Dust Collection....again

[Rockytime]

Not much going on here so I'll try to bore you a little. I started designing a DIY nuclear reactor. That didn't seemed to be working so decided to try and adapt it to my saw. Everything came from ACE hardware. I patronize them because they are very close and are locally owned.  Also I get to know all the staff and get terrific service. Please try not to laugh as I am terribly sensitive and at my age my skin gets very thin. I bleed easily. It works well with exception of the upper vacuum hose. With the vacuum turned there is lots of suction on the large orifice bu very little on the upper. Perhaps it is because the larger uses all the suction and not enough left over for the smaller. I'm thinking perhaps both should be the same diameter so each would have the same amount of vacuum. I have not decided exactly how I will proceed with the upper. I may put a reduced orifice on the lower and see how that works before adapting the mounting bracket on top. This is totally an experiment in progress.

[John B]

Some serious engineering going on there.

 

[teachnlearn]

Little tip as you tinker. Tight bends will have an effect on your vacuum. Its a fluids flow thing. Happens with design for sewage pipes too.RJF

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

I hope you patten this when done. Could be line wanting them. 

[JimErn]

Just my two cents, but  in the first pic of the manifold.  The direction of the flow should be from the arms of the "Y" to the base.  Looking at the letter "Y" - flow from from top to bottom.  The manifold appears to used differently

Yes, air, liquid and electricity will take the shortest path with the least resistance.  Bends and joints should be as gentle as possible, the sharper the bend, the higher the resistance to flow.

 

[Rockytime]

This is weird. I responded to your post three times today on my cell phone.I would hit submit and nothing happened. I retyped and hit submit and nothing happened. The third time I got a message telling me to log in. I tried logging in and my user name and password were not recognized. This evening I tried logging in with my desktop. Message came up saying site was not available. I waited a few minutes and logged in successfully. Now that is taken care of so on to the business at hand. Your two cents made sense. Pardon the pun. You are correct about tight turns. However I am limited to what I can use. But I replaced the Y with  T thus getting rid of the one inverse turn. Works quite well. The upper vacuum is virtually nothing. I guess to have vacuum in both places the two orifices need to be of equal size and share the vacuum. I can"t do that so I'll just go back to blowing the top sawdust away from me. In the meantime I appreciate you advise.

[teachnlearn]

Air conditioning duct works with a lot of formulas. To figure the cfm, friction, size duct...... One idea used is a large main 'trunk' line, say a '20 inch duct', which then has smaller branches, say 4 inch duct' off of it.

As the duct goes through the building, its also losing energy from the friction of the ducts. Longer is going to effect the suction also. Its a balance of the size duct and length of the system, and how many ducts in the system. There are computer software just for that.

From what I can see with the picture, you have a smaller line off of a large line. Then the large line sort of branches and continues. The smaller line is probably pulling pretty well, but the other line of the same size is losing suction from the connection of the small line. If the large line is reduced, it will increase suction. The amount of reduction is up to you.RJF

In case your DYING to do a little math. OR just use one of the other calcs on the page. RJF

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/sizing-ducts-d_207.html

Edited August 4, 2019 by teachnlearn

[kmmcrafts]

13 minutes ago, Rockytime said:

This is weird. I responded to your post three times today on my cell phone.I would hit submit and nothing happened. I retyped and hit submit and nothing happened. The third time I got a message telling me to log in. I tried logging in and my user name and password were not recognized. This evening I tried logging in with my desktop. Message came up saying site was not available. I waited a few minutes and logged in successfully. Now that is taken care of so on to the business at hand. Your two cents made sense. Pardon the pun. You are correct about tight turns. However I am limited to what I can use. But I replaced the Y with  T thus getting rid of the one inverse turn. Works quite well. The upper vacuum is virtually nothing. I guess to have vacuum in both places the two orifices need to be of equal size and share the vacuum. I can"t do that so I'll just go back to blowing the top sawdust away from me. In the meantime I appreciate you advise.

Maybe two vacuums would work better,  

I like your set up.. I need to do this at some point.. It's on my to do list which is quite long.. But first thing is.. I want to get a quieter vacuum.. so I can hear myself think.. Suppose I could get a lot of piping and put the shop vac in the living room next to the TV.. Probably 150ft would do perfect.. That might get everyone off the couch and away from the TV...  

[Rockytime]

9 minutes ago, kmmcrafts said:

Maybe two vacuums would work better,  

I like your set up.. I need to do this at some point.. It's on my to do list which is quite long.. But first thing is.. I want to get a quieter vacuum.. so I can hear myself think.. Suppose I could get a lot of piping and put the shop vac in the living room next to the TV.. Probably 150ft would do perfect.. That might get everyone off the couch and away from the TV...  

Actually two vacuums would be ideal. I have several vacuums. Sort of gathered them over the years but they are screamers. That's why I bought the little HF 13 gallon dust collector motor. It is noisy so it sits on a shelf outside the shop. I While it works just fine I think a powerful vacuum cleaner would work better if I had room in the shop. I do have hearing protection.

[OCtoolguy]

20 hours ago, Rockytime said:

Actually two vacuums would be ideal. I have several vacuums. Sort of gathered them over the years but they are screamers. That's why I bought the little HF 13 gallon dust collector motor. It is noisy so it sits on a shelf outside the shop. I While it works just fine I think a powerful vacuum cleaner would work better if I had room in the shop. I do have hearing protection.

Les, check C/L on a regular basis for a used Fein. I found mine about 2 years ago. I use it in my shop for my EX and also for just clean up. I gave $185 for it. I tried to get the price down but the guy knew what he had. It came with 16 feet of very nice flexible hose. I'm going to plumb my Hawk one of these days so I can use it there too. It's still noisy but way better than any of the shop vacs I've been around. I also built this for my outside vac. I hook it up to my table saw and my spindle sander. I'm going to make a router table to connect to also. Here is what I copied. I think I posted it once before.

 

[Rockytime]

   Actually Ray, I'm negotiating for an 18 inch Hegner now. Making an appointment to see it now.                                                                    

[OCtoolguy]

3 minutes ago, Rockytime said:

   Actually Ray, I'm negotiating for an 18 inch Hegner now. Making an appointment to see it now.                                                                    

Are you going to become a Hegner collector? I had an 18 but I think I would like to have a little one like yours. Unfortunately, they don't offer the quick release for it. Make sure you get a newer one that has that on it. It's an expensive addition.

 

[Rockytime]

The photo shows the quick release and the lever tension release. If I am fortunate to get it I will sell the Hawk and small Hegner. I am too crowded with two saws. I have to stumble over everything. My benches are all pinned to the wall so I can't rearrange things.

[fredfret]

Nice use of used CPAP hose. I'll have to examine that approach 

[Rockytime]

1 minute ago, fredfret said:

Nice use of used CPAP hose. I'll have to examine that approach 

I'm sent one every few months. Don't know why because they don't wear out but are useful for other things.

[OCtoolguy]

2 minutes ago, Rockytime said:

I'm sent one every few months. Don't know why because they don't wear out but are useful for other things.

I was wondering what/where you got that hose. I never can find anything like that when I need it. Luckily for me, I'm not on cpap.

 

[Rockytime]

Check with the old farts in you neighborhood. I'm sure there will be several who would save one for you. They are tough, not the neighbor but the hose and they are very flexible too. Maybe your neighbor is too. :>)

[Roberta Moreton]

4 hours ago, Rockytime said:

I'm sent one every few months. Don't know why because they don't wear out but are useful for other things.

The reason you are sent replacements every few months is because of bacteria that builds up. The same with oxygen hoses. I took care of an older couple for a couple of years. I hope you are replacing the used hoses and repurposing them. Changing them is important. 

[Rockytime]

I do change them but always keep a couple of them. I figure they will come in useful someday like everything else I have kept for 20 years. My wife just groans. :>)

[Paul hd]

10 hours ago, Rockytime said:

   Actually Ray, I'm negotiating for an 18 inch Hegner now. Making an appointment to see it now.                                                                    

Maybe the new Hegner will have its own dust extractor fitted. I find it works great.

[Rolf]

Without getting too complicated, the vacuum will take the path of least resistance. The simplest thing would be to match the top and bottom with the same size orifice, restricting the larger opening.  

I put dust collection on my Hawk and I am using a very quiet Festool MIDI vac that cycles on and off with my saw. I did not like the idea of my large dust collection system cycling and or running all the time that I am cutting. Too much noise. Shop vacs are completely unacceptable as my shop is directly under our great room where my wife spends most of her time. 

I have posted my system images several times, so I am sorry for the repeat.

I used Mag switches to hold it on my saw, easy to remove and no holes to drill. also it is not glued together for easy disassembly if I get something stuck in it.  I also put in a inline trap to ketch those little pieces that I need when the get sucked up.  I also added a swivel joint, since I swing the upper tube out of the way frequently when feeding the blade. The screw keeps the joint from loosening. My blower hose is no longer used!

Note: the sawdust on the saw is from my chop saw in the back ground, Not the scroll saw. I have since moved the chop saw to a different location.

Edited August 5, 2019 by Rolf

[OCtoolguy]

6 hours ago, Rolf said:

Without getting too complicated, the vacuum will take the path of least resistance. The simplest thing would be to match the top and bottom with the same size orifice, restricting the larger opening.  

I put dust collection on my Hawk and I am using a very quiet Festool MIDI vac that cycles on and off with my saw. I did not like the idea of my large dust collection system cycling and or running all the time that I am cutting. Too much noise. Shop vacs are completely unacceptable as my shop is directly under our great room where my wife spends most of her time. 

I have posted my system images several times, so I am sorry for the repeat.

I used Mag switches to hold it on my saw, easy to remove and no holes to drill. also it is not glued together for easy disassembly if I get something stuck in it.  I also put in a inline trap to ketch those little pieces that I need when the get sucked up.  I also added a swivel joint, since I swing the upper tube out of the way frequently when feeding the blade. The screw keeps the joint from loosening. My blower hose is no longer used!

Note: the sawdust on the saw is from my chop saw in the back ground, Not the scroll saw. I have since moved the chop saw to a different location.

Rolf, my Dad was the plumber. Not me. I'm not familiar with all the fittings. Is your swivel joint a simple PVC union? If not, can you explain what it is and how it works? Is the screw simply there to keep it together? I like the way your system is designed and I want to duplicate it on my Hawk. Thanks for the pics and any added information.

 

[Rockytime]

Thanks Rolf. Dynamic system you have. Not sure that works as well on the Hegner as the Hawk has that great extra space along side the saw. The Hegner does not have that. That does not mean something cannot be fabricated. The "Mag Switches." I had looked into them some time ago. $35 and up. I would have to wait for Santa Clause. Although my dial test indicators are all mounted on mag switch type holders. I never get tired perusing your DC photos.

[Sycamore67]

I built a dust collection system in 2013 for my Hegner and connected to a Festool CT26.  It has  worked very well.

 

 

[Scrappile]

Since we are talking dust collection again, I have two saws each with my version of the setup in the above posts using PVC pipe.  My vacuum sits between the saws and I switch the vacuum to which saw I am using.  I have been looking, ever since I put the systems together for the right hose/fittings to switch the DC back and forth with.  Then a couple weeks ago I was looking at what Rockler had on their current sale.  They had this hose/fittings set and it looked pretty good to me.  I got it, I like it.  The only problem is the hose is much longer than I need, it will expand to 15'.  I don't want to cut it because it works so good with my orbital sander and hand belt sanders.  I may make some kind of holder that will keep it constricted (?), but that I can easily pull it out of when I want to attach it to other tools.   It even increased the suction some and reduce the air noise a little.  

 https://www.rockler.com/dust-right-universal-small-port-hose-kit