Reminder... Do NOT sell any trademarked items!

[Iguanadon]

Day 3 of my mega event was exciting in that at least 2 vendor booths were "raided" by the authorities, Homeland Security oversees trademark infringement and they confiscated all materials from the vendors selling NFL and college team merchandise.  Now I wonder how hefty the fines will be.  I know one of the vendors as we see each other at a lot of events, not sure if he'll share with me what happens, but I'm certainly curious as I hear rumors of $10,000 fines and some have said it can be $10,000 per item (which would be extreme, but hey, the NFL, etc don't mess around).

Bottom line, DON'T RISK IT... it's not worth it.

This one vendor was displaying NFL team logos, very nicely done, woodwork.  They didn't confiscate his automotive company logos...  It was funny, when I was roaming the venue the first day and saw his stuff I almost asked if he was licensed for that and now I'm so glad I didn't because he'd think I ratted him out.  LOL!!!

[Jim McDonald]

I have turned down lots of requests for Indianapolis Colts horseshoe logos.  Don't need the trouble.

Edited July 5, 2019 by Jim McDonald
shoe not show

[kmmcrafts]

It was on the news earlier this year and it's been all over some of the selling forums I belong to about how they are cracking down on this sort of stuff.. I posted that they are doing internet sweeps on etsy and other handmade selling sites.. along with Amazon and Ebay.. I posted a heads up a few weeks ago.. basically my post got mocked and what have you about it.. then some took it personally as if I was calling them out personally and they start asking me if I got permission for this and that.. so be it whatever.. trying to do a nice gesture and heads up to save you're butt in some way and nobody even said a thanks for heads up etc.. Oh well.. Maybe they'll take you seriously.. with this post..

Let me say thank you for taking the time to give another heads up.. These copyright holders are not messing around..

I'm quite surprised that they didn't take the automotive logos.. logos of anything is a big NO.. My car clocks I'm working to sort of faze out.. but they could fall under fair use.. too as with maybe the logos.. either way.. I'll be selling what I have and fazing out the stuff.. I had my Harley puzzle taken down but mainly because I used the word Harley to describe it.. However I won't be making more of those either.. Not sure if you make that one of not.. but I'll say.. be careful because Harley don't mess around with it either.. 

[Iguanadon]

13 minutes ago, kmmcrafts said:

It was on the news earlier this year and it's been all over some of the selling forums I belong to about how they are cracking down on this sort of stuff.. I posted that they are doing internet sweeps on etsy and other handmade selling sites.. along with Amazon and Ebay.. I posted a heads up a few weeks ago.. basically my post got mocked and what have you about it.. then some took it personally as if I was calling them out personally and they start asking me if I got permission for this and that.. so be it whatever.. trying to do a nice gesture and heads up to save you're butt in some way and nobody even said a thanks for heads up etc.. Oh well.. Maybe they'll take you seriously.. with this post..

Let me say thank you for taking the time to give another heads up.. These copyright holders are not messing around..

I'm quite surprised that they didn't take the automotive logos.. logos of anything is a big NO.. My car clocks I'm working to sort of faze out.. but they could fall under fair use.. too as with maybe the logos.. either way.. I'll be selling what I have and fazing out the stuff.. I had my Harley puzzle taken down but mainly because I used the word Harley to describe it.. However I won't be making more of those either.. Not sure if you make that one of not.. but I'll say.. be careful because Harley don't mess around with it either.. 

My next door vendor neighbor the past 3 days was a former police officer and he's the one that told me it was Homeland Security that handles this type of thing and I confirmed it with some google searches this morning.  He said he sees it at State Fairs and larger venues and was surprised they hit our "little" venue with 150 vendors.  As you said though, they're apparently really cracking down on it.

It was funny, I saw a truck being backed up into the park where no vehicles are typically allowed and wondered what was going on, then I saw guys loading up bin after bin of items and I thought "Oh wow, maybe a vendor became ill or has an emergency and is having to leave."  Then word got around as to what happened.  

[ScollSaw Slasher]

Thanks guys for the warnings that we all should take heed. Whether one is fined or not, the problem of getting your goods confiscated and the legal problems that can ensue just ain't worth it. Always like to tell the story of a Tampa Bay Bucs tailgate party that we were having with about 30 guys. A shirt guy came along with a good quality tee shirt with the Buccaneer  logo etc at about the third the cost. Sold about 20 to our group (I know, who in their right mind would buy a Buc Tee shirt). Got home from the game and there he was on the evening news getting hauled off to jail. The big boys don't mess around!!!!

[Brianr24]

It’s a good thing homeland security took some time away from keeping us safe so they can bust some retirees making some emblems. Let the NFL patrol on there own. 

You know someone in our government in charge of this got some sort of kickback or side deal from big money organization to push this.  Do nothing government jobs in our useless government.

[Jim McDonald]

22 minutes ago, Brianr24 said:

It’s a good thing homeland security took some time away from keeping us safe so they can bust some retirees making some emblems. Let the NFL patrol on there own. 

You know someone in our government in charge of this got some sort of kickback or side deal from big money organization to push this.  Do nothing government jobs in our useless government.

I normally would leave this alone, BUT:

Trademarks and copyrights are registered with the government just as are patents.

If you had developed/designed/built something and saw someone (or multiple people) ripping off your design or invention, you would be screaming for relief. 

That relief comes from a variety of agencies from local police to the U. S. attorney for your particular area--up to the DOJ for international theft of intellectual property. 

I know a guy in my area was busted selling counterfeit North Face(c) jackets. He had the material seized and paid  good size fine. He was lucky there was no jail time.

[Brianr24]

4 minutes ago, Jim McDonald said:

I normally would leave this alone, BUT:

Trademarks and copyrights are registered with the government just as are patents.

If you had developed/designed/built something and saw someone (or multiple people) ripping off your design or invention, you would be screaming for relief. 

That relief comes from a variety of agencies from local police to the U. S. attorney for your particular area--up to the DOJ for international theft of intellectual property. 

I know a guy in my area was busted selling counterfeit North Face(c) jackets. He had the material seized and paid  good size fine. He was lucky there was no jail time.

Yeah I get what ur saying Jim and I’m not trying to say this in an argumentative manner and I shouldn’t have ever posted any of this. But I’ll say one more thing. Do you think if I had a trademark out there homeland security would protect it? yeah they would if I were able to funnel them a bundle of cash. Maybe a beach house or donation to one of there personal “non profit “ yeah right! Organizations.

I’m not saying they should allow someone to rip off trademarks. Just saying there is always agenda backed by dirty money with our government.....always,always,always and one more always!

 

[crupiea]

How do we know it was not just a competitor with a homeland security shirt and a badge they got from ebay?

Just some conspiracy food for thought. 

[Iguanadon]

7 minutes ago, crupiea said:

How do we know it was not just a competitor with a homeland security shirt and a badge they got from ebay?

Just some conspiracy food for thought. 

Leave it to you to come up with that conspiracy theory.  LOL

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Tell them to go to the street corners in NY. Those guys are always on the run and well organized with spotters. I have told this before, This is nothing new. I have seen this 35 years ago at a decent craft show with Disney, Harley and sports of all kind. The word got around the show very fast that they were there. Kapernick must have sent them. They confiscate the stuff and then hand it out to their friends.

Edited July 6, 2019 by JTTHECLOCKMAN

[lawson56]

I would weigh in,but it's getting to far off the main topic.

[Harry Barton]

I don't know how these things work outside the UK, but it seems that a few guys with scroll saws making coat hooks with team logos on them, is a world away from organised counterfeiting of trademarked goods.  Technically, they're all in the same category no doubt, but it looks to me like a broad-brush approach is being applied.

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

On 7/5/2019 at 3:30 PM, kmmcrafts said:

It was on the news earlier this year and it's been all over some of the selling forums I belong to about how they are cracking down on this sort of stuff.. I posted that they are doing internet sweeps on etsy and other handmade selling sites.. along with Amazon and Ebay.. I posted a heads up a few weeks ago.. basically my post got mocked and what have you about it.. then some took it personally as if I was calling them out personally and they start asking me if I got permission for this and that.. so be it whatever.. trying to do a nice gesture and heads up to save you're butt in some way and nobody even said a thanks for heads up etc.. Oh well.. Maybe they'll take you seriously.. with this post..

Let me say thank you for taking the time to give another heads up.. These copyright holders are not messing around..

I'm quite surprised that they didn't take the automotive logos.. logos of anything is a big NO.. My car clocks I'm working to sort of faze out.. but they could fall under fair use.. too as with maybe the logos.. either way.. I'll be selling what I have and fazing out the stuff.. I had my Harley puzzle taken down but mainly because I used the word Harley to describe it.. However I won't be making more of those either.. Not sure if you make that one of not.. but I'll say.. be careful because Harley don't mess around with it either.. 

https://www.scrollsawvillage.com/forums/topic/34025-famous-people-copy-rights/

I have to say the last few days I must be reading a whole different set of threads being posted. No where did I see any mocking of this post or calling out of anyone. Just a couple questions that got answered very nicely. Not sure how many people here sell on Etsy, Ebay or even their own web sites but i bet it is not many. Copyright laws are no joke and have been a thorn to all who have done any type crafts over the years. Just like these selling sites that want in on the tax money they were losing so do the copyright enforcers. They see an avenue that can generate money or loss of it because of the internet sales that have surpassed the brick and mortar avenues. So the uptick of enforcement. 

Iggy got to see this in person at a med sized show and I have too many years ago. But everyone knew that Disney, Harley, Sports both college and pro protect their names and brands. This has not changed for 35 years that I have been doing this. Famous people may have hired some company to go after their share. With cell phones and cameras all around us everywhere we go every day of the week. We need to be extra careful when it comes to selling anything. Who knows what is going to happen with all these Garage sale sites showing up on FaceBook. That can be the next attack. So you have been warned there too. But knock off of brands has been a battle that just keeps growing and growing. Don't get caught in the middle and you should be fine. I can not answer to those that sell on those sites and to what words are taboo or not but Kevin has given out this heads up and we thank him. Iggy we thank you too for bringing this up and actually giving a first hand posting. 

[kmmcrafts]

1 hour ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

https://www.scrollsawvillage.com/forums/topic/34025-famous-people-copy-rights/

I have to say the last few days I must be reading a whole different set of threads being posted. No where did I see any mocking of this post or calling out of anyone. Just a couple questions that got answered very nicely. Not sure how many people here sell on Etsy, Ebay or even their own web sites but i bet it is not many. Copyright laws are no joke and have been a thorn to all who have done any type crafts over the years. Just like these selling sites that want in on the tax money they were losing so do the copyright enforcers. They see an avenue that can generate money or loss of it because of the internet sales that have surpassed the brick and mortar avenues. So the uptick of enforcement. 

Iggy got to see this in person at a med sized show and I have too many years ago. But everyone knew that Disney, Harley, Sports both college and pro protect their names and brands. This has not changed for 35 years that I have been doing this. Famous people may have hired some company to go after their share. With cell phones and cameras all around us everywhere we go every day of the week. We need to be extra careful when it comes to selling anything. Who knows what is going to happen with all these Garage sale sites showing up on FaceBook. That can be the next attack. So you have been warned there too. But knock off of brands has been a battle that just keeps growing and growing. Don't get caught in the middle and you should be fine. I can not answer to those that sell on those sites and to what words are taboo or not but Kevin has given out this heads up and we thank him. Iggy we thank you too for bringing this up and actually giving a first hand posting. 

JT, some of the conversation went on behind the scenes via PM's .. Sorry if I've made some confusion of that statement.. I get a lot of PM's and many times I forget if it was posted on the forum or a PM, LOL

[teachnlearn]

There used to be something about artistic rights. An artist had to right to create items. If they created a Disney cutout in wood, it was their creation since Disney does not have wood characters. If they laser 500 cutouts, it was a manufactured processes and violated the spirit of artistic lic. I think some of this copyright gets carried away. Cut a group of Disney characters and some parent buys it for their kids room. Kids are thrilled and remember their room for life. Now their going to fine and lock the guy up for a couple of cutouts? It will never cut into their profits.

I remember a article of a daycare using a group of volunteers to paint their walls in Disney characters. Disney sued and made them repaint their walls. Basically showed Disney as a company looking to grab as much money from kids as possible. Now if Disney heard of it, they should have sent a few of their artist to the day care. Touch up the paintings, add a few special touches and let the public know they did it. Now Disney come off as a kind company. The kids have Disney characters around all day, and what child isn't going to want what they see?

I stay away from selling anything that is corporate owned. But, I bet my son has grown up with cabinets painted with Pokemon and Disney. Lets see some agent break our door down to inspect his cabinets. RJF

[kmmcrafts]

I kinda see both sides.. on one hand I understand the people copyrighting things because it protects their logo or whatever from being used.. Being small business I don't like people copying my items I've designed and sell either.. But I can deal with that more than those folks that go steeling my photos from my websites because I took time to take nice photos with many angles etc.. and put them up on their own site selling the same things.. This was a big thing a few years back and probably still is.. I've found sellers in other countries having websites using my photos and my product titles and descriptions.. many sellers back then were watermarking their photos... but google kicks you out of searches doing that... Not much one can do but report it.. so I mean.. I do understand the stuff..

I've been told a lot of times about my car clocks are safe from it if I'm not using their logos.. The couple of clocks etsy did take down from me was ones with logos.. but they never touched the others that didn't have logos on it.. 

Now.. understanding the logo thing because they have a artist create a logo for them etc and that is their trademark.. I get that.. but one that gets me is.. phrases..that are trademarked.. really? it's just words..yeah some goofball made up a phrase or word and some rich person decided to copyright / trademark it.. 

[lawson56]

Well I will continue to make my automotive plaques.and put the name on them just not the logo.I will stop making sports logos,just to be on the safe side.But my Cowboys are still a go.

[zimmerstutzen]

Football teams very jealously protect their trademarks because they make a large amount licensing products with their logos.  It isn't that hard to get a licensing agreement and pay for it.  

[teachnlearn]

3 hours ago, zimmerstutzen said:

Football teams very jealously protect their trademarks because they make a large amount licensing products with their logos.  It isn't that hard to get a licensing agreement and pay for it.  

I wonder how may pieces of scroll work it would take tobreak even. RJF

Edited July 8, 2019 by teachnlearn

[Falcon]

This is what I found to be able to sell NFL stuff. Really EXPENSIVE!!

https://www.nfl.info/NFLConsProd/Welcome/cpAgreement.htm

[zimmerstutzen]

They sure tightened things up in the last few years.  I worked out a deal for a guy that sold Leather Redskins jackets.  Giant logo on back.  He ordered from China and sold a few thousand at $50 a piece.  over 4 years and had to give it up when he was drained in a divorce.    He sent the NFL something like $8.50 a piece per jacket sold.    

[teachnlearn]

2 hours ago, Falcon said:

This is what I found to be able to sell NFL stuff. Really EXPENSIVE!!

https://www.nfl.info/NFLConsProd/Welcome/cpAgreement.htm

The way its written up, don't think there is a problem. Just 6 million of one insurance and 12 million of another. Along with the $100,000 up front. All I have to do is price each piece at $10,000. Break even of the up front money in 10 sales, and the rest is gravy! By the way does someone sell gold sheets I can scroll on? RJF

[tomsteve]

On 7/7/2019 at 6:46 PM, lawson56 said:

.But my Cowboys are still a go.

because nobody outside of texas cares about the cowboys. 

[JimErn]

1 hour ago, tomsteve said:

because nobody outside of texas cares about the cowboys. 

There is somewhere called outside Texas?

ROFL