 

 

I agree about the signatures... would be nice to see fingerprint stuff but then that'd be hacked in some way too.. they already have readers for phones etc.. now I've heard of eye reader things, LOL

[bcdennis]

Last year FedEx delivered my Jet upside down.  I was not happy. 

 

[Scrappile]

My view is, and just a view, but things have to be packaged for tough handling.  A lot of the handling is by machines, not people and it is pretty chaotic from what I hear, I have not seen inside a big distribution center with all the machines, but have had it described to me.  Boxes tumbled, pushed and shoved by machines.... Not just humans getting it from one place to another... so it has to be packaged to take it. 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

I have seen FedX in action because we built a plant for them and yes there is automation to a point and packages do fly and have seen them fly off the conveyors. Loading on trucks is manual and again yes conveyor are sometimes used but not always and the throwing method is employed. Some of those people should try out for some baseball teams. 

 

Keven that spring steel clip is something I did years ago on mine because those plastic ones stretch out. Thanks for the photos. There are some different things there and probably because of the system to make this a top and bottom feeder and more adjustable. Good luck with it. 

[hotshot]

Time to put a nickel on the very end closest to you, crank that speed to full on, and see how it does. 

Also, if you have a new fancy phone, try taking a normal speed video, then slow motion video of the blade from the side, and front with the saw wide open.  That will show the stability of the blade. 

------Randy

Edited March 22, 2019 by hotshot

[kmmcrafts]

It'll definitely pass the nickle test.. it's a lot smoother than my 226 Ultra and the Ultra is smoother than the old 220VS.. I haven't done any tuning or anything to it yet short of just putting the legs on it.. There is a harmonic imbalance where it picks up some shakes.. right before about half speed.. which all my Hawks have this... the new one seems smoother in that shaky position too.. but probably not by much.. 

I think I might get the vibration app on my phone just to see where all the saws I have stand.. Aside from that Harmonic imbalance I'd say they're a little smoother running than my Excalibur.. but.. the EX is smoother throughout the whole spectrum than the Hawks.. The EX isn't as smooth as my DeWalt even.. but many say it's smoother than the DeWalt.. Though I do need to work on the EX some more now that I got everything running right.. so not a fair call on that yet.. EX is smooth.. but.. I've had a lot of issues with the EX.. and some things on the saw was loose when I got it straight out of the box.. so I'm thinking the workers at the factory are letting some skip by QC.. Just read yesterday about the same sort of issues with a Pegas brand that a guy just got.. it was on a FB group.. he called Bear Wood and they went through the whole saw with him over the phone.. So that being said... Maybe I should give BW more credit than I do... They left me with a sour spot by holding out on mailing my order for 3 weeks..  and have read some of the same things from others...  But it looks like they do try to work with issues if one has some.. and that's a good thing this day and age..

 

[kmmcrafts]

Okay, LOL... so looking for a app to measure vibration.. I learn more than I needed too.... word to the wise.. careful how you word your search term when searching something like that... Who knew there was... well never mind.. not going there with that one..   

[Rockytime]

Great, great photos!