Wall Clock Backers?

[kmmcrafts]

I can't remember if I asked this before yet or not.. 

Okay so I've been on a roll with making some wall clocks.. I've been cutting these out of 1/8 BB plywood.. and got quite a stack of clocks now that need backers.. What I normally did in the past was to cut the backers out of 1/4" Walnut plywood and use a clock movement with hands etc.. However the clock movement sticking out the back made the clock sit out away from the wall.. Not horrible looking but not what I consider a top quality clock either.. On one had I liked it because I could stack cut 3 of the 1/8" and then before I cutout the outline I could tape the 3 Walnut blanks to the stack and cut all these clocks and backers at once... makes for a fairly quick wall clock making process.. But as I said.. I think they'd look a whole lot better with recessing the movement at least some.. and actually my new clocks I'm making to replace the sold out ones with I'm considering using large clock inserts.. I think they would look a lot better than just the hands etc..

If I do these with inserts, I would run into a issue.. I have a small drill press and the wall clocks are quite large 10 - 12" diameter.. so I would have to drill with the bug 3" forstner bit with my hand drill, LOL.. Not sure that would be a very wise move.. The other issue I have is.. I normally use Walnut as a backer for color contrast.. I'd need to do these ( IMO ) from a solid wood to get a nice look on the edges of the cutout backer.. Now.. finding 10 - 13" wood isn't a huge deal but in talking solid walnut a board like that gets quite pricey.. I could do glue ups which would allow me to use some of the walnut lumber I already have.. What are some other ideal and options to make a nice backer? I'm not against painting them but I also don't like the idea of gluing a painted backer to the clock face cutout.. But.. I really have considered two things since walnut lumber is quite pricey. I don't have a lot of experience in staining.. but had thought about using Poplar or pine? and staining the backers or buying 3/4" plywood and painting.. Since these are items I'm selling and trying to keep the cost down on the finished clocks.. I'm not really wanting to get too involved with glue ups and staining, LOL as those both are much more added time.. but I'm not looking to make a crappy looking clock either.. so I may end up just raising my prices about $20 and make a nice clock.. 

 

If you was making wall clocks that needed backers etc in this situation.. how would you go about making them with keeping production time in mind and I like to keep things streamlined and easy.. Not looking to do 30 different colors and giving customers a 100 choices to choose from LOL I like it simple.. If that makes any sense.. Oh.. If I did paint... It'd be via spray cans.. I'm not fooling with brushes and brush cleaning etc etc... Might consider doing several 30-50 at once and using my spray equipment. though..    

[Dave Monk]

I use a lot of 1/2" Baltic birch for backer and stain it Jacobean. This clock is 14" x 14" so I would not be able to use a solid backer. I never get any negative comments about the edges. I also paint them black at times. I stack cut the front five at a time and cut the backers individually. 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Easy and fast and nice used in the same sentence is not in my vocabulary and never will be. I understand you are into quick sales so if you used BB for the face than why not for the back and paint it. Use spray cans. Can not get get any quicker than that. A black background works great. Save the walnut for special projects. The hole for clock inserts is not that large. It is the size of a clock motor depending what type you get. I told you this when you bought those toys that a nice drill press is worth more than any CNC machine. You can always route the backs out for the insert or scroll it. 

[kmmcrafts]

1 hour ago, Dave Monk said:

I use a lot of 1/2" Baltic birch for backer and stain it Jacobean. This clock is 14" x 14" so I would not be able to use a solid backer. I never get any negative comments about the edges. I also paint them black at times. I stack cut the front five at a time and cut the backers individually. 

Dave do you recess the clock motor or just hang it off the back? I don't have a problem drilling the small holes for the clock movements like you use and like I used in this photo of one of my clocks.. This is cut from 1/8 BB and have a 1/4 Walnut ply backer... I may buy some 1/2 BB and paint or stain it.. I like the look of the walnut ply.. But I think if I went thicker walnut ply then the edges would be seen more and give a cheap look to it.. at least BB ply has a solid striped wood look to it compared to the cheap plywood like I been using..

I've been thinking of using a clock insert as opposed to just the motor and hands. so I'd need to drill a 3" hole with a forstner bit.. that's a big bit for a hand drill, LOL The gun clock is an example of the inserts I'd like to try using on some of the bigger clocks..

What glue do you use to glue the painted backer? or stained for that matter?  any issues with glue holding? I've always been a little sketchy on gluing to painted surface.. was always told to only glue wood to wood with wood type glues..This is why you'll see about all my projects are walnut backers.. LOL

 

[kmmcrafts]

1 hour ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

Easy and fast and nice used in the same sentence is not in my vocabulary and never will be. I understand you are into quick sales so if you used BB for the face than why not for the back and paint it. Use spray cans. Can not get get any quicker than that. A black background works great. Save the walnut for special projects. The hole for clock inserts is not that large. It is the size of a clock motor depending what type you get. I told you this when you bought those toys that a nice drill press is worth more than any CNC machine. You can always route the backs out for the insert or scroll it. 

If I would take the time to learn and run that CNC I could route out the whole clock and the hole for the insert, LOL  I'm workin on learning it.. Also doing about 2 times the business this year so far over last.. so my time keeps getting more limited.. at some point I need to do this learning.. it's like having hired an employee without paying them once the machine earns it's keep.. 

Anyway I think I'm going to try painting the BB as you said.. something I've been wanting to try doing.. I'm not a huge fan of painting wood.. but some backers on rojects do look very nice painted.. those that don't look good are mostly because of poor prep sanding etc for the paint.. 

[Dave Monk]

27 minutes ago, kmmcrafts said:

If I would take the time to learn and run that CNC I could route out the whole clock and the hole for the insert, LOL  I'm workin on learning it.. Also doing about 2 times the business this year so far over last.. so my time keeps getting more limited.. at some point I need to do this learning.. it's like having hired an employee without paying them once the machine earns it's keep.. 

Anyway I think I'm going to try painting the BB as you said.. something I've been wanting to try doing.. I'm not a huge fan of painting wood.. but some backers on rojects do look very nice painted.. those that don't look good are mostly because of poor prep sanding etc for the paint.. 

I spray all my backers with black lacquer.  I glue on the plywood with Weldbond.  It holds awesome. Then I spray over the whole thing with clear Lacquer. I use a Titan Flexspray and have several cupheads for all the colors I use.  I clean mine about once every three months. I don't recess my clocks.   i

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

When I made these last year I painted the backboard flat black and flat blue. The maple overlay was glued with clear epoxy. Then entire thing was sprayed with satin deft lacquer. Do need to make a couple more of the black ones. They were the better seller. That backboard piece was 3/8" thick. BB

[rjweb]

Those patterns are very nice, but here we are again, on the other post they were talking about copyright, and here is Dallas Cowboys and the navy, is that illegal, looks great to me, RJ 

[teachnlearn]

One thought is using a thick strip molding around the edge of the back creating a recess of the thickness of the strip. Backing could be applied or left open for easy battery change. The molding would cover the outside so no one but the owner would know the back is open. RJF

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

25 minutes ago, rjweb said:

Those patterns are very nice, but here we are again, on the other post they were talking about copyright, and here is Dallas Cowboys and the navy, is that illegal, looks great to me, RJ 

I can only speak on the Navy projects because I did them. They are from a Steve Good pattern. Are they legal?? I have no idea because again did Steve have rights to do the pattern, have no idea. How many times do you you need to pay for rights. So what I go by is if no one says anything then so be it and until someone puts a piece of paper in my hand saying I can not do it then I will continue to make things. I have been selling military projects for over 35 years and have not been called on it and I sold in malls across NJ as well as large craft shows.  

[kmmcrafts]

21 hours ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

The maple overlay was glued with clear epoxy

 

Any particular type or brand of epoxy.. I was at Walmart today looking and I bought a epoxy that was the only one they had that was self mixing and had a application tube to squeeze the epoxy out and apply.. The package does say translucent yellow.. while some of the others show clear.. but appeared to have to gob a pool of it and mix it with a Popsicle stick.. didn't think it'd be all that easy to apply to some of the smaller areas with those type.. so I got the one and had the little applicators.. Not sure how well it works but I have a piece I'm making for a friend that I'll try it on..

I didn't see the weld-bond stuff that Dave uses.. They did have that E6000 ? but I'm pretty certain I used that one time for something and I wasn't impressed..   

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

I use this stuff for things I need clear adhesive. It says 5 min set but I have been able to work it 10 mins. I apply using my sponge method as I mentioned in a previous post. Works for me. https://www.lowes.com/pd/JB-Weld-ClearWeld-Clear-Epoxy-Adhesive/1000820870?store_code=1862&k_clickID=bi_272560535_1310618047997262_81913665859998_pla-4585513246605193:aud-806056765_c_&msclkid=50a19fe8ab631e54c6f4c2ed1a2b2c24 

[edward]

I use Tite Bond 3  to glue my projects to the backer, and never had a problem.

[kmmcrafts]

Okay, thought I'd update this since I have tried a couple of different backer options.. 

 

I went and bought some 1/4 BB ply.. I want to try some 1/2 but I have a boat load of clock movements that would require 1/4 so that is why I went with it instead..

First off, I have several can of spray paint so I was trying to just use what I have on hand.. I found a can of gloss black.. thinking satin or semi gloss may look better.. While I don't hate the painted backer.. I can't say I really like it either.. so.. while rummaging through my paint cabinet in my old shop I run across some Black Walnut stain that I forgot i even had.. Gotta be 10 + years old, LOL Anyway I put it on the paint shaker and ran it for a while.. seemed to look fine so I cut out some more backers.. Now I've heard BB ply doesn't stain well but this stuff came out looking ( what I thought ) good.. In fact.. I almost like the look of it better than the actual walnut ply that I had been using.. 

So, not sure if the wood glue sticks well to a stained surface I had bought some epoxy glue but the only one I found that self mixed with the special application tube sets up in 1 min. I had waited to glue up several clocks / backers so I could use as much of the glue as I could as the stuff only came with two of those application nozzles.. First glue up went well but I wasn't fast enough and my glue dried in my application nozzle before getting to the second one, LOL.. SO.. I then laid out all the clocks ad backers so the next one I was as ready as I could be to get these glued.. I ended up getting all but the last one.. believe I had 6 of them laid out and only got 5 glued because once again that nozzle dried shut on me.. I didn't have any thing handy to cut the end of the nozzle and by the time I got something the whole tube was harden shut.. LOL.. I threw away the remaining stuff.. I do like the quick set-up in that I can be done in a matter of minutes..rather than hours with wood glue..  Next time I'm going to hunt down the stuff with a 5 minute set time.. can do it in that 1 minute window very well.. 5 minutes would work perfect I think.. I just can't seem to locate the 5 minute stuff local.. so I may order some online... also haven't found the WeldBond glue that Dave uses.. so will probably order that too..

Anyway the last one that didn't get glued was the painted one.. which is one that I was hoping to be able to compare with the others as far as the final top coating..

I top coated with polyurethane because again.. what I had that I wanted to use up.. I do have a new can of Lacquer but wasn't sure how that would go over with the stained projects.. The stain is so old the label is basically gone, LOL so I don't really know much of anything about it other than it said Black Walnut.. Not a big fan of polyurethane but I sprayed really light coats on it and it doesn't look like it's covered in plastic LOL so it turned out okay.. Not a big fan of the minwax polyurethane spray nozzle.. it kept like sucking up air or sputtering which made it very difficult to make nice even coats.. Not sure if it's because of a old can or if that is somewhat how they are.. was a full can.. I bought a few months ago.. 

I should be posting pictures in the bragging section in a day or so.. heck maybe yet today if I get time to get the pictures etc.. gotta go out now and cut my Ramcharger clock that Jim was so kind to make a pattern of in the pattern request forum..        

[Dave Monk]

3 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

Okay, thought I'd update this since I have tried a couple of different backer options.. 

 

I went and bought some 1/4 BB ply.. I want to try some 1/2 but I have a boat load of clock movements that would require 1/4 so that is why I went with it instead..

First off, I have several can of spray paint so I was trying to just use what I have on hand.. I found a can of gloss black.. thinking satin or semi gloss may look better.. While I don't hate the painted backer.. I can't say I really like it either.. so.. while rummaging through my paint cabinet in my old shop I run across some Black Walnut stain that I forgot i even had.. Gotta be 10 + years old, LOL Anyway I put it on the paint shaker and ran it for a while.. seemed to look fine so I cut out some more backers.. Now I've heard BB ply doesn't stain well but this stuff came out looking ( what I thought ) good.. In fact.. I almost like the look of it better than the actual walnut ply that I had been using.. 

So, not sure if the wood glue sticks well to a stained surface I had bought some epoxy glue but the only one I found that self mixed with the special application tube sets up in 1 min. I had waited to glue up several clocks / backers so I could use as much of the glue as I could as the stuff only came with two of those application nozzles.. First glue up went well but I wasn't fast enough and my glue dried in my application nozzle before getting to the second one, LOL.. SO.. I then laid out all the clocks ad backers so the next one I was as ready as I could be to get these glued.. I ended up getting all but the last one.. believe I had 6 of them laid out and only got 5 glued because once again that nozzle dried shut on me.. I didn't have any thing handy to cut the end of the nozzle and by the time I got something the whole tube was harden shut.. LOL.. I threw away the remaining stuff.. I do like the quick set-up in that I can be done in a matter of minutes..rather than hours with wood glue..  Next time I'm going to hunt down the stuff with a 5 minute set time.. can do it in that 1 minute window very well.. 5 minutes would work perfect I think.. I just can't seem to locate the 5 minute stuff local.. so I may order some online... also haven't found the WeldBond glue that Dave uses.. so will probably order that too..

Anyway the last one that didn't get glued was the painted one.. which is one that I was hoping to be able to compare with the others as far as the final top coating..

I top coated with polyurethane because again.. what I had that I wanted to use up.. I do have a new can of Lacquer but wasn't sure how that would go over with the stained projects.. The stain is so old the label is basically gone, LOL so I don't really know much of anything about it other than it said Black Walnut.. Not a big fan of polyurethane but I sprayed really light coats on it and it doesn't look like it's covered in plastic LOL so it turned out okay.. Not a big fan of the minwax polyurethane spray nozzle.. it kept like sucking up air or sputtering which made it very difficult to make nice even coats.. Not sure if it's because of a old can or if that is somewhat how they are.. was a full can.. I bought a few months ago.. 

I should be posting pictures in the bragging section in a day or so.. heck maybe yet today if I get time to get the pictures etc.. gotta go out now and cut my Ramcharger clock that Jim was so kind to make a pattern of in the pattern request forum..        

Our local Hobby Lobby and Ace Hardware carries the  Weldbond. Also easy to buy on line. I also use a empty Aleene's glue bottle to put the Weldbond glue into because it has a much smaller hole. It doesn't take much and and sticks well to stain or lacquer.  After I put the scroll work on the backer I let it set for about five minutes and sandwich it between two slabs of granite to clamp it. I will take it out after about an hour and if there is a bit of glue that seeps out a bit I will scrape it off with a jewelers screw driver. It does dry clear so if you miss a small spot it isn't very noticeable. 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Highly suggest if you are going to do this and add these to your line stop screwing around with old stock and get rid of that stuff and buy fresh. No excuse because you live in the Boonies. Tired of people using that as an excuse. Today the world is so much smaller. Use the internet and buy on line just like your customers are doing with your product. Just a few clicks away. You get what you pay for all the time.  I do not even look many times if I can get in store, just as easy to buy on line. That is why malls are a thing of the past. 

[teachnlearn]

6 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

Okay, thought I'd update this since I have tried a couple of different backer options.. 

 

I went and bought some 1/4 BB ply.. I want to try some 1/2 but I have a boat load of clock movements that would require 1/4 so that is why I went with it instead..

First off, I have several can of spray paint so I was trying to just use what I have on hand.. I found a can of gloss black.. thinking satin or semi gloss may look better.. While I don't hate the painted backer.. I can't say I really like it either.. so.. while rummaging through my paint cabinet in my old shop I run across some Black Walnut stain that I forgot i even had.. Gotta be 10 + years old, LOL Anyway I put it on the paint shaker and ran it for a while.. seemed to look fine so I cut out some more backers.. Now I've heard BB ply doesn't stain well but this stuff came out looking ( what I thought ) good.. In fact.. I almost like the look of it better than the actual walnut ply that I had been using.. 

So, not sure if the wood glue sticks well to a stained surface I had bought some epoxy glue but the only one I found that self mixed with the special application tube sets up in 1 min. I had waited to glue up several clocks / backers so I could use as much of the glue as I could as the stuff only came with two of those application nozzles.. First glue up went well but I wasn't fast enough and my glue dried in my application nozzle before getting to the second one, LOL.. SO.. I then laid out all the clocks ad backers so the next one I was as ready as I could be to get these glued.. I ended up getting all but the last one.. believe I had 6 of them laid out and only got 5 glued because once again that nozzle dried shut on me.. I didn't have any thing handy to cut the end of the nozzle and by the time I got something the whole tube was harden shut.. LOL.. I threw away the remaining stuff.. I do like the quick set-up in that I can be done in a matter of minutes..rather than hours with wood glue..  Next time I'm going to hunt down the stuff with a 5 minute set time.. can do it in that 1 minute window very well.. 5 minutes would work perfect I think.. I just can't seem to locate the 5 minute stuff local.. so I may order some online... also haven't found the WeldBond glue that Dave uses.. so will probably order that too..

Anyway the last one that didn't get glued was the painted one.. which is one that I was hoping to be able to compare with the others as far as the final top coating..

I top coated with polyurethane because again.. what I had that I wanted to use up.. I do have a new can of Lacquer but wasn't sure how that would go over with the stained projects.. The stain is so old the label is basically gone, LOL so I don't really know much of anything about it other than it said Black Walnut.. Not a big fan of polyurethane but I sprayed really light coats on it and it doesn't look like it's covered in plastic LOL so it turned out okay.. Not a big fan of the minwax polyurethane spray nozzle.. it kept like sucking up air or sputtering which made it very difficult to make nice even coats.. Not sure if it's because of a old can or if that is somewhat how they are.. was a full can.. I bought a few months ago.. 

I should be posting pictures in the bragging section in a day or so.. heck maybe yet today if I get time to get the pictures etc.. gotta go out now and cut my Ramcharger clock that Jim was so kind to make a pattern of in the pattern request forum..        

1 minute epoxy? That's a new one for me. Quickest I've seen is 5 min with max strength in 24 hours which works well. For large projects, I like cabinet I use wood glue and clamps.

Now to ver the topic. You mentioned putting it in a paint shaker. I've go various physical problems and solve many problems with power type tools. For paint, stain, I've grabbed cans and driven to a store and had them shake it again. Looked at paint shakers for quart, gallon cans and they seem expensive. Do you have a source that has decent prices? RJF

[kmmcrafts]

1 hour ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

Highly suggest if you are going to do this and add these to your line stop screwing around with old stock and get rid of that stuff and buy fresh. No excuse because you live in the Boonies. Tired of people using that as an excuse. Today the world is so much smaller. Use the internet and buy on line just like your customers are doing with your product. Just a few clicks away. You get what you pay for all the time.  I do not even look many times if I can get in store, just as easy to buy on line. That is why malls are a thing of the past. 

I totally agree.. I was just using this to experiment with.. I do live in the boonies but actually there is a Do It Best hardware store about 11 mile from me.. funny to have that store out here when you can't even have a gas station, LOL.. That store is always busy too..

[kmmcrafts]

49 minutes ago, teachnlearn said:

1 minute epoxy? That's a new one for me. Quickest I've seen is 5 min with max strength in 24 hours which works well. For large projects, I like cabinet I use wood glue and clamps.

Now to ver the topic. You mentioned putting it in a paint shaker. I've go various physical problems and solve many problems with power type tools. For paint, stain, I've grabbed cans and driven to a store and had them shake it again. Looked at paint shakers for quart, gallon cans and they seem expensive. Do you have a source that has decent prices? RJF

I worked for a body shop part time for several years ( best friend owns it ) and they was moving to a brand new location and buying brand new equipment..  Pretty much got this one for nothing.. I wouldn't probably have it otherwise as they are a bit pricey

[JimErn]

52 minutes ago, teachnlearn said:

 Do you have a source that has decent prices? RJF

ROFL, who would have thought it, amazon sells them

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=paint+can+shaker&gclid=Cj0KCQjw3uboBRDCARIsAO2XcYDgihWe98fWwG6y-Rt4k-sKn_YuJntQea6RXm4suX7eV_Dv0q8kzQ0aAt8cEALw_wcB&hvadid=174225000840&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9027978&hvnetw=g&hvpos=1o1&hvqmt=b&hvrand=6726900736733235810&hvtargid=kwd-1770391355&hydadcr=24659_9648993&tag=googhydr-20&ref=pd_sl_8c2gzwk7mn_b

I found that googling DIY paint can shakers

[Scrappile]

I'd like to have one for rattle cans.  Hard to get enough shake out of my old beat up hands anymore.....

[JimErn]

12 minutes ago, Scrappile said:

I'd like to have one for rattle cans.  Hard to get enough shake out of my old beat up hands anymore.....

Friend bungies the rattle can to a saws-all, locks the trigger and waits

If the people who pay him to do body work only knew

[teachnlearn]

34 minutes ago, kmmcrafts said:

I totally agree.. I was just using this to experiment with.. I do live in the boonies but actually there is a Do It Best hardware store about 11 mile from me.. funny to have that store out here when you can't even have a gas station, LOL.. That store is always busy too..

Darn, got my hopes up. RJF

[teachnlearn]

39 minutes ago, JimErn said:

ROFL, who would have thought it, amazon sells them

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=paint+can+shaker&gclid=Cj0KCQjw3uboBRDCARIsAO2XcYDgihWe98fWwG6y-Rt4k-sKn_YuJntQea6RXm4suX7eV_Dv0q8kzQ0aAt8cEALw_wcB&hvadid=174225000840&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9027978&hvnetw=g&hvpos=1o1&hvqmt=b&hvrand=6726900736733235810&hvtargid=kwd-1770391355&hydadcr=24659_9648993&tag=googhydr-20&ref=pd_sl_8c2gzwk7mn_b

I found that googling DIY paint can shakers

Looked several years ago and found the pneumatic shakers had poor ratings. Maybe they have improved them. RJF

[teachnlearn]

18 minutes ago, JimErn said:

Friend bungies the rattle can to a saws-all, locks the trigger and waits

If the people who pay him to do body work only knew

Bought one of these a few years ago and works great. Most may not, but it helps my aches and pains. RJF

Looked up the site and they have an add-on since I bought.

https://www.mixkwik.com/