Wonder How Long This Will Take

[kmmcrafts]

6 minutes ago, Rolf said:

Kevin I agree with you I have no love for red Oak, don't like the grain or as you say the smell.  The only Oak I do like is the quarter sawn white Oak that I used for a dining room table insert. 

How long is it taking you for each one.?

The first two I was using the Excalibur.. not real used to that saw yet.. cutting time on the first one was 2.3 hours.. the second one was 2 hours.. I switched to the Hawk for the third one and while I'm not done cutting.. I'm less than one hour in and more than 3/4 done.. so guessing right around 1 hour.. This is cutting the cross and the base.. I estimated my time on each of them to be 1.5 hours start to finish.. so I'm not too far off that.. as not much time involved with sanding and finishing... I really need to bump up the price slightly on them.. I don't sell many of them.. but have them to bring in the wedding shoppers and they see my other things, LOL 

[rjweb]

That cutting would take me 3 days, of course I don’t do much cutting but it gets done, RJ 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

2 hours ago, Rolf said:

Kevin I agree with you I have no love for red Oak, don't like the grain or as you say the smell.  The only Oak I do like is the quarter sawn white Oak that I used for a dining room table insert. 

How long is it taking you for each one.?

It is good to know there is this dislike for oak. I will have to stop showing my projects here because many people hate looking at oak and being that is about all I use and cut no sense showing any more projects done in oak. Or maybe what I will do is include a disclaimer when I show something. I can include this warning " graphic photos!!! oak haters do not look" I love working and looking at all woods. I did learn something from this thread though. 

[kmmcrafts]

1 hour ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

It is good to know there is this dislike for oak. I will have to stop showing my projects here because many people hate looking at oak and being that is about all I use and cut no sense showing any more projects done in oak. Or maybe what I will do is include a disclaimer when I show something. I can include this warning " graphic photos!!! oak haters do not look" I love working and looking at all woods. I did learn something from this thread though. 

I like oak to look at.. but cutting it is another story.. finishing it isn't as easy either for someone like me that needs to get a piece mailed out.. I want simple easy just dip and dry.... also in some cases I need quick non smell for mailing out.. in the winter when orders come in.. I use beeswax and mineral oil mix.. because I can brush it on and use a hairdryer / heat gun to melt it into all the cutouts.. It's not real quick to do.. but I can mail out the same day I finish it... no smell and no drying time.. As you know... Danish oils and other finishes don't dry too well in the colder damp weather..  I know you always swear by just dipping in Danish oil.. but I've never had the luck of it with oak.. it bleeds out for a long time and then also will gum up in spots to create shiny droplets of clear build up on it.. assuming the poly that's in  Danish oil.. Now.. IF I take my time and wipe it on so it doesn't get drenched in the stuff and I can avoid some of these things.. But since I don't care to cut it.. or finish it.. and cherry is a nice wood to work with.. I chose that to be my main wood to use.. I keep oak and other timbers on hand and offer it to customers.. some ask for oak.. but most don't really even care what wood it's made of..   

[OCtoolguy]

1 hour ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

It is good to know there is this dislike for oak. I will have to stop showing my projects here because many people hate looking at oak and being that is about all I use and cut no sense showing any more projects done in oak. Or maybe what I will do is include a disclaimer when I show something. I can include this warning " graphic photos!!! oak haters do not look" I love working and looking at all woods. I did learn something from this thread though. 

I like working with oak generally. I'm still too new to scrolling to know what wood cuts best. So, all these threads are great info for me. So far I have found that poplar, mahogany and maple all cut pretty well. I haven't found any problems yet with red oak. But, I have only been working with 1/4" stuff so that might make a difference too. I do know for sure though that 1 1/2" douglas fir is not good for much.

 

[Rockytime]

I cut 1/2" oak from Lowe's or HF. It cuts ok for me with a #1 Pegas mg blade. Don't know what kind of oak it is. Hoping someone will tell me. It has been explained on here before but I forget.

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

7 hours ago, Rockytime said:

I cut 1/2" oak from Lowe's or HF. It cuts ok for me with a #1 Pegas mg blade. Don't know what kind of oak it is. Hoping someone will tell me. It has been explained on here before but I forget.

It is red oak. White oak is more expensive so Lowes will not carry it. You can tell if it has a reddish hint to it. White oak looks alot like Ash wood. White oak is tougher to cut. http://www.differencebetween.net/science/nature/difference-between-red-oak-and-white-oak/

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

10 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

I like oak to look at.. but cutting it is another story.. finishing it isn't as easy either for someone like me that needs to get a piece mailed out.. I want simple easy just dip and dry.... also in some cases I need quick non smell for mailing out.. in the winter when orders come in.. I use beeswax and mineral oil mix.. because I can brush it on and use a hairdryer / heat gun to melt it into all the cutouts.. It's not real quick to do.. but I can mail out the same day I finish it... no smell and no drying time.. As you know... Danish oils and other finishes don't dry too well in the colder damp weather..  I know you always swear by just dipping in Danish oil.. but I've never had the luck of it with oak.. it bleeds out for a long time and then also will gum up in spots to create shiny droplets of clear build up on it.. assuming the poly that's in  Danish oil.. Now.. IF I take my time and wipe it on so it doesn't get drenched in the stuff and I can avoid some of these things.. But since I don't care to cut it.. or finish it.. and cherry is a nice wood to work with.. I chose that to be my main wood to use.. I keep oak and other timbers on hand and offer it to customers.. some ask for oak.. but most don't really even care what wood it's made of..   

Well Kevin why did you make the cross in oak in the first place??  You mentioned all good reasons to not even show oak on your sites. Do not even offer it. You can get in a position like you are now with cutting oak unless you are making all those crosses out of cherry. You do know you can seal any wood with shellac and then top coat with a poly or lacquer and be done in one day with finish and no smell. Just being contradictory because I am an oak fan. I do like cherry as well and would finish the same way. 

[kmmcrafts]

8 hours ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

Well Kevin why did you make the cross in oak in the first place??  You mentioned all good reasons to not even show oak on your sites. Do not even offer it. You can get in a position like you are now with cutting oak unless you are making all those crosses out of cherry. You do know you can seal any wood with shellac and then top coat with a poly or lacquer and be done in one day with finish and no smell. Just being contradictory because I am an oak fan. I do like cherry as well and would finish the same way. 

Going to try that finishing method on a piece of scrap.. I have a quart of shellac.. well it's probably bad now .. as I believe there is a shelf life.. and it's at least 8 years old.. but I have a couple spray cans too.. I like oak... don't absolutely hate cutting it but have other types of wood I prefer to cut.. The finishing part is something that just ads to the dislike of oak.. Lots of people like oak.. and I like to offer it.. If the whole process could be made easier with oak.. I wouldn't be against using it more.. It does cut nice and look nice.. stinks and finish has always been my hang up in using it more..

[Rolf]

Jt you do take a different spin on things.  I cut wood that appeals to me. If smell were the only reason for not cutting oak I would not be doing much cutting at all.

I think it was Sycamore that smelled like cow dung, walnut has a very sour aroma, mulberry has a nice sweet aroma. Spanish cedar one of my favorites leaves a nasty bitter taste in my mouth. ( that was before I got my dust under control) Baltic birch ply actually makes me a bit nauseous, so  I always wore a half mask when cutting it. 

Visually I like red oak for furniture and flooring.  For fretwork I feel the grain detracts from the details. JMO. I have also watched a magnificent highly detailed fretwork basket cut in red oak (1/4") literally self destruct because of a huge humidity change. That was when I did a presentation on woodworking at one of the FC open houses.

So Jt feel free to corner the Oak market, I am sure that your beautiful work sells very well.

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Rolf everyone has their preferences when it comes to what materials they like to work with for whatever reasons they choose. But what I am pointing out is there are ways around finishing woods if that is one of the reasons. Now you mentioned humidity change cause a disaster. what to say the same thing would not happen with another wood species??  Can not force someone to like the looks of wood grain and if people choose to not wear safety equipment when working in the shop, can't fix stupid as they say. But you are correct everyone's tastes are different.

I was just jabbing Kevin in a friendly manner. I mean nothing by it. His work is outstanding. 

[Gonzo]

On March 30, 2019 at 12:55 PM, kmmcrafts said:

 .. I want simple easy just dip and dry.... also in some cases I need quick non smell for mailing out.. in the winter when orders come in.. I use beeswax and mineral oil mix.. because I can brush it on and use a hairdryer / heat gun to melt it into all the cutouts.. It's not real quick to do.. but I can mail out the same day I finish it... no smell and no drying time.. As you know... Danish oils and other finishes don't dry too well in the colder damp weather..  

Kevin, not to hijack the thread, but what is your ratio of beeswax and mineral oil. 

[kmmcrafts]

9 hours ago, Gonzo said:

Kevin, not to hijack the thread, but what is your ratio of beeswax and mineral oil. 

1/2 cup shaved beeswax packed into the measuring cup to a 16oz bottle of mineral oil.. Mix it on the stove but be sure to use a thermometer that clips on the pan and about 1/4 inch above the bottom of the pan.... flash point is 150F don't let it get that hot, LOL I typically heat it up to right about 140-145 ish and turn off the burner.. stir with a spoon and it'll usually all melt and mix together.. Then pour into your containers.. 

I apply this mix with flux brushes or acid brushes.  Maybe I should do a video on this. Hmm.. Have so many video ideas but so little desire to set up camera, LOL 

[Rolf]

I made a mix of the beeswax also and use it on some turnings. 

Kevin how big is this cross.? I must have missed it somewhere. 

I do like beautiful grain, I used Bocote for one of the projects I did for FC. It is a very dense wood. All wood moves but some woods grain structure really weakens it.  

Has anyone ever seen or used any quarter sawn Red Oak. ?

[MrsN]

On 3/29/2019 at 9:05 PM, Woodmaster1 said:

Believe or not I loved going to school everyday for 40yrs. It was a great job. I taught industrial arts and engineering and it was something different everyday. To teach something you enjoy as a hobby adds to the pleasure. The biggest challenge to teaching is not the students it's the administration and parents lack of support. 

I am currently an industrial arts and engineering teacher. I love going to school everyday. 

[kmmcrafts]

1 hour ago, Rolf said:

I made a mix of the beeswax also and use it on some turnings. 

Kevin how big is this cross.? I must have missed it somewhere. 

I do like beautiful grain, I used Bocote for one of the projects I did for FC. It is a very dense wood. All wood moves but some woods grain structure really weakens it.  

Has anyone ever seen or used any quarter sawn Red Oak. ?

Cross stands about 11 inch tall and around 8 wide.. I'm actually cutting these from quarter sawn Red Oak. 

[OCtoolguy]

1 hour ago, MrsN said:

I am currently an industrial arts and engineering teacher. I love going to school everyday. 

I envy you. I'm too old now. Sad.

 

[Rolf]

1 hour ago, MrsN said:

I am currently an industrial arts and engineering teacher. I love going to school everyday. 

We need more teachers like you! This country needs more kids with these skill sets. We had a heck of time trying to find a suitable replacement for me when I retired. The ability to think and solve problems is very rare. Our department now has found several brilliant and driven young folks one young lady absolutely blows my mind with her drive and skills. I hope she doesn't get bored an leaves them.

[OCtoolguy]

2 hours ago, Rolf said:

We need more teachers like you! This country needs more kids with these skill sets. We had a heck of time trying to find a suitable replacement for me when I retired. The ability to think and solve problems is very rare. Our department now has found several brilliant and driven young folks one young lady absolutely blows my mind with her drive and skills. I hope she doesn't get bored an leaves them.

There is a tv commercial that shows two "millenials" with a flat tire. They don't have a clue what a lug wrench is for or what it looks like. I know it's an extreme example but not far from the truth. I think all girls should take an auto shop class and all boys should take home economics. It just makes sense. Bill O'Reilly said one night on his show " We need folks who know how to fix stuff". TRU DAT!

 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

I know this topic is wavering off course but if anyone watches This Old House, there is a push on the show to incorporate apprentices in the show. They make it a point to show and mention there is a shortage of skilled labor  in the market these days. Yes computer skills are great but still need those hands on people that can build and fix things. Again the fast pace world we have become people do not want to take time to learn simple skills. Just pick a phone up and they call someone. 

[Gonzo]

13 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

1/2 cup shaved beeswax packed into the measuring cup to a 16oz bottle of mineral oil.. Mix it on the stove but be sure to use a thermometer that clips on the pan and about 1/4 inch above the bottom of the pan.... flash point is 150F don't let it get that hot, LOL I typically heat it up to right about 140-145 ish and turn off the burner.. stir with a spoon and it'll usually all melt and mix together.. Then pour into your containers.. 

I apply this mix with flux brushes or acid brushes.  Maybe I should do a video on this. Hmm.. Have so many video ideas but so little desire to set up camera, LOL 

Thank you!  So do you heat up the mixture before you apply it to your project? 

[OCtoolguy]

5 hours ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

I know this topic is wavering off course but if anyone watches This Old House, there is a push on the show to incorporate apprentices in the show. They make it a point to show and mention there is a shortage of skilled labor  in the market these days. Yes computer skills are great but still need those hands on people that can build and fix things. Again the fast pace world we have become people do not want to take time to learn simple skills. Just pick a phone up and they call someone. 

I watch that show all the time and I'm happy to see that they are pushing the trades. Mike Rowe is behind a lot of it. He is a great guy and someone that the younger folks look up to.

 

[kmmcrafts]

10 minutes ago, Gonzo said:

Thank you!  So do you heat up the mixture before you apply it to your project? 

Nope, when the mix is cooked properly it should be the consistency of between a loose gel and a paste wax.. If you get this mix too firm.. you can always re-heat it, melt it back to liquid and adding more oil.. or if too runny then add a little beeswax.. I don't know that there is a right or wrong way to make it.. After I apply it.. I'll usually let it set for an hour or so... then heat the finished piece with the wife's hair dryer ( don't tell her  ) so the wax melts in good and then wipe off excess with paper towels.. it leaves the wood with a light sheen and feels smoother than before.. I like it very much but is time consuming to brush the stuff on.. especially in all the fretwork areas.. the advantage for me is.. no smell.. and in the winter I brush the stuff on here in the house where it's warm.. and I can ship the piece out the same day if needed..

IF you don't want to hassle trying to make it.. they sell the stuff in some stores and online.. it's just cutting board finish / renew.. most cutting boards just have mineral oil but they do sell a oil wax mix.. for them.. I know they have more than just mineral oil and beeswax in this stuff.. or at least I think they do.. but this stuff is runny compared to what I make..

https://www.woodcraft.com/products/howard-butcher-block-conditioner-2-fl-oz?gclid=Cj0KCQjw7YblBRDFARIsAKkK-dKW6qW4xS6AP6piilGxUsEtOMtJR6dHEcEFVP8ctR7lGquTKx2JWLAaAgaBEALw_wcB     

[kmmcrafts]

I didn't get much cutting time in today.. had to go to the secretary of state to register my son's moped he just bought and he had to take a test.. That place is a joke... I got there before the doors open in the morning.. about 15 minutes before.. walked in and there was a line at the door.. They was on number 42 and we had number 58.. two tellers at the counter.. and just over one hour wait to get to us.. I stopped in there last Friday.. picked my number and had 50 and they was on number 02.. with 12 people standing in the return line.. sometimes they are quick so I waited 30 minutes.. and in the time I waited they only called up two of the return line folks and never did get to any of the people with numbers so I left..LOL.. I didn't get back home until almost noon..

Anyway I got almost half of the crosses cut.. Unfortunately I have errand every single day this week so.. I'm only working half days.. should be able to get the rest of them cut out by Friday.. though.. That's my goal anyway so i can get the finish on them next week.. and ship them out by mid - late week next week.. Meanwhile I got another bigger order over the weekend to make.. February was kinda dead for business with only about $900 in sales for the whole month March was slow at first but second half got me swamped with orders... LOL Gave about 6 different custom order quotes today.. maybe business is picking up slightly again.. 

[John B]

Good on you for not caving in on the price Kevin.
I can't quite get my head around some purchasers that think it takes less time to  per item to make multiples than it does to make one. Occasionally yep, when you can stack cut etc. but unless you set up and assembly type line and do a hundred or more there is very little difference.