Hawk Vibration

[Rockytime]

This has been discussed a lot but this is specifically about my Hawk. My Hawk is mounted on four wheels out of necessity. I roll it out to use it and then roll it back into it's corner. I scroll at slow speeds. On a scale of 0 to 10 I scroll about 4 all the time. Works for me. Without leveler legs the four point stance is never totally stable. Vibration starts just above 5 and at 6 it is bad. I thought a three point stance would be more stable. I removed the front casters and mounted one of them at the center of the front. Terrible. I did not even start the saw as It felt unstable. I replaced the front casters. I replaced the two rear casters moving one to the center. What a difference. Vibration now begins at about 7.5. Quite an improvement. Biggest problem with my Hawk is the TALL legs. The legs are made of bent sheet metal albeit heavy sheet metal. Cross bracing would make them stable. Shorter legs would make it more stable. Stability is everything. If I were ten years younger I would cut off the legs and weld in bracing. At my age I no longer have the energy to do so. I scroll at slow speeds so all is OK. The first two photos are how the wheels were originally. The last is the way it is now. Is working well.
 

[kmmcrafts]

Les, the first Hawk I bought had a shelf located down about maybe mid way down the legs there should be some pre-made holes.. Get yourself some angle iron or aluminum.. bolt them to the existing holes..( If you don't need / want a shelf below you could just use flat stock.. ) then you can cut a piece of plywood o set onto the angle for a shelf.. My other two Hawks do not have the shelf.. but they will one of these days.. I really like the shelf on that old saw and the added steel makes the thing a little more solid.. I believe Hawk has a shelf kit that you can buy.. but with the holes already in the legs.. it's fairly simple to just cut and drill some angle.. aluminum would drill easier than steel.. Make the shelf stout enough you could place some weight to help give it more mass.. since it's on wheels the added weight probably isn't going to be noticed.. I have to pick up or slide mine if I'm moving it.. which I never do move it so not a big deal.. Hawk also sells a wheel kit for these.. its designed to be picked up or tilted back into the wheels and you get a fancy handle to bolt to the front to pick up and pull / push etc..   

 

Edit to add: Looking at your pictures. I can't see the holes in your stand legs.. maybe you don't have them or the wrong angle of the camera view.. but all my saws.. even the new one has the holes..

Edited June 26, 2019 by kmmcrafts

[Rockytime]

My saw has the holes. Also have old bed rails. Also have metal cutting band saw. Thanks. 

[OCtoolguy]

I'll be following this thread. I like the idea of wheels but to add anymore height to the saw, well it ain't gonna happen. Maybe one of those kits that H/F used to sell would be ok. I used one under my bandsaw. Sorta like the HTC system but a lot cheaper.

I wasn't sure that H/F still sold these but I just looked and they do. I think I'll buy a set just to keep around for if and when needed. H/F part number is 95288. Just add wood.

 

 

Edited June 26, 2019 by octoolguy

[Rolf]

Rockytime,  I have the wheel set that was sold by Hawk. There are only two at the back with a handle mounted to the front of the saw. to move it you lift the front of the saw and the wheels touch the floor. when you set it back down it sits on the rubber based feet. My floor is not very level so whenever I move the saw I give a gentle kick to what ever leg I need to for the saw to sit solidly on the floor.  I clip a trash bag to the handle for my cutoffs. 

I incorporated that design into a roll around cabinet I built for my Jet spindle sander. You can see the white cabinet with the caster in the last photo.

You do not want the legs fixed solidly to each other as that will eliminate the adjust-ability to shift them especially as you move your saw all the time.

Notice that I have a diamond plate pattern on my floor covering. 

It works great! 

[kmmcrafts]

Rolf brings up a good point.. My son will sometimes bump my saw to turn on the radio in the shop... once I start sawing I find out it had been bumped enough to move it out of it's settled spot.. and will sort of kick out at the legs while the saw is running and I can get it settles in it's spot again.. 

Edited June 26, 2019 by kmmcrafts

[OCtoolguy]

What both of you are saying, regarding kicking the legs to "settle" the saw, tells me that the legs are too long. This saw should have shorter legs. Or at least the option to adjust them. That's the only thing that I have found to dislike about my Hawk. 

[Sycamore67]

My Hegner has three legs and very stable with low vibration.

[Bill WIlson]

With all due respect to Rolf & Kevin, I think I would prefer that the legs be tied together.  I think it would be more stable that way.  I understand the issue they raise about movement and adjusting one leg to settle the stand in.  I just think that if the legs were firmly bound together, that would be less of a problem.  

My suggestion would be to make a solid base and mount the stand to it, so that none of the legs can move independently of the other.  The closer to the floor the better.  To go a step further, add some weight to the base to further dampen vibration.

But then again, I might be all wet.  

[kmmcrafts]

34 minutes ago, Bill WIlson said:

With all due respect to Rolf & Kevin, I think I would prefer that the legs be tied together.  I think it would be more stable that way.  I understand the issue they raise about movement and adjusting one leg to settle the stand in.  I just think that if the legs were firmly bound together, that would be less of a problem.  

My suggestion would be to make a solid base and mount the stand to it, so that none of the legs can move independently of the other.  The closer to the floor the better.  To go a step further, add some weight to the base to further dampen vibration.

But then again, I might be all wet.  

I see it both ways.. I think rigid is great for a person that isn't moving the saw in and out every day.. I have one saw with the shelf that has the braces.. It's awesome smooth as long as it is set in the spot where I leveled the legs at.. once moved I have to re adjust those feet.. the other two Hawks I just kick them in the leg to get them to straighten up  

[OCtoolguy]

1 minute ago, kmmcrafts said:

I see it both ways.. I think rigid is great for a person that isn't moving the saw in and out every day.. I have one saw with the shelf that has the braces.. It's awesome smooth as long as it is set in the spot where I leveled the legs at.. once moved I have to re adjust those feet.. the other two Hawks I just kick them in the leg to get them to straighten up  

The mobile base that I showed up above, if built with enough accuracy, forces the legs to settle into the corner pockets. I built the one for my bandsaw and the enclosed base of my saw sits inside of the four corners very tightly. In fact, if I recall, I had a heck of a time got get the base of the saw inside of the base. It sits very firmly. The only problem that I have is when they built the storage room on the side of our mobile home, they put it on 4 x 4's but not enough of them. Then they put down plywood for the floor and it is a bit springy. I was always going to add another layer over it but never got around to it and now it would be a major undertaking to do it. Oh well.............

 

[Rockytime]

11 hours ago, Rolf said:

Rockytime,  I have the wheel set that was sold by Hawk. There are only two at the back with a handle mounted to the front of the saw. to move it you lift the front of the saw and the wheels touch the floor. when you set it back down it sits on the rubber based feet. My floor is not very level so whenever I move the saw I give a gentle kick to what ever leg I need to for the saw to sit solidly on the floor.  I clip a trash bag to the handle for my cutoffs. 

I incorporated that design into a roll around cabinet I built for my Jet spindle sander. You can see the white cabinet with the caster in the last photo.

You do not want the legs fixed solidly to each other as that will eliminate the adjust-ability to shift them especially as you move your saw all the time.

Notice that I have a diamond plate pattern on my floor covering. 

It works great! 

Those wheels look terrific. Had I known about those long ago I would have gone that route. I had a Delta Uni-saw. A heavy cast iron one. It had a homemade pair of wheels on the back. I had a tow bar to move it. The tow bar had one wheel and when I pressed down on it the saw would rise and I could tow that saw easily. Thanks for showing those.

[Rockytime]

6 hours ago, Sycamore67 said:

My Hegner has three legs and very stable with low vibration.

I'm presuming your Hegner is constructed of welded tubular steel which is how all descent stands should be made. I would love a Hegner with the three point stance!

[Sycamore67]

The Hegner has square steel legs that are about 1.25".  There is some bracing in between the legs and to the middle of the top.  As I said, this is a very strong stable stand.  I have mine raised about 1.25" in the back.

[Rolf]

No matter how you build a stand, you still have to have the capability to compensate for a wonky floor.  I agree with yo if the tool never gets moved rigid and tweaked to the floor is best. 

But if you move your tools it would be a royal pain to have to adjust the feet every time. Like Kevin said a simple little kick does it. The Hawk stand is really very rigid.

[ike]

I have owned 8 Scroll-saws in the pasts 50 years andd the metal stand never worked out right so I mad one out of wood. put two wheels on the back and a handle on the front. this allows me to move the saw  around the shop. this also allows the saw to set at an angle which I prefer, but in using the metal strand I would i  add wood in the frame and with all bolts I would use lock tight on the nuts. also use a shock pad under the saw which is mounted  on wood. Wood observer the vibration. steel won't. The only thing I have on a metal  is a Table Saw. I have no vibration.

IKE