Saw brands

[OzarkSawdust]

While I was in Kansas City yesterday I stopped by Woodcraft. They had a King 16" saw with metal stand and locking wheels for $630. 

Is the King, Excalibur, Excelsior and Pegas the same saw? 

If I get a better saw I want tilting head, tension on front, lifting arm looks good 

 

 

Edited September 26, 2019 by OzarkSawdust

[Denny Knappen]

Not sure if they are the same, but be sure it is not made in China.  I heard major concerns.

[OzarkSawdust]

1 hour ago, Denny Knappen said:

Not sure if they are the same, but be sure it is not made in China.  I heard major concerns.

The one I saw in the store did say "Made In Taiwan" same thing right. Where else would they be made?

[Denny Knappen]

11 minutes ago, OzarkSawdust said:

The one I saw in the store did say "Made In Taiwan" same thing right. Where else would they be made?

Correct.  All seem to be made in the far east.  "Made in Taiwan" seem to be better quality.  

[kmmcrafts]

My understanding is that ALL of these saws are made in Taiwan with the exception of the Excalibur model EX-21 which is made in China.. The EX-16 still made in Taiwan.. Not sure why it's only the 21" saw.. I have one of the China made EX-21.. While I finally have most the issues worked out.. and the only biggest issue was the knob at the back of the saw liked to adjust itself.. Blue loc-tite took care of that.. Also the bearings had very little grease.. BUT, I guess that is the case with most all these saws these days.. according to Ray at Seyco.. it's hit or miss with these saws with the bearings getting grease good from the manufacture.. Think if I was to buy any of these type saws new.. I might consider taking it apart while still new and add my own grease to it.. 

I haven't heard a lot of complaints on the new Pegas saw yet... but they are still quite new.. My China made Excalibur probably made it 150 - 200 hours run time before having bearing issues.. But that's probably around 2 years or so work for the hobbyist..   

[rustynail]

 The Pegas and the Seyco seam to get the best reviews in this kind of tilting head saws.

Edited September 26, 2019 by rustynail

[OzarkSawdust]

I was watching a video by Steve Good on the Bear Woods site. He goes over a Pegas saw...I think before they started US shipments. All those look like clones! 

He also talked about Pegas chuck head replacements on DeWalt, Jet, Excalibur, King, etc. Have any of you don that? Like it? on what saw?

When I was telling my wife about the King I saw yesterday she told me I should do it this fall before we go south!! So I may upgrade 6-8 months earlier than I thought! 

[OCtoolguy]

58 minutes ago, OzarkSawdust said:

I was watching a video by Steve Good on the Bear Woods site. He goes over a Pegas saw...I think before they started US shipments. All those look like clones! 

He also talked about Pegas chuck head replacements on DeWalt, Jet, Excalibur, King, etc. Have any of you don that? Like it? on what saw?

When I was telling my wife about the King I saw yesterday she told me I should do it this fall before we go south!! So I may upgrade 6-8 months earlier than I thought! 

I did the upgrade to my EX21. My saw was made in Canada prior to them being made in China/Taiwan. I think it was a very good upgrade. Probably not necessary but it did seem to take a bit of the vibration out of my saw. Not that it had that much. But, with that said, I was going to do the same upgrade to my Dewalt but then I sold it when I bought my Hawk. If it were up to me, it's one of the first things I'd do to a saw that accommodates the Pegas clamps. If you are truly thinking about that type of saw, save some money and just buy the Pegas saw up front. It has the $100 clamps on it. I have no personal experience other than the clamps and the blades but my thoughts are that they are a top-notch company and might just have a bit better quality control over their saws at the factory in Taiwan. Just my opinion. For what it's worth.

 

[jerrye]

12 hours ago, OzarkSawdust said:

He also talked about Pegas chuck head replacements on DeWalt, Jet, Excalibur, King, etc. Have any of you don that? Like it? on what saw?

Jet 22. Made a good saw great. Fixes all the issues with the factory clamps and allows top feeding, which I am now learning. For my Jet, well worth the cost to upgrade.

[kmmcrafts]

The blade chucks are very much an upgrade from the stock EX clamps.. Much more user friendly... 

I agree with Ray... If you're looking to buy this type of saw.. Just go with the Pegas saw.. But also be aware that these saws ( at least were ) back ordered as they sold many more than they expected to.. If I ever buy another new saw again.. That would be my choice.. second choice would probably be the seyco.

If I remember correctly though you are planning to lug the saw around with you as you travel? I'v thought about buying a Excalibur EX-16 just to take along camping with us since it's smaller and wouldn't take up a large amount of space, and slightly lighter to lug around.. In this case in my experience I'd upgrade those clamps and go with the smaller saw..  The Pegas isn't much bigger but when living in tight spaces.. every little bit helps..Also recommend getting blade storage tubes as the oval slots on the base of the saw is for storage tubes to eep your blades right with you at the saw..  I had storage tubes and a holder case for them but they was too large to fit the holes in the EX base.. so I ordered these here.. fit perfect and this is so nice to have the blades right there on the saw.. I wish other saw brands would have something similar..

https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Pack-16-x-150-mm-Clear-Plastic-Test-Tubes-with-Blue-Caps-6-Inch/381314545375?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649    

[JimErn]

I guess I am weird, well we knew that, but the only use I have found that I like for those test tubes, is to hold different wood saw dust that I use for filler.

I get the blades in that plastic pouch, cut the top off, unwrap them and put them back, then I just get one out as needed.  no labeling, no tops to drop, works well for me.

[kmmcrafts]

@JimErn I did that for years.. and while it works well and the tubes really aren't "needed".. Since I have multipal saws.. and the packages do only last so long.. It's nice to have a package / tube of your blades at each saw.. I keep between 3 and 6 doz. blades in the tubes.. when I refill  a tube and use the last of them in the package.. that's when its time to place my order for more blades... knowing that I have plenty of blades between each saw in case the blades end up being back ordered etc.. It's just my preference and method that I use to help me keep track of inventory.. Back before I had the tubes.. the package was always on the other saw across the shop.. 

[OzarkSawdust]

3 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

The blade chucks are very much an upgrade from the stock EX clamps.. Much more user friendly... 

I agree with Ray... If you're looking to buy this type of saw.. Just go with the Pegas saw.. But also be aware that these saws ( at least were ) back ordered as they sold many more than they expected to.. If I ever buy another new saw again.. That would be my choice.. second choice would probably be the seyco.

If I remember correctly though you are planning to lug the saw around with you as you travel? I'v thought about buying a Excalibur EX-16 just to take along camping with us since it's smaller and wouldn't take up a large amount of space, and slightly lighter to lug around.. In this case in my experience I'd upgrade those clamps and go with the smaller saw..  The Pegas isn't much bigger but when living in tight spaces.. every little bit helps..Also recommend getting blade storage tubes as the oval slots on the base of the saw is for storage tubes to eep your blades right with you at the saw..  I had storage tubes and a holder case for them but they was too large to fit the holes in the EX base.. so I ordered these here.. fit perfect and this is so nice to have the blades right there on the saw.. I wish other saw brands would have something similar..

https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Pack-16-x-150-mm-Clear-Plastic-Test-Tubes-with-Blue-Caps-6-Inch/381314545375?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649    

Thanks Kevin! I've thought of getting tubes...and was going to make a holder for some. But I'll get these so they'll be the right size to put on the saw if the one I get has a holder.

Speaking of size...of saw...what kind of things would you HAVE TO HAVE a 21" or larger that you can't do on a 16"? I get it there is a 5" larger throat, but I can't think of anything I would NEED to do that a 16" couldn't handle. I'm thinking most work will be 12"x12" or smaller, possibly a little larger. I would like to buy one good saw and not have to buy another...yea right this coming from a man that has 30 - 40 fishing poles. 

[kmmcrafts]

I guess it depends on what you plan to make and the space limitations of your shop etc.. I have two Hawk 26" saws and a 20" one then the Excalibur 21"  Most things I make could be done on a 16".. there are a couple of projects that I've needed the 20".. Don't think I've ever used the full capacity of the 26" though.. but it's easier to have it if a project comes along that would one would need it for..  The thing that comes to mind that I make that'd need the 20" throat is the Guitar wall clock.. Believe this is 18" tall if I remember correctly..  I think every thing else could be done on the 16"..

If the blade tubes fit into the saw base as snug as they do mine.. It'd make for easier packing maybe.. then your stuff is with your saw.. when traveling from one campground to another you always gotta pack things away... this way everything is right with the saw.. That was my thinking anyway.. But... you could just tape the blade packs to the saw too I suppose..

[OzarkSawdust]

42 minutes ago, kmmcrafts said:

I guess it depends on what you plan to make and the space limitations of your shop etc.. I have two Hawk 26" saws and a 20" one then the Excalibur 21"  Most things I make could be done on a 16".. there are a couple of projects that I've needed the 20".. Don't think I've ever used the full capacity of the 26" though.. but it's easier to have it if a project comes along that would one would need it for..  The thing that comes to mind that I make that'd need the 20" throat is the Guitar wall clock.. Believe this is 18" tall if I remember correctly..  I think every thing else could be done on the 16"..

If the blade tubes fit into the saw base as snug as they do mine.. It'd make for easier packing maybe.. then your stuff is with your saw.. when traveling from one campground to another you always gotta pack things away... this way everything is right with the saw.. That was my thinking anyway.. But... you could just tape the blade packs to the saw too I suppose..

Thanks! I think a 16" is all I'll need...at least for a while. We'll head for the Mexican border in Mission TX, about a mile from where our house was. I probably won't unpack it till we get there. But being in one spot for 3 months I thought it would give me a good opportunity to practice and sell stuff at the many flea markets all over the Rio Grande Valley. Also when we go other places I'll take it and cut if we are going to be in one spot a couple of weeks.

[Jim McDonald]

I use the test tubes for blade storage and have for years.  Probably saved a lot of tears if I dropped the envelope through the years.

[OzarkSawdust]

OK...How about King 16" vs DeWalt DW788? I know the head tilts in the King and the table tilts on the 788. And the King is basically King/Excalibur/Excelsior, probably Pegas too. I have not seen a Pegas 16" on line for sale just the 21" 

Otherwise what are the differences ?

Which would be a better saw from me beginning through the next 2-3 years of experience?

[OCtoolguy]

1 hour ago, OzarkSawdust said:

OK...How about King 16" vs DeWalt DW788? I know the head tilts in the King and the table tilts on the 788. And the King is basically King/Excalibur/Excelsior, probably Pegas too. I have not seen a Pegas 16" on line for sale just the 21" 

Otherwise what are the differences ?

Which would be a better saw from me beginning through the next 2-3 years of experience?

The Dewalt is larger than the EX21 or Pegas. With that said, if you are looking to stay small I'd probably go with either the EX16 or keep your eyes open for a used Hegner 14. They seem to be plentiful and make great travel saws. The Dewalt is quite heavy. Not small in any way. I've been a full-time RVer and after being in your shoes, so to speak, I know how space and weight figure into your travels. I think the 16" EX would be my choice.

 

[kmmcrafts]

There is more difference than just the tilting head.. The King, Ex etc saws you can also loosen the bolts on the motor and spin the motor to give the saw a less or more aggressive cut.. most folks turn it to a less aggressive which makes those sharp turns easier to do.. DeWalts are pretty aggressive saws.. great for cutting thicker stock..

I've had a DeWalt that I used for 12 years before getting the Hawks and the EX.. DeWalt is a good saw but the EX, King type saws are really nice with the fact you can tune the aggressiveness and the tilting head rather than the table is a plus..

I'd go with the King / EX-16 before a DeWalt especially considering the space for traveling etc.. but even without dealing with the space.. the saws features out weigh the throat size for me.. as I said.. not many projects require that large of saw.. and I could honestly do without making those things that require a larger saw.. Smaller projects are better for me due to I ship everything I sell and so makes shipping easier as well as the space required to store larger inventory pieces vrs small inventory items.. Just my 2 cents    

[OzarkSawdust]

You're right Ray, there's only so much room in a 5th wheel and truck. And me and the wife and the 20 lb. cat compete for every inch of it...lol.

[OzarkSawdust]

26 minutes ago, kmmcrafts said:

There is more difference than just the tilting head.. The King, Ex etc saws you can also loosen the bolts on the motor and spin the motor to give the saw a less or more aggressive cut.. most folks turn it to a less aggressive which makes those sharp turns easier to do.. DeWalts are pretty aggressive saws.. great for cutting thicker stock..

I've had a DeWalt that I used for 12 years before getting the Hawks and the EX.. DeWalt is a good saw but the EX, King type saws are really nice with the fact you can tune the aggressiveness and the tilting head rather than the table is a plus..

I'd go with the King / EX-16 before a DeWalt especially considering the space for traveling etc.. but even without dealing with the space.. the saws features out weigh the throat size for me.. as I said.. not many projects require that large of saw.. and I could honestly do without making those things that require a larger saw.. Smaller projects are better for me due to I ship everything I sell and so makes shipping easier as well as the space required to store larger inventory pieces vrs small inventory items.. Just my 2 cents    

Cool! I was not aware you could tune the aggressiveness of the cut! Sounds great for a newbie, I can tune it down till I get more experience. I think the King/EX 16" checks all the boxes of features I may need or use, in the next 2-3 years at least. A tensioner on the front, tool less blade changes, lifting arm for easier changing holes during inside cuts, tilting head (probably easier to learn inlay work as your piece will stay flat on the table), built-in dust vacuum ( I saw a video that mentioned that design helps hold piece to table, may not use vacuum all the time but it might be helpful), can add the Pegas blade chuck if I want to. And the one on sale at Woodcraft comes with a stand!

Other than maybe a foot switch, can anyone think of anything I'm missing...good or bad? I just don't want to make a stupid mistake with this amount of cash...like miss a major feature I need or should have because I'm too new to know about it. There's an unbelievable amount of knowledge and experience here in the village, and I'm so glad and grateful to have found you folks! 

[OCtoolguy]

44 minutes ago, OzarkSawdust said:

You're right Ray, there's only so much room in a 5th wheel and truck. And me and the wife and the 20 lb. cat compete for every inch of it...lol.

We had a 36 ft. Hitchhiker and a 2001 Chev CC dually. We traveled with 3 cats. I had to find a new hobby while we were out on the road and it became woodcarving. That was a passion for a good while until I found scrolling. I haven't carved in over a year now. But, I'll get back to it at some point. I envy you. We miss our travels so much but just can't afford to have a home base and a rig.

 

[OCtoolguy]

4 minutes ago, OzarkSawdust said:

Cool! I was not aware you could tune the aggressiveness of the cut! Sounds great for a newbie, I can tune it down till I get more experience. I think the King/EX 16" checks all the boxes of features I may need or use, in the next 2-3 years at least. A tensioner on the front, tool less blade changes, lifting arm for easier changing holes during inside cuts, tilting head (probably easier to learn inlay work as your piece will stay flat on the table), built-in dust vacuum ( I saw a video that mentioned that design helps hold piece to table, may not use vacuum all the time but it might be helpful), can add the Pegas blade chuck if I want to. And the one on sale at Woodcraft comes with a stand!

Other than maybe a foot switch, can anyone think of anything I'm missing...good or bad? I just don't want to make a stupid mistake with this amount of cash...like miss a major feature I need or should have because I'm too new to know about it. There's an unbelievable amount of knowledge and experience here in the village, and I'm so glad and grateful to have found you folks! 

Don't let that dust collection feature fool you. I have heard that it is so concentrated that it literally sucks the workpiece to the table and makes it unmoveable. Lots of folks have removed it and made their own design for vacuum hookup. After having my EX I can tell you that you won't be sorry you chose the EX. On another note, you mentioned inlay work. If you get interested in doing inlay or marquetry, there is a great book that you will want to get hold of. It's name is "The Art of Marquetry" by Craig Vandall Stevens. It explains a lot. Also, Dave Monk did a great video on inlay that you will want to watch a few times. 

 

[kmmcrafts]

I might be one of the few that have used the dust port and actually like it other than the noise of the shop vac..  It does suck the board down especially when you first start cutting ( fretwork ) but once you get a few holes cutout so some air can flow it gets better.. I will say also.. It helps a whole lot to keep the saw table waxed real well.. doing that regularly makes it much easier.. 

I guess I thought all the Excalibur's came with a foot switch? If not.. Harbor Freight has them fairly cheap and I used one from them for 12 years on my Dewalt without issues... I couldn't be without a foot switch.. I don't know how I did it before I got one.. LOL 

 

[OzarkSawdust]

51 minutes ago, octoolguy said:

We had a 36 ft. Hitchhiker and a 2001 Chev CC dually. We traveled with 3 cats. I had to find a new hobby while we were out on the road and it became woodcarving. That was a passion for a good while until I found scrolling. I haven't carved in over a year now. But, I'll get back to it at some point. I envy you. We miss our travels so much but just can't afford to have a home base and a rig.

 

We have a 35 ft. Keystone Sprinter 5th wheel now. We've made the rounds though. In the 22 yrs we've been together we've had 2 - 5th wheels, 3 - travel trailers, 2 - pickup campers, 1 - class A gas motorhome, 1 - class A diesel pusher motorhome, and a popup camper we pulled with 2 different Goldwing motorcycles and a VW powered trike!