Excalibur Bearings = Junk Saw? ( Update It Runs Again )

[kmmcrafts]

Okay folks... finally took this saw apart.. was determined to make it run as everyone claims they do.. I've toyed with the saw quite a lot over the couple years I've owned it.. but it's never been what I considered "working right" 

For those that don't know.. I'll do a little re-cap.. I bought the saw second hand ( though still in the sealed box ) back when the saw was no longer available in the USA for that short time.. The young man I got it from said he won it in a raffle at his job's Christmas party.. he also mentioned to me that his father worked at Home Depot and that his father claimed they was bringing the Excalibur back to HD in the USA.  A few month later we all get the news that they are coming back but made in a new plant in China..

Not sure how the young man got his hands on the China made machine that I have.. I never knew it was a China made machine until one day while doing some organizing I run across the original box that said right on the sticker " Made In China " I did a double take on that.. then right away went to the saw and low and behold the I.D. tag said the same..

From day one I had issues with the upper clamp.. just was sloppy and would troublesome.. I thought it was just me being new to the saw.. though I used a DeWalt for 12 years and it's not that much different to be having such issues.. Buying the Pegas clamps solved most of those issues... Then started in with the self adjusting of the nob at the back of the saw.. was so bad that even doing small fret cutouts I'd have to stop and re-position that knob.. Finally tired of this I took the thing apart and put blue loc-tite on the treads which solved it.. 

The saw has always been a little noisy and kept getting worst over time.. I finally took it apart as best I could.. and so far I've not found any grease in the bearing that is pressed into the back connecting rod..Don't believe there was ever grease in this one particular spot as I had a heck of a time getting it apart.. once I did get it.. the thru bolt and inside where it goes through was just full of powdered rust..  Many of the other bearing sleeves are also pretty dry of grease however you can see it had grease in it at one time.. just very little I suspect.. and the sleeves are a little on the chewed up side at most of the pivot points that I've taken apart so far.. If I put this back together it'll need all new bearings and sleeves.. and grease, LOL

So far I'm stumped on getting the smaller connecting rod off the end of the motor.. The nut is off ( yes left handed threads if anyone wondered ).. But the thing seems as if it's welded onto the motor shaft.. not wanting to beat on it too much and it's in there where you can't get too it very well to do anything with it.. Now that I have the link arms and the longer connecting rod portion apart and out of the way.. I might see if I can remove the whole motor with the connecting rod attached to see if I can work at it on the workbench..

Now a question.. do you suppose the new China plant makes that larger connecting rod.. Do you suppose they are just buying the parts from a supplier and assembling these in China... hard to believe they'd re-tool to make all these assemblies when they already have them in the Taiwan plant.. suppose the Taiwan plant is buying parts from the China plant? Be interesting to me to see how the new King, Pegas, Jet and other similar saws pan out in a few years.. when people get several hours on them.. I installed a hour meter on mine back in Feb - March.. I've got 60 hours run time on this machine since then.. and after having the hour meters on my Hawk saws etc I have a better idea of run time.. I'd guess this Excalibur has around 160 hours run time..  BTW.. Newest Hawk has 100 hours run time.. not a hiccup or anything.. Been lubed up 6 times. in all it took me about 2 minutes of my time to preform the maintenance over the coarse of those 100 hours.. I've got 5-6 hours time in repairs on this new EX, LOL

I'll post some pictures of this thing in pieces in a while.. I have some on my phone.. but for now I'm going back out to see if I can get the motor off with that connecting rod still on it.. wish me luck with that, LOL 

        

Edited September 19, 2019 by kmmcrafts

[OCtoolguy]

1 hour ago, kmmcrafts said:

Okay folks... finally took this saw apart.. was determined to make it run as everyone claims they do.. I've toyed with the saw quite a lot over the couple years I've owned it.. but it's never been what I considered "working right" 

For those that don't know.. I'll do a little re-cap.. I bought the saw second hand ( though still in the sealed box ) back when the saw was no longer available in the USA for that short time.. The young man I got it from said he won it in a raffle at his job's Christmas party.. he also mentioned to me that his father worked at Home Depot and that his father claimed they was bringing the Excalibur back to HD in the USA.  A few month later we all get the news that they are coming back but made in a new plant in China..

Not sure how the young man got his hands on the China made machine that I have.. I never knew it was a China made machine until one day while doing some organizing I run across the original box that said right on the sticker " Made In China " I did a double take on that.. then right away went to the saw and low and behold the I.D. tag said the same..

From day one I had issues with the upper clamp.. just was sloppy and would troublesome.. I thought it was just me being new to the saw.. though I used a DeWalt for 12 years and it's not that much different to be having such issues.. Buying the Pegas clamps solved most of those issues... Then started in with the self adjusting of the nob at the back of the saw.. was so bad that even doing small fret cutouts I'd have to stop and re-position that knob.. Finally tired of this I took the thing apart and put blue loc-tite on the treads which solved it.. 

The saw has always been a little noisy and kept getting worst over time.. I finally took it apart as best I could.. and so far I've not found any grease in the bearing that is pressed into the back connecting rod..Don't believe there was ever grease in this one particular spot as I had a heck of a time getting it apart.. once I did get it.. the thru bolt and inside where it goes through was just full of powdered rust..  Many of the other bearing sleeves are also pretty dry of grease however you can see it had grease in it at one time.. just very little I suspect.. and the sleeves are a little on the chewed up side at most of the pivot points that I've taken apart so far.. If I put this back together it'll need all new bearings and sleeves.. and grease, LOL

So far I'm stumped on getting the smaller connecting rod off the end of the motor.. The nut is off ( yes left handed threads if anyone wondered ).. But the thing seems as if it's welded onto the motor shaft.. not wanting to beat on it too much and it's in there where you can't get too it very well to do anything with it.. Now that I have the link arms and the longer connecting rod portion apart and out of the way.. I might see if I can remove the whole motor with the connecting rod attached to see if I can work at it on the workbench..

Now a question.. do you suppose the new China plant makes that larger connecting rod.. Do you suppose they are just buying the parts from a supplier and assembling these in China... hard to believe they'd re-tool to make all these assemblies when they already have them in the Twain plant.. suppose the Twain plant is buying parts from the China plant? Be interesting to me to see how the new King, Pegas, Jet and other similar saws pan out in a few years.. when people get several hours on them.. I installed a hour meter on mine back in Feb - March.. I've got 60 hours run time on this machine since then.. and after having the hour meters on my Hawk saws etc I have a better idea of run time.. I'd guess this Excalibur has around 160 hours run time..  BTW.. Newest Hawk has 100 hours run time.. not a hiccup or anything.. Been lubed up 6 times. in all it took me about 2 minutes of my time to preform the maintenance over the coarse of those 100 hours.. I've got 5-6 hours time in repairs on this new EX, LOL

I'll post some pictures of this thing in pieces in a while.. I have some on my phone.. but for now I'm going back out to see if I can get the motor off with that connecting rod still on it.. wish me luck with that, LOL 

        

Kevin, is there room for a small gear puller? Please, don't use a hammer! Also, if I were you, the first thing I'd do is get on the phone with Ray at Seyco and verify whether the parts on all the Ex's are interchangeable. If so, that will at least ease your mind on what happens if you break a piece. And...on my Dewalt, I was able to pop the tiny retaining ring out of that bearing and "push" some synthetic grease into the bearing using a pipe cleaner. It seemed to work. Even with flat spots on the bearing sleeves, with a good greasing, I'll bet there are still many hours of run time on your saw. That will give you time to decide whether to fix it or sell it or????

 

[kmmcrafts]

Well I was able to pull the motor with the connecting rod still on it.. once on the bench was able to pry up with two screw drivers and press off the connecting rod portion.. Now the whole back end of the saw is apart.. The one bigger connecting rod with the rusty screw and bearing.. that thing is locked right up.. with some PB Blaster I was able to get it to spin sort of.. I'm not sure where I'm going to go with it from here.. I really only need this one bearing.. though there are two or three other sleeves and bearings in not so good of shape.. those I believe are the same bearings as the DeWalt had.. and my sons friend whom I've sold the DeWalt too which I gave him the bearings & sleeves with the saw... he still hasn't rebuilt the thing so i may see if he'll bring them by and at least let me use what i need if they are the same.. then I'll buy new ones to replace them back to him.. or I'll just confirm they're the same and order what I need.. Seyco sells the whole assembly for $115 + shipping.. But I have a press and can get my own $10 bearing if I can get this rusty one apart... it's pretty messed up though.. Even if I have to buy the assembly from Seyco the saw is well worth fixing.. especially since I did love the saw once I got things half way working.. Liked it better than my Hawk once dialed in..and to think... the thing never really ran right.. it couldn't have with that dry rusty bearing.. seemed smooth.. just really noisy LOL.. 

Edited September 17, 2019 by kmmcrafts

[kmmcrafts]

Going to add some more photos a little later showing the bad parts. Phone died while working on it but I managed to get the rest of this apart. Pretty sure I can make the needed repairs without buying the whole assembly. Biggest thing is the one bigger sleeve is worn a couple thousands. Actually don’t think it’ll effect it at all so may try new bearings with the old sleeve. First will call Ray to see if he can get me just the bigger sleeve. Think it’s the same sleeve as the DW but not certain yet. 

[OCtoolguy]

Kevin, I always have to wonder about anybody who works on mechanical devices and used a "claw" hammer. Shame!!!

 

[kmmcrafts]

20 minutes ago, octoolguy said:

Kevin, I always have to wonder about anybody who works on mechanical devices and used a "claw" hammer. Shame!!!

 

I think I've done that ONCE... but never again, .. gotta learn the hard way once.. if you do it twice.. you're just stupid.. I read that somewhere.. 

[JimErn]

23 minutes ago, octoolguy said:

Kevin, I always have to wonder about anybody who works on mechanical devices and used a "claw" hammer. Shame!!!

 

Ball peen hammer is better?

[kmmcrafts]

Just now, JimErn said:

Ball peen hammer is better?

More like a rubber mallet.. That's what I use on stuff like this.. though I didn't need to " hammer " at all once on the bench I just lifted up with two screw drivers and once it moved lightly was able to work it off..  

[kmmcrafts]

Okay so this is the larger connecting rod I talked about. The first photo shows it with the pin and end caps in place then I show it taken apart. This thing was rusted about solid in place. I took two vise grip pliers and worked it back and forth along with some pb blaster got it freed up. The pin and caps was also welded together and took a lot of work to get apart. 

The pin really is discolored like it’s worn bad but I really don’t feel much if any wear in it, so I’m thinking I’ll just press in some new bearings grease it up good if I can’t find just the pin. Not going to spend $120 or so dollars if I don’t have to. The bearings likely $6 - 10 each. Two bearings side by side in this piece. If I can get the DeWalt parts back from my sons friend and they’re the same then I’ll likely replace the worn bearings and sleeves while it’s apart. Do a good grease job like I did with my DW and it’ll probably run better than a new one. Amazing how much smoother a saw will run even if it’s new when you take out the cheap grease they use and put it high end synthetic grease. I was amazed at how the old DeWalt ran after putting in a good grease. 

 

By by the way. There used to be a lot of people saying the Ex saws had sealed bearings. That is false for sure now that I took this thing apart. It’s assembly is no different than a DeWalt other than the tilting head and being able to adjust the motor. I wonder if one could make a adjustable motor set up on the DW saws like these have. I like the table on the DW better. Lol

[jerry1939]

Whenever you do put it back together, always remember that a good mechanic has a few parts left over.    

jerry

[kmmcrafts]

29 minutes ago, jerry1939 said:

Whenever you do put it back together, always remember that a good mechanic has a few parts left over.    

jerry

Only a few?  I might wait a couple years.. that way it's more fun figuring out where it all went and what happen to the parts that are missing etc.. That's typically how I've always done it in the past.. LOL

[scrollingforsanity]

I ended up replacing the complete linkage and motor cam om my EX. Seems like everything was under 200.00. I purchased the saw new and it was only about two years old when the motor cam bearing fell apart. Ray at Seyco talked me into changing all the linkage. It ran so much better when I was done. much better than when new. I believe that you can probably find a bearing for the motor cam but the linkage bearings I am not sure about, You are right it is worth fixing. good luck with your project. Keep us posted. Mine had some very thin shims in behind the motor cam bearing. If yours has those make sure they go back in or the motor cam bearing will not stay in the housing.

grizz 

[OCtoolguy]

2 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

I think I've done that ONCE... but never again, .. gotta learn the hard way once.. if you do it twice.. you're just stupid.. I read that somewhere.. 

Remember, I sold tools for 40 years so I notice when the wrong tool is being used. One of the best things I ever did was one time Snap-On had a 4 piece ball peen hammer set on sale and I sniped one for myself. Then I added the tiny little 2 oz. hammer to the set and I have the best set of hammers in Earth. Not cheap even back then.

 

[OCtoolguy]

2 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

Okay so this is the larger connecting rod I talked about. The first photo shows it with the pin and end caps in place then I show it taken apart. This thing was rusted about solid in place. I took two vise grip pliers and worked it back and forth along with some pb blaster got it freed up. The pin and caps was also welded together and took a lot of work to get apart. 

The pin really is discolored like it’s worn bad but I really don’t feel much if any wear in it, so I’m thinking I’ll just press in some new bearings grease it up good if I can’t find just the pin. Not going to spend $120 or so dollars if I don’t have to. The bearings likely $6 - 10 each. Two bearings side by side in this piece. If I can get the DeWalt parts back from my sons friend and they’re the same then I’ll likely replace the worn bearings and sleeves while it’s apart. Do a good grease job like I did with my DW and it’ll probably run better than a new one. Amazing how much smoother a saw will run even if it’s new when you take out the cheap grease they use and put it high end synthetic grease. I was amazed at how the old DeWalt ran after putting in a good grease. 

 

By by the way. There used to be a lot of people saying the Ex saws had sealed bearings. That is false for sure now that I took this thing apart. It’s assembly is no different than a DeWalt other than the tilting head and being able to adjust the motor. I wonder if one could make a adjustable motor set up on the DW saws like these have. I like the table on the DW better. Lol

I think just for the heck of it, since you say there doesn't seem to be any grooves worn in that pin, I'd take some really fine emery cloth and some oil and clean the rust off and polish it. The bearings as you said are probably cheap to replace. 
By the way, did you know that way back in the early years that Black and Decker was contracted to build the Dewalt saws from this design? So, the Dewalts are essentially the same mechanism but everything else is different. 

[kmmcrafts]

Okay, SO... I found my box of old bearings and sleeves that i took out of my old DW the first time I rebuilt that saw.. and the bearings are in fact the same size.. BUT.. the sleeves are not.. well they are the same diameter..but the EX sleeves are longer.. and NO before you ask.... two DW sleeves is too long.. LOL..

SO.. now I'm torn.. on buying the whole assembly or just replacing the bad bearing and using that old sleeve.. The biggest thing that bothers me about just using the old parts is well two things.. 1 being two of the sleeves are kinda chewed up.. the bigger sleeve where the bearing was seized up really isn't bad at all.. must be a hardened sleeve? It's got marks where the rusty bearing road on it but I used my micrometer on it and it's not hardly worn at all.. Not enough to be bothersome or an issue.  Anyway the other issue is the link arms are worn.. on the end where it connects to the front rockers.. Why they are worn.. it seems as the assembly line only put in a thrust shim on one side.. I don't think they originally came that way? My DW had one of those shims on each side.. that back portion of the saw had a shim on each side. so anyway the side without the shim chewed into the link arm.. Buying the whole assembly replaces all this stuff..

[Scrappile]

As they say, replace it now or replace it later.  But you probably will have to replace it, and the saw is already taken apart.

Edited September 18, 2019 by Scrappile

[OzarkSawdust]

5 hours ago, octoolguy said:

Kevin, I always have to wonder about anybody who works on mechanical devices and used a "claw" hammer. Shame!!!

 

Don't force it...just get a bigger hammer! 

[Rockytime]

I just have to say, I don't hear these stories about the Hawks and Hegners which have a much simpler mechanism than most other saws. Obviously these other saws have qualities which make them desirable. I can't say as I have only used an EX for just a few minutes. It was very smooth.

[scrollingforsanity]

If you can bite the bullet and put in all new linkage, you won't regret it.

grizz 

[kmmcrafts]

9 hours ago, Rockytime said:

I just have to say, I don't hear these stories about the Hawks and Hegners which have a much simpler mechanism than most other saws. Obviously these other saws have qualities which make them desirable. I can't say as I have only used an EX for just a few minutes. It was very smooth.

I agree 100% While the design of the EX type saws and the style cutting they do does appeal to me more so than with the Hawk.. The EX will cut faster than the Hawk... However the simple no fuss blade changing of the Hawk and the little to no break downs etc.. Blade changing is faster for me on the Hawk.. I think at the end of the day it's pretty much a tie with the ease of use of the Hawk.. But.. The Hawk does have more vibration at certain speeds.. so there are down falls to both machines..You just choose the battle.. If one wanted to buy a new saw every year as Iggy does.. I think maybe the way to go for a production type shop setting..  

Best of both worlds is having multipal  saws of each style, LOL... I worked that EX hard last week putting 20 hours run time cutting out 200 Christmas ornaments for a custom order.. 

[kmmcrafts]

8 hours ago, scrollingforsanity said:

If you can bite the bullet and put in all new linkage, you won't regret it.

grizz 

That might depend on how much the bearings are.. If i buy the whole assembly I'll be taking it apart anyway to use my GOOD grease in it.. so it's not going to be just a slap it together and run it thing either way... The bearings I need appear to cost me $20 if I order them online.. I'm going to check with my local bearing shop ( Edwards Industrial ) or ( Detroit Bearing ) to see what they have.. I've found that they ( though a little higher priced ) usually can get me higher end made bearings.. Did this with my DW and the saw ran forever before it needed rebuilt again.. 

[Wilson142]

11 hours ago, Scrappile said:

As they say, replace it now or replace it later.  But you probably will have to replace it, and the saw is already taken apart.

That was my 1st thought. I once replaced the clutch in my car but neglected to replace the throwout bearing. 6 weeks later, I had the privilege of tearing it all down again. At Least the bolts weren't frozen on.

[Bill WIlson]

I'm curious about all the rust you've encountered.  That certainly wouldn't seem to be normal.  I presume you aren't cutting outside, so either the previous owner had it in very humid conditions, or perhaps it even goes back further.  Stuff that sits around shipping ports for a long time can tend to develop rust in places that you might not notice until you open it up.

[Rolf]

Interesting thread! As far as rust getting into things, all it takes is an overnight cooling and high humidity heat the next day for a bit of condensation. Or a high humidity  summer basement like I have.  My electric bill for 2 months this summer was almost $600. between AC and 24 hrs a day dehumidifier in the basement.

You pay one way or the other.

[kmmcrafts]

11 minutes ago, Bill WIlson said:

I'm curious about all the rust you've encountered.  That certainly wouldn't seem to be normal.  I presume you aren't cutting outside, so either the previous owner had it in very humid conditions, or perhaps it even goes back further.  Stuff that sits around shipping ports for a long time can tend to develop rust in places that you might not notice until you open it up.

I believe the rust is from being assembled with no grease whatsoever.. Bare steel will rust pretty quick no matter how wet / dry the location is.. There was only this one bearing that had rust.. the rest had grease.. though getting pretty dried out there was grease in the others.. no sign of grease at all in the one that had rust.. The one that had rust was also inside the saw circled it red in this diagram from Seyco..

The saw was brand new when i got it.. in fact it couldn't have been sitting around too long because I got this saw ( china made version ) before they even released these for sale in the USA.. I'm not sure how the fella I got it from got his hands on it.. He is the one that told me that EX was bringing back the saws soon to Home Depot.. as his father is a big wig there I guess.. For all I know maybe he stole it.. I gave $340 for it.. He told me he won it in a raffle from his workplace.. All I know is.. I got a China made saw before they were sold in stores in the USA..  I've had the saw two years this October i think.. Maybe it was three years now I'd have to look at my paperwork to be sure..

As Rolf stated.. temp changes can rust stuff fairly quick.. In the spring thaw here in Michigan my shop gets quite a lot of condensation.. one reason I'm looking hard at heating the shop to help dry it out.. But this condensation is only a couple days of pretty bad... mostly the shop floor sweating.. If grease was present in the bearing it shouldn't have been an issue.. This year was worst than any other years I been here.. I'll be at a minimum running a dehumidifier this year.. Can't have that moisture around my equipment.. Never been this way in the past 50 years of living in this house.. that i remember of anyway, LOL