Rockytime Posted August 25, 2019 Report Share Posted August 25, 2019 I was cutting a pattern by Grampa. I was using 3/16" underlayment without a backer. It is not a difficult pattern but the tiger's whiskers are quite fine. some are little more than a couple of blade widths apart. All went well until I was cutting some of those. I will still use the underlayment for many things but I decided to determine how thick is the veneer on that wood. I saved a small piece that flaked off. Here is what I found The piece consisted of one layer of shelf liner, pattern and veneer. the total thickness of the little sandwich was ..0220. Subtracting the thickness of the shelf paper .0034 and the thickness of the 50# pattern paper .0040, the remaining left for the veneer is .0146. That is why it is cheap. I don't know how thick the veneer on quality BB is but it is substantially thicker as well as free from imperfections. Kinda ruined a great pattern. Looks like Woodcraft, here I come. RabidAlien, OCtoolguy, jollyred and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawson56 Posted August 25, 2019 Report Share Posted August 25, 2019 I have had that happen to my work many times,I buy 1/4 plywood from my local lumber comp, I have found out that one side seems to be glued better than the other side,I have yet to ask them where they get there plywood.I bought a sheet of BB, it wasn't any better than the regular 1/4 plywood. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilson142 Posted August 25, 2019 Report Share Posted August 25, 2019 I feel your pain. I cut quite a bit from that 3 ply underlayment, but I try to stay away from patterns with those very fine lines. I like to sand the top surface with 220 grit before applying the pattern. I try to convince myself that sanding 1st keeps the adhesive from the contact paper from sinking too deep and pulling the veneer up on removal. I am often amazed when I look at the back side at how destroyed looking it is. The top layer on BB is much thicker. I noticed that Scoller Online advertises Fininsh plywood. Haven't a clue about that stuff. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edward Posted August 25, 2019 Report Share Posted August 25, 2019 Been there done that, know how you feel, on wasting a pattern. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappile Posted August 25, 2019 Report Share Posted August 25, 2019 I've had that happen on Baltic Birch also. Seems like it is getting harder and harder to find a decent sheet of it in my area. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heppnerguy Posted August 30, 2019 Report Share Posted August 30, 2019 I have had that happen on the back side of the wood but not on the top. Are you sure you did not have your blade in upside down at that time? Just a thought. Dick heppnerguy OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockytime Posted August 31, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2019 No Dick, but the Pegas mg blades do have some reverse teeth at the bottom. Only happens when two cuts are very close together. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crupiea Posted August 31, 2019 Report Share Posted August 31, 2019 Not the end of the world. You can simply cut those damaged pieces off anbd use them as a pattern to cut replacement pieces. Glue them onto the rest of the piece and then you will just have a tiny line where you glued them together. You can just leave it because no one will really see it or wood putty it with a bit of sawdust and glue. Then sand it smooth. danny, Wilson142, heppnerguy and 2 others 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heppnerguy Posted August 31, 2019 Report Share Posted August 31, 2019 17 hours ago, Rockytime said: No Dick, but the Pegas mg blades do have some reverse teeth at the bottom. Only happens when two cuts are very close together. I have had this happen to me and I have found that using the smallest blade will help. I think a spiral 0/3or a double tooth 0/2 are the least aggressive blades. My experience also seems to prove out that the Pegas blades are the most aggressive blades and so the smaller blades work extremely well in thicker woods but not so well in 1/4 inch and thinner woods. That is how it is for me. One needs to experiment with different methods to find the best overall blades and woods for themselves, as I know you already know. Dick heppnerguy OCtoolguy and Rockytime 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockytime Posted August 31, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2019 You are correct. I'm now cutting 1/8 and 3/16 underlayment with 2/0 Pegas mg blades with no tear out. When I first started scrolling the Pegas blades were frightening. Now they are my go to blade. OCtoolguy and heppnerguy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxfold Posted August 31, 2019 Report Share Posted August 31, 2019 Les, please excuse my ignorance, but could you tell me what 'underlayment' is? It's a term I haven't heard before. Thanks OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockytime Posted September 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 Hi Brenda. Underlayment is a cheap, thin plywood placed on a bare floor upon which the final and finishing floor material is placed down. It may be referred as something else in the UK. It is not considered good for scrolling because the veneer on the outside is so thin. However many scrollers use it because it is fairly inexpensive and usually has a nice finish. It does not like most reverse blades because it lifts the veneer from the front of the work. I use it fairly well with a #2/0 Pegas mg blade. Also works best on patterns without extremely fine detail. May work even better for others. OCtoolguy and Foxfold 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilson142 Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 Underlayment is typically 3 layers as opposed to 5 layers with most Baltic Birch. The veneer is thinner and the overall thickness is is less than BB. I haven't had a lifting problem using spirals, but removing the pattern has caused me problems. I find some of the problems can be avoided if the surface is sanded first before applying the pattern and using heat when removing it. That being my experience with it, I avoid using underlayment for intricate patterns. I have examples in my gallery of some projects cut with underlayment and they were all cut with spiral blades. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Barton Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 I wondered what underlayment was too! Floors in the UK are not normally laid on top of thin plywood. Where plywood is used for sub-floor support, it will be much thicker; and where thinner material is used (e.g.under click-together flooring), it'll be 5mm soft fibre panels or 2mm foam off a roll. None of which information helps us to find cheap, usable scrolling materials over here! Foxfold and OCtoolguy 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilson142 Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 4 hours ago, Harry Barton said: I wondered what underlayment was too! Floors in the UK are not normally laid on top of thin plywood. Where plywood is used for sub-floor support, it will be much thicker; and where thinner material is used (e.g.under click-together flooring), it'll be 5mm soft fibre panels or 2mm foam off a roll. None of which information helps us to find cheap, usable scrolling materials over here! The underlayment I have used is put down over 3/4" plywood and is intended to cover the gaps between sheets of flooring to create a smoother surface for ceramic tiles and sometimes vinyl flooring. I have some laminate flooring that was installed over a roll of substrate (hate laminate) personally. I have scrolled some of it though. lol (what the heck is that stuff??) Hard on blades in my experience. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Barton Posted September 2, 2019 Report Share Posted September 2, 2019 On 9/1/2019 at 1:25 PM, Wilson142 said: The underlayment I have used is put down over 3/4" plywood and is intended to cover the gaps between sheets of flooring to create a smoother surface for ceramic tiles and sometimes vinyl flooring. I have some laminate flooring that was installed over a roll of substrate (hate laminate) personally. I have scrolled some of it though. lol (what the heck is that stuff??) Hard on blades in my experience. I've fitted laminate flooring, which is awful stuff, glue-together engineered wood flooring, which I like, and click-together engineered wood flooring, which I like even more. I do have some leftovers from a recent project. It's 5/8" thick, with only the top 1/8" real oak, and I'm not sure what I'll be able to produce with the scroll saw (other than firewood). OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimErn Posted September 2, 2019 Report Share Posted September 2, 2019 8 minutes ago, Harry Barton said: I've fitted laminate flooring, which is awful stuff, glue-together engineered wood flooring, which I like, and click-together engineered wood flooring, which I like even more. I do have some leftovers from a recent project. It's 5/8" thick, with only the top 1/8" real oak, and I'm not sure what I'll be able to produce with the scroll saw (other than firewood). I cut some flooring laminate once, never again, you burn through blades, the epoxy or what ever they use to make it will wear the teeth right off the blade OCtoolguy and Harry Barton 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilson142 Posted September 2, 2019 Report Share Posted September 2, 2019 11 minutes ago, Harry Barton said: I've fitted laminate flooring, which is awful stuff, glue-together engineered wood flooring, which I like, and click-together engineered wood flooring, which I like even more. I do have some leftovers from a recent project. It's 5/8" thick, with only the top 1/8" real oak, and I'm not sure what I'll be able to produce with the scroll saw (other than firewood). Some of the laminate flooring here is actually only a picture of wood adhered to some sort of plastic looking stuff. Not at all water friendly. If scratched can't be repaired only replaced. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCtoolguy Posted September 3, 2019 Report Share Posted September 3, 2019 When I was at H/D the other day I saw, in the flooring section, they have 4" square floor samples free for the taking. I didn't take any but the thought of scrolling them DID enter my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockytime Posted September 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2019 I have scrolled a. few of them. They seemed to cut ok. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzarkSawdust Posted September 3, 2019 Report Share Posted September 3, 2019 5 hours ago, octoolguy said: When I was at H/D the other day I saw, in the flooring section, they have 4" square floor samples free for the taking. I didn't take any but the thought of scrolling them DID enter my mind. Wood floor samples? OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockytime Posted September 4, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 Yes, little 4X4" square samples for wood floors. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilson142 Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 I have a fair amount of "laminate" flooring, think Pergo type that I will cut. It isn't real wood but looks pretty good for some things. Eats blades like crazy and I sure don't want to breath any of the dust. They are around 7" x 36". OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzarkSawdust Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 18 hours ago, Rockytime said: Yes, little 4X4" square samples for wood floors. I did the same thing earlier this week...lol. I was at Lowes and walked by the wood flooring isle...stopped and looked at the samples and ones marked down. The thought went through my head…" wonder if anyone has tried to scroll one of those"...lol. I was going to ask...but being a newbie I thought I had better keep my mouth shut. I'm glad to know there are others that weird scrolling thoughts when they see a piece of wood! If I see a solid wood floor sample I'll grab it! OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCtoolguy Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 30 minutes ago, OzarkSawdust said: I did the same thing earlier this week...lol. I was at Lowes and walked by the wood flooring isle...stopped and looked at the samples and ones marked down. The thought went through my head…" wonder if anyone has tried to scroll one of those"...lol. I was going to ask...but being a newbie I thought I had better keep my mouth shut. I'm glad to know there are others that weird scrolling thoughts when they see a piece of wood! If I see a solid wood floor sample I'll grab it! Well, I realize the samples are there for the taking but since I'm not going to be buying any flooring, I didn't feel right by taking any of them. Lots to choose from though. Maybe just a couple? OzarkSawdust 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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