I Broke My Antler!

[Wilson142]

9 hours ago, OzarkSawdust said:

???  Your post just showed my statement...did you mean to reply? 

I did reply, click on the "more"

[OzarkSawdust]

9 hours ago, Wilson142 said:

I did reply, click on the "more"

Oh....OK Thanks! I just didn't see it inside of the "quote box" . I'm just so use to seeing the comments below the quote box I didn't even think of looking there. Now I know where to look if I see that again! Learn something every day.

Yea I thought that looked kind of funky when I looked at it close. When I picked it up at Lowe's it didn't dawn on me there were two (maybe more) kinds of "1/4" birch plywood" so I just grabbed a piece. I live in a small town (about 4500) an hour S of Kansas City and our lumber yard doesn't have it. Carthage (30 mi S.) is the closest Lowe's, I got that stuff there. There is a HD, another Lowe's, Southerland in Joplin, about 45 min. away. I think I'll order a few 1/4" x 12" x 12" from  The Wood & Shop ($1.58 ea.) and Heritage Wood ($2.20 ea.) to see which product I like best. Then I can take a sample piece to local lumber yard to see if they can get me some. 

 

I looked in your gallery...you do beautiful work!! Besides seeing that you use underlayment a lot, I noticed you use spiral blades most of the time, at least of those projects. Are they hard to work with? I'm just starting to scroll, should I get a few months experience with flat blades before I try a spiral? 

Edited September 14, 2019 by OzarkSawdust

[heppnerguy]

6 hours ago, OzarkSawdust said:

Oh....OK Thanks! I just didn't see it inside of the "quote box" . I'm just so use to seeing the comments below the quote box I didn't even think of looking there. Now I know where to look if I see that again! Learn something every day.

Yea I thought that looked kind of funky when I looked at it close. When I picked it up at Lowe's it didn't dawn on me there were two (maybe more) kinds of "1/4" birch plywood" so I just grabbed a piece. I live in a small town (about 4500) an hour S of Kansas City and our lumber yard doesn't have it. Carthage (30 mi S.) is the closest Lowe's, I got that stuff there. There is a HD, another Lowe's, Southerland in Joplin, about 45 min. away. I think I'll order a few 1/4" x 12" x 12" from  The Wood & Shop ($1.58 ea.) and Heritage Wood ($2.20 ea.) to see which product I like best. Then I can take a sample piece to local lumber yard to see if they can get me some. 

 

I looked in your gallery...you do beautiful work!! Besides seeing that you use underlayment a lot, I noticed you use spiral blades most of the time, at least of those projects. Are they hard to work with? I'm just starting to scroll, should I get a few months experience with flat blades before I try a spiral? 

Because scroll saw blades work so differently from the regular flat blades, many scroller simply do not like them. The first time one tries them, they do not like them because they seem to not make a smooth straight line and a lot more saw dust. One mistake I think people do is to use too large of a blade. Also they seem to work a lot easier at a higher speed and I believe because on the first time use of a spiral one thinks it is best to go slow and get the feel of one. I would suggest that one should start by drawing some lines on a !/4 inch thick piece of wood and practice making turns as well as straight lines and maybe even cutting out circles and squares and some odd shapes. This would give you the feel of a spiral blade without messing up an intended project and you can start to see if you can manage a spiral. Many spiral cutters that like to cut a lot of fret use only spirals for that. I have found that  the spiral blade is more forgiving on delicate cuts and there is less breakage. Go easy and let the blade do the cutting. I would suggest nothing bigger than a number 1 blade for this effort

Dick

heppnerguy

[heppnerguy]

20 minutes ago, heppnerguy said:

Because scroll saw blades work so differently from the regular flat blades, many scroller simply do not like them. The first time one tries them, they do not like them because they seem to not make a smooth straight line and a lot more saw dust. One mistake I think people do is to use too large of a blade. Also they seem to work a lot easier at a higher speed and I believe because on the first time use of a spiral one thinks it is best to go slow and get the feel of one. I would suggest that one should start by drawing some lines on a !/4 inch thick piece of wood and practice making turns as well as straight lines and maybe even cutting out circles and squares and some odd shapes. This would give you the feel of a spiral blade without messing up an intended project and you can start to see if you can manage a spiral. Many spiral cutters that like to cut a lot of fret use only spirals for that. I have found that  the spiral blade is more forgiving on delicate cuts and there is less breakage. Go easy and let the blade do the cutting. I would suggest nothing bigger than a number 1 blade for this effort

Dick

heppnerguy

were you able to upsize the pattern I made for you?

[OzarkSawdust]

19 minutes ago, heppnerguy said:

were you able to upsize the pattern I made for you?

No, What did you use to make it? I also tried to put it on Inkscape and enlarge it...it cut off most of the doe and the "e" even though it showed fine on the screen.

[crupiea]

I like to lift weights. 

Dave Draper has always been a great role model.  The guy always worked out hard and of course, got lots of injuries.  he was always a big proponent of having a work around.  Hurt your arm, you can work something else and so on. 

There is a work around for this antler.  Just have to figure it out. 

[Wilson142]

10 hours ago, OzarkSawdust said:

 

 

I looked in your gallery...you do beautiful work!! Besides seeing that you use underlayment a lot, I noticed you use spiral blades most of the time, at least of those projects. Are they hard to work with? I'm just starting to scroll, should I get a few months experience with flat blades before I try a spiral? 

When I 1st started scroll sawing there were no YouTube videos and not many people even had computers. I saw a scroll saw and thought it looked interesting, so I bought it. I checked out the blades available and it simply seemed to make sense to me to use spirals. That's what I started with and stuck with for many years. Now I use both types but spirals are my go to blades. I need to be challenged or I lose interest. I started doing fairly tough fretwork patterns from day one. It's only wood and some time. If I fail, big deal. I just move on. I think you should cut what you like. Don't limit yourself because someone tells you "that is too hard for a beginner". It's not as if you're going to hurt yourself or wreck your saw because you decide to challenge yourself with a hard pattern. If you will be happy with simple "beginner patterns" then by all means cut them. But if you would be happier cutting something that you aren't sure you are ready for, I say take the challenge and try to hide that smile you'll have on your face when you find out all patterns are cut one hole at a time and Wow, you impressed yourself! 

 

[Roberta Moreton]

You can mail order Baltic Birch Plywood. I order it off of EBay. Check to be sure the supplier is Cherokee. You will get good stuff. 

[heppnerguy]

8 minutes ago, Wilson142 said:

When I 1st started scroll sawing there were no YouTube videos and not many people even had computers. I saw a scroll saw and thought it looked interesting, so I bought it. I checked out the blades available and it simply seemed to make sense to me to use spirals. That's what I started with and stuck with for many years. Now I use both types but spirals are my go to blades. I need to be challenged or I lose interest. I started doing fairly tough fretwork patterns from day one. It's only wood and some time. If I fail, big deal. I just move on. I think you should cut what you like. Don't limit yourself because someone tells you "that is too hard for a beginner". It's not as if you're going to hurt yourself or wreck your saw because you decide to challenge yourself with a hard pattern. If you will be happy with simple "beginner patterns" then by all means cut them. But if you would be happier cutting something that you aren't sure you are ready for, I say take the challenge and try to hide that smile you'll have on your face when you find out all patterns are cut one hole at a time and Wow, you impressed yourself! 

 

I do not disagree with your premise but sometimes people try things for the first time and put their all into it and they fail because it was too difficult for most beginners. that  is why when someone wants to be really good at oil painting, they take classes and continue to find better teachers until they find their own style and use what they have learned from others. But some jump in and think if they give it their best efforts and fail, then they just tried to do something they really can not do themselves. So as a result, they give it up as a lost cause. My belief is most people can learn about anything if they do not expect to be Rembrandts when they first try. So seeing they can cut an outline of an animal and it looks like the animal they are cutting, it gives them some assurance that they can indeed do that. But if they start off trying to cut a detailed Eiffel Tower and after hours and days of cutting, nothing goes together or they have a lot of broken pieces. They just might throw in the towel and move on to something else.

   Some people can handle these inabilities and keep trying while others will be defeated by them. So with this in mind, starting on easy projects and feeling successful and then challenging themselves and trying something they thought was way beyond their abilities and they find out they can do that, helps some to continue on the road to happiness instead of defeat. I would rather the ones who are easily defeated taste success and progress slowly into more difficult items then to see anyone quite because they think they found out it is way beyond their abilities  I am not saying you are wrong, I am just stating how I feel about this idea

 

Dick

heppnerguy

[heppnerguy]

3 hours ago, OzarkSawdust said:

No, What did you use to make it? I also tried to put it on Inkscape and enlarge it...it cut off most of the doe and the "e" even though it showed fine on the screen.

what  ever you are going to print has to be inside the box. Any part that overlaps the box will not be printed, even though it is selected. You also have to go to the top left and click on 'file. then scroll down to 'document properties' and click on that. It will open another box on the right then select 'in' for inches and select the 8 1/2 by 11 paper size.  Very important to do that so you know what the printer will be seeing when you do to print it. 

Dick

heppnerguy

[OzarkSawdust]

32 minutes ago, heppnerguy said:

what  ever you are going to print has to be inside the box. Any part that overlaps the box will not be printed, even though it is selected. You also have to go to the top left and click on 'file. then scroll down to 'document properties' and click on that. It will open another box on the right then select 'in' for inches and select the 8 1/2 by 11 paper size.  Very important to do that so you know what the printer will be seeing when you do to print it. 

Dick

heppnerguy

Yup...I opened that and set it to "US Letter"...the second time lol. I also had it all in the box, it still cut off parts. But I found and loaded it into Image Resizer on line and it printed out full page!

[OzarkSawdust]

44 minutes ago, heppnerguy said:

I do not disagree with your premise but sometimes people try things for the first time and put their all into it and they fail because it was too difficult for most beginners. that  is why when someone wants to be really good at oil painting, they take classes and continue to find better teachers until they find their own style and use what they have learned from others. But some jump in and think if they give it their best efforts and fail, then they just tried to do something they really can not do themselves. So as a result, they give it up as a lost cause. My belief is most people can learn about anything if they do not expect to be Rembrandts when they first try. So seeing they can cut an outline of an animal and it looks like the animal they are cutting, it gives them some assurance that they can indeed do that. But if they start off trying to cut a detailed Eiffel Tower and after hours and days of cutting, nothing goes together or they have a lot of broken pieces. They just might throw in the towel and move on to something else.

   Some people can handle these inabilities and keep trying while others will be defeated by them. So with this in mind, starting on easy projects and feeling successful and then challenging themselves and trying something they thought was way beyond their abilities and they find out they can do that, helps some to continue on the road to happiness instead of defeat. I would rather the ones who are easily defeated taste success and progress slowly into more difficult items then to see anyone quite because they think they found out it is way beyond their abilities  I am not saying you are wrong, I am just stating how I feel about this idea

 

Dick

heppnerguy

I tend to agree with your train of thought. I cut out a cat the night I got the saw...it looked like a cat. OK step one...done. I took a key hanger pattern that looked like a 5th wheel RV, cut out most of it learned what I wanted to know, and moved on. First...cedar fence picket wood is fine for bird houses...not so much for scrolling! Second...need a big hole to get a pinned blade through, a pinless blade is better for any inside cut. On to the next project...buck, doe, love. I think it came out fairly well...except I learned another lesson. Now I know what a floater/island is...lol...and that I can add a bridge to get around it. Next pattern I learned you can cut a thin spot a little wider (sometimes) to keep it from breaking, and no one will ever know you got off the cut line. 

With every project I make a mistake or something I could do better...and learn something. With the help of all you fantastic people on the forum my learning curve is much shorter and faster! I find things I need to add for this hobby...tools, blades, patterns (and how to make my own!) better wood...etc. I've got a bunch of Flying Dutchman blades (2/0, 1, 3) on the way as well as some "real" Baltic birch plywood from Ocooch. Haven't done a clock yet...so I've got a clock works coming and a cute bear cub pattern.

I keep eying things like... Brenda's gorilla, Dave Monk's Harley box, Scrappile's BB King, and a host of others. As long as I keep learning something, large or small, I'll keep getting closer to that caliber of projects.

[heppnerguy]

3 hours ago, OzarkSawdust said:

I tend to agree with your train of thought. I cut out a cat the night I got the saw...it looked like a cat. OK step one...done. I took a key hanger pattern that looked like a 5th wheel RV, cut out most of it learned what I wanted to know, and moved on. First...cedar fence picket wood is fine for bird houses...not so much for scrolling! Second...need a big hole to get a pinned blade through, a pinless blade is better for any inside cut. On to the next project...buck, doe, love. I think it came out fairly well...except I learned another lesson. Now I know what a floater/island is...lol...and that I can add a bridge to get around it. Next pattern I learned you can cut a thin spot a little wider (sometimes) to keep it from breaking, and no one will ever know you got off the cut line. 

With every project I make a mistake or something I could do better...and learn something. With the help of all you fantastic people on the forum my learning curve is much shorter and faster! I find things I need to add for this hobby...tools, blades, patterns (and how to make my own!) better wood...etc. I've got a bunch of Flying Dutchman blades (2/0, 1, 3) on the way as well as some "real" Baltic birch plywood from Ocooch. Haven't done a clock yet...so I've got a clock works coming and a cute bear cub pattern.

I keep eying things like... Brenda's gorilla, Dave Monk's Harley box, Scrappile's BB King, and a host of others. As long as I keep learning something, large or small, I'll keep getting closer to that caliber of projects.

great attitude and I have been scrolling for several years and I am constantly learning and still trying new things. I think when one thinks they know it all, they have closed their mind to what others have to say. I believe one can learn something from every person they meet. 

Dick

heppnerguy

[Wilson142]

12 hours ago, heppnerguy said:

  I am not saying you are wrong, I am just stating how I feel about this idea

 

Dick

heppnerguy

It's not about being right or wrong. I'm looking at it from my perspective and what works for me. For me, had I started with simple patterns, I would have become bored and quit.  I learn more by pushing the envelope a bit than from sneaking up on it with baby steps. I never felt any pressure about failing. It's just wood. When I fail, quitting never enters my mind. I simply move on. I have a ton to learn and I hope I never stop trying to improve. I'm not getting any younger and I'm growing impatient. I need to reach further now than I would have 20 years ago. Time marches on and there are things I want to do while I still can.

[heppnerguy]

53 minutes ago, Wilson142 said:

It's not about being right or wrong. I'm looking at it from my perspective and what works for me. For me, had I started with simple patterns, I would have become bored and quit.  I learn more by pushing the envelope a bit than from sneaking up on it with baby steps. I never felt any pressure about failing. It's just wood. When I fail, quitting never enters my mind. I simply move on. I have a ton to learn and I hope I never stop trying to improve. I'm not getting any younger and I'm growing impatient. I need to reach further now than I would have 20 years ago. Time marches on and there are things I want to do while I still can.

you are an exception person with the mind set we all would like to have. For me to succeed at something, gives me the incentive to try further. If I try my hardest and fail, then I immediately decide it is something that I can not do. I wish I was more like you but I am not. Being willing to accept my limits but understanding  that if I go easy I WILL IMPROVE, helps me to want to learn as I go and then try new things as I progress. That is the way I am built, I guess. I understand that it is OK to be different from one another but at the same time respecting others view points. That is what I like about The Village, is I have learned that there are many ways to do the same thing. Everyone has their own blade, saw and wood favorites. Everyone is a little different and has their own personalities but everyone is always friendly and helpful to one another. 

   I hope I did not offend you, I was only pointing out going slowly with something new is sometimes a better way for some people rather then feeling like a 'I can't do this" and quitting at the beginning. I always  encourage new scrollers, even if they are struggling and having their own doubts about themselves and their abilities. I don't always like the way I am but I am always willing to give most things a try. Not so much now that I am getting older though.

In ending, I want to say that I truly admire your attitude and willingness to tackle things head on and not worry so much about the results but that you know you can do whatever you decide to tackle. I will I was more like that, but I am not. Don't get me wrong, I like to accomplish what I set out to do, but I have learned for me, not to set my ambitions too high at first. Glad we had this discussion as you pointed out to me that there are more then one way to look at things and so once again I learn from someone I do not even know. 

One last thing, I see you live in Tucson and I live in Casa Grande. If you are ever coming up to Casa Grande, send me a note and plan to come to our house so we can meet and get to know each other. I would really enjoy that. I have made many friends here and spend time with them whenever I am in their neighborhood. Most of them live in Oregon so I do not have a lot of opportunity to do so but  I cherish it whenever I do.

Dick

heppnerguy

 

 

[Wilson142]

5 minutes ago, heppnerguy said:

you are an exception person with the mind set we all would like to have. For me to succeed at something, gives me the incentive to try further. If I try my hardest and fail, then I immediately decide it is something that I can not do. I wish I was more like you but I am not. Being willing to accept my limits but understanding  that if I go easy I WILL IMPROVE, helps me to want to learn as I go and then try new things as I progress. That is the way I am built, I guess. I understand that it is OK to be different from one another but at the same time respecting others view points. That is what I like about The Village, is I have learned that there are many ways to do the same thing. Everyone has their own blade, saw and wood favorites. Everyone is a little different and has their own personalities but everyone is always friendly and helpful to one another. 

   I hope I did not offend you, I was only pointing out going slowly with something new is sometimes a better way for some people rather then feeling like a 'I can't do this" and quitting at the beginning. I always  encourage new scrollers, even if they are struggling and having their own doubts about themselves and their abilities. I don't always like the way I am but I am always willing to give most things a try. Not so much now that I am getting older though.

In ending, I want to say that I truly admire your attitude and willingness to tackle things head on and not worry so much about the results but that you know you can do whatever you decide to tackle. I will I was more like that, but I am not. Don't get me wrong, I like to accomplish what I set out to do, but I have learned for me, not to set my ambitions too high at first. Glad we had this discussion as you pointed out to me that there are more then one way to look at things and so once again I learn from someone I do not even know. 

One last thing, I see you live in Tucson and I live in Casa Grande. If you are ever coming up to Casa Grande, send me a note and plan to come to our house so we can meet and get to know each other. I would really enjoy that. I have made many friends here and spend time with them whenever I am in their neighborhood. Most of them live in Oregon so I do not have a lot of opportunity to do so but  I cherish it whenever I do.

Dick

heppnerguy

 

 

I have reached the age that it is very hard to offend me. lol I'm not an exception, I'm simply extremely stubborn. When I see something that interests me, I don't think wow, I wish I knew how to do that. I tend to think, hey, I bet I could learn that. Doesn't always turn out, but it did for scrolling, turning wood, stained glass a bit of wood carving etc. Certainly not an expert at any of that, but I can fake it a bit. I failed miserably at the guitar, painting with oils and watercolors  just to name a few.

     I'm originally from Minneapolis but retired early (56) and moved to Panama City, Panama. From there to Mazatlan, Mexico for 6 years and finally Tucson. Never been to Casa Grande, but I'm a Blues music freak and I noticed Buddy Guy (from Chicago) is playing in Casa Grande. Got my curiosity up and I noticed Casa Grande has some pretty good looking music venues so, me visiting one day isn't out of the realm. Looks to be an hour and a half away so maybe we'll meet some day.  

[heppnerguy]

4 minutes ago, Wilson142 said:

I have reached the age that it is very hard to offend me. lol I'm not an exception, I'm simply extremely stubborn. When I see something that interests me, I don't think wow, I wish I knew how to do that. I tend to think, hey, I bet I could learn that. Doesn't always turn out, but it did for scrolling, turning wood, stained glass a bit of wood carving etc. Certainly not an expert at any of that, but I can fake it a bit. I failed miserably at the guitar, painting with oils and watercolors  just to name a few.

     I'm originally from Minneapolis but retired early (56) and moved to Panama City, Panama. From there to Mazatlan, Mexico for 6 years and finally Tucson. Never been to Casa Grande, but I'm a Blues music freak and I noticed Buddy Guy (from Chicago) is playing in Casa Grande. Got my curiosity up and I noticed Casa Grande has some pretty good looking music venues so, me visiting one day isn't out of the realm. Looks to be an hour and a half away so maybe we'll meet some day.  

I would really like that. I too like blues but my wife does not.  With the 75 mph speed limit I think it is more like an hour between the two cities. I go your way about 4 times a year as like to take people to Tombstone because I love that place and the history of Arizona so much.

Dick

 

[OzarkSawdust]

1 hour ago, heppnerguy said:

I would really like that. I too like blues but my wife does not.  With the 75 mph speed limit I think it is more like an hour between the two cities. I go your way about 4 times a year as like to take people to Tombstone because I love that place and the history of Arizona so much.

Dick

 

I noticed that and thought you two already knew each other.  I use to live in Tucson several years ago (on Grant just a couple blocks off I10) and have been to and through Casa Grande tons of times. We had close friends that lived on a golf course in Mesa, we would take the motorhome and park in front of their house for the weekend at least once a month. And we went to Tombstone a bunch also!

I'm like you...I like Blues, the more recent stuff, but my wife doesn't. I didn't see Buddy Guy being in Casa Grande...but he will be in Chandler next March! I thought about going to see him in Tulsa this Thursday at the Hard Rock Casino...but wife doesn't want to and I don't want to go by myself.

I wonder if there are any scrollers close to me to meet? Small world when I see scrollers from other countries on here. Guess that makes us all "Village People"...lol I couldn't resist. 

Edited September 15, 2019 by OzarkSawdust

[Wilson142]

56 minutes ago, OzarkSawdust said:

I noticed that and thought you two already knew each other.  I use to live in Tucson several years ago (on Grant just a couple blocks off I10) and have been to and through Casa Grande tons of times. We had close friends that lived on a golf course in Mesa, we would take the motorhome and park in front of their house for the weekend at least once a month. And we went to Tombstone a bunch also!

I'm like you...I like Blues, the more recent stuff, but my wife doesn't. I didn't see Buddy Guy being in Casa Grande...but he will be in Chandler next March! I thought about going to see him in Tulsa this Thursday at the Hard Rock Casino...but wife doesn't want to and I don't want to go by myself.

I wonder if there are any scrollers close to me to meet? Small world when I see scrollers from other countries on here. Guess that makes us all "Village People"...lol I couldn't resist. 

You're right, it is Chandler.                  "Guess that makes us all "Village People", Yeah, I'm the one dressed like an American Indian.

The music scene in Tucson is abysmal. Minneapolis has more live music in a month than Tucson has in a year.  I miss that.

 

[OzarkSawdust]

1 hour ago, Wilson142 said:

You're right, it is Chandler.                  "Guess that makes us all "Village People", Yeah, I'm the one dressed like an American Indian.

The music scene in Tucson is abysmal. Minneapolis has more live music in a month than Tucson has in a year.  I miss that.

 

Yea...we managed a couple of retirement homes in Austin about 12 yrs ago. I think even Dairy Queen has live music in that town! Tucson did have a bunch of restaurants that had live Mariachi bands. 

[Phantom Scroller]

Loads of good advice and my two pennies worth is the pattern is there as a guide if it gets to small go wide no one will ever notice. Roly

[Wilson142]

6 hours ago, Phantom Scroller said:

Loads of good advice and my two pennies worth is the pattern is there as a guide if it gets to small go wide no one will ever notice. Roly

Very true. I was watching Charles Dearing cut one of his original designs on youtube and he messed up and cut off the line. Someone asked, "now what??" Charles simply smiled and to paraphrase his answer he said "this started out as a custom original and now the customer will receive an even more custom original" Usually only the person who is doing the cutting will notice most mistakes. Now what I have to learn is to stop pointing them out to people.

[OzarkSawdust]

Take two…!

I redid the same pattern changing two things. 1. I used a piece of Poplar I had laying around. My REAL B/BB will be in later this week. 2. When I got to the real narrow spots I cut them just a hair wider. 

Now what about ideas for finishing, this and others using B/BB. Natural piece with dark backer...stain darker piece with light backer? If natural (Poplar, Birch, etc. ) what do you use to give it the nicest finish? Do most of you make a frame for a wall piece or  sand the edges and hang it? Keep in mind I want to sell a lot of the things I'll be making. More money for wood and tools, lol... and I don't have much more room to keep everything!

 

[Wilson142]

Looking good!

As for your question "Now what about ideas for finishing, this and others using B/BB. Natural piece with dark backer...stain darker piece with light backer? If natural (Poplar, Birch, etc. ) what do you use to give it the nicest finish? Do most of you make a frame for a wall piece or  sand the edges and hang it?"       I have a feeling the replies will be mostly, yes. Many leave natural, some stain, a few paint some pieces, frames are optional lol     You'll find what you like. There's some brilliantly finished pieces here and some very unique ones as well. I spare no expense and buy a lot of frames from the local 99 cent store. I figure being that I gift things instead of selling them, they can upgrade the frames themselves. You should see how many pieces I have stacked in my spare bedroom. LOL    I may have to break down and do a sale or two.  Really hate doing that though.

[Phantom Scroller]

Antique pine stain and spray lacquer to follow for me looks great. Roly

PS: NICE RED BACKER BOARD

Edited September 16, 2019 by Phantom Scroller