Vacuum Noise Levels

[Bpardue]

I have a whole shop dust collection system I put in a few years ago. Dust collector is in an outside closet and hard piped through the wall, across the ceiling & down to my tools. I a an air filtration unit hanging in the shop that picks up any fine dust that the collector does not pick up.

[Matt B]

The Fein Turbo II is $261.00 on Amazon.  At 66 dB, it is the best solution for me right now.  Checking camelcamelcamel, this is the best price in the last five years. 

Edited October 20, 2019 by Matt B

[rash_powder]

I have a Jet 1100cfm dust collector in the garage, but unfortunately run my scroll saw in the basement of the house.  I have pondered how to run a duct into the house, but haven’t come up with a satisfactory method.  So I built a dust collecor for my scroll saw.

i believe I saw the pic here, so I cannot take credit for the parts that attach to the saw.  It is just 3/4” pvc and loc line flexible pipe.

The collector portion is a 1/2 gallon jar that I made an adapter flange on the large for a dust deputy.  I used 1-1/2” pvc caps with *I think* 1-1/2” holes drilled through them to adapt the dust deputy to 1-1/4” vac hose.  The vac is a 3 stage Amtek Lamb I got from the local surplus center.  I do not plug this into 120VAC; instead I use a motor controller from a treadmill which outputs 0-90VDC.  The motor runs much quieter on DC, and the variable output means I can dial suction in to what I want.  I have found 30V provides ample suction and I cannot hear the vac motor over my Hegner.  A HEPA filter could easily be fitted over the exhaust if I wanted.  It works very, very well.  I just need to make a small cart or board to mount it all too.

i unfortunately do not have pics of it on my phone, but can post some if people wish to see it.

[OCtoolguy]

On 11/3/2019 at 1:27 PM, rash_powder said:

I have a Jet 1100cfm dust collector in the garage, but unfortunately run my scroll saw in the basement of the house.  I have pondered how to run a duct into the house, but haven’t come up with a satisfactory method.  So I built a dust collecor for my scroll saw.

i believe I saw the pic here, so I cannot take credit for the parts that attach to the saw.  It is just 3/4” pvc and loc line flexible pipe.

The collector portion is a 1/2 gallon jar that I made an adapter flange on the large for a dust deputy.  I used 1-1/2” pvc caps with *I think* 1-1/2” holes drilled through them to adapt the dust deputy to 1-1/4” vac hose.  The vac is a 3 stage Amtek Lamb I got from the local surplus center.  I do not plug this into 120VAC; instead I use a motor controller from a treadmill which outputs 0-90VDC.  The motor runs much quieter on DC, and the variable output means I can dial suction in to what I want.  I have found 30V provides ample suction and I cannot hear the vac motor over my Hegner.  A HEPA filter could easily be fitted over the exhaust if I wanted.  It works very, very well.  I just need to make a small cart or board to mount it all too.

i unfortunately do not have pics of it on my phone, but can post some if people wish to see it.

I'd love to see what you have come up with. Dust collection, for me, has become somewhat of a secondary hobby for me. I'm always looking for ways to improve on my situation because I have such a small shop and anything that I can do to "miniaturize" it is a good thing. Thanks in advance. I just did a google search on "amtek lamb" and found a bazillion pictures of different examples. I'm not sure what I am looking at. Maybe you could explain what it is, how it works, and how you knew to buy it when you came across it. Thanks again.

 

 

Edited November 5, 2019 by octoolguy

[Rockytime]

I would also love to see photos of your set up!

[rustynail]

You can buy after market HPA filters for the Fein for about $50.00 from filter company's. and if you have a loud shop vac you can build a sound cabinet out of scrap materials for not much money . Just a couple of other options  to consider.  I have a Fein and like it . I also have a few shop vac's that I have inherited over the years that I plan on building sound cabinets for and use them as I recently had to down size into a basement. 

 

[Rolf]

I have the Festool MIDI, with the HEPA filter. I use it for my RO sander and on my Scroll saws.  I cut a lot of baltic birch and the smell of, I think adhesive, really bothers me. I always used a half mask when scrolling. With the Festool I get no smell or dust. 

But a heads up don't expect this vacuum to do your general shop cleanup. It is great for small bits and pieces and of course fine dust. Larger pieces get stuck in the hose.  When I clean up chips and heavier debris i.e. lathe work I connect a hose to my central dust collector or the screaming meamy Shop Vac. 

Since my shop is in the basement I also installed a Jet 1100 Vortec with pleated filter in a far corner and ran 4" PVC duct work along the ceiling with drops and gates at each machine. I use a remote to control it. My longest run is about 30ft.  

[OCtoolguy]

6 hours ago, rustynail said:

You can buy after market HPA filters for the Fein for about $50.00 from filter company's. and if you have a loud shop vac you can build a sound cabinet out of scrap materials for not much money . Just a couple of other options  to consider.  I have a Fein and like it . I also have a few shop vac's that I have inherited over the years that I plan on building sound cabinets for and use them as I recently had to down size into a basement. 

 

I like your idea but one thing comes to mind. If it is "too" enclosed, it will hold the heat in and not allow the vac to "breathe". It is recycling it's own air and it will continue to build up heat unless you have some sort of vent system. 

 

[rustynail]

4 hours ago, octoolguy said:

I like your idea but one thing comes to mind. If it is "too" enclosed, it will hold the heat in and not allow the vac to "breathe". It is recycling it's own air and it will continue to build up heat unless you have some sort of vent system. 

 

 The sound boxes do have vents. They do a baffle system as seen in the video and seem to work from comments I have read, but I am not sure how long they are running the vacuums as most state here they are running them for long periods of time? 

[rash_powder]

Sorry for the delay in getting these pictures up; i've been busy with the wife and kids and work and parents and and and and and.........

I am also going to apologize for the big post and all the pictures but its the only way I could think to show it all easily.  Also, please don't judge my highly-packed work/gun/hunting closet.  Its winter in North Dakota and my garage is not heated.  Please please note that this is a whole lot of redneck engineering and in need of some refinement yet, but it works soooo.......

So first is the vac motor.  It is an Ametek Lamb model 116565-29.  It is a 120 VAC whole-home 3 stage vacuum motor.  At 120 VAC this thing sucks HARD and makes a considerable noise, but it is not in an enclosure of any sort.  I got this motor at a local surplus store for about $15.  The important features on it are 3 vac impellers for better suction and it is what is known as a universal motor - it can run on AC or DC voltage.

 

This motor is connected to an Oneida Dust Deputy mounted to a 1/2 gallon glass jar.  I made the adapter flange on my wood lathe.  The vac hose connects to the motor rather unsatisfactorily at the moment.  I cut a piece of 1 1/2" pvc pipe a couple inches long, split it lengthwise, pried it open and pushed it on the vacuum's suction port.  This allowed me to literally mash the 1 1/4" (I think, it could be 1 1/2") vac hose into it and keep it in place.  You can just see this in the bottom of the pic that I am holding the vac motor in.  The hoses don't fit the Dust Deputy natively, so I had to make adapters.  This took a while to figure out but I found 1 1/2" pvc pipe caps fit perfectly on the in and out ports.  I drilled holes through the caps with a 1 1/2" forstner bit and the vac hose fits VERY snuggly into the cap.  With the hole centered there is plenty of clearance to attach to the Dust Deputy or a piece of 1 1/2" pvc pipe to make a dust wand or something.  

 

 

 

[rash_powder]

I decided to break it up into several posts to be sure I don't hit a pic cap or size limit or something.  

So next I will show my saw and how that all is working.  

I have 2 packs of Loc Line 3/4" flex pipe attached to a 3/4" pvc assembly to allow the suction to be applied directly where I want it.  Its pretty basic; I'm sure you have seen this sort of thing before as I easily found pictures of other peoples assemblies to follow.  At some point this is going to get rebuilt as I don't particularly like it right now but that will be a later task when I build a new stand or overhaul the one it is currently on.  

 

 

 

[rash_powder]

So what is left now is the controller.  As I said earlier the Ametek Lamb vac motor is universal, so I chose to run it on DC as it is far easier to control a DC motor's speed than it is to controll an AC motor's speed.  This is also not the only way to do this.  I can post links to YouTube vids of the other way if the controller I used is too difficult to find or source.  

My controller came from a treadmill.  The specific type or model of controller is an MC-60.  Best I can tell it is not manufacturer specific, which leads me to believe someone else builds them for the treadmill people.  Regardless, they are on Ebay and can be found else where too.  

The 120 VAC inputs are clearly marked, as are the DC motor and potentiometer connections.  Since I harvested my controller at the local dump, I kept the AC power cord but had to put crimp connectors on as the cord was cut free.  I used a section of another power cord, again from the dump, with crimps again to connect the controller to the vac motor.  I harvested the potentiometer from our scrap pile at work, I think its 0 - 5000 ohms.  A 0 - 10000 ohms would probably work better as it would give finer speed control.  The controller outputs 0 VDC to 90 VDC; I have found that about 30 VDC is perfect.  Too much faster and the vac actually sucks the dust up from inside the Dust Deputy and then you get a cloud.  Its quite quiet at the lower voltages also.  Outside of the closet, at 30 VDC, its no louder than my Hegner saw.  

Draw backs to this are its a lot of messy wiring and the motor controller, as a safety feature from its treadmill days, has to have the potentiometer returned to zero speed every time it is turned off and back on.  I guess they didn't want people flying off the treadmill.

 

 

Just an aside, I have read people speaking of small work spaces and shops.  Mine is a closet.  Literally as you probably saw.  It all fits and works so hopefully one day the kids move on and I will get a bigger inside room.  But thats one day and a ways off.  

[rash_powder]

It was asked how I knew what to use and how to use it and such.  

I am a tinkerer.  All this came from YouTube vids on salvaging useful materials from the rubbish.  We have a spring cleanup here and it is quite common to see people 'curb shopping' before the city comes along to pick it up.  The town I live in has a public dump and you can leave with more than you brought if you like.  Lack of money comes into this all too.  I have a prototype stand-alone dust collector that I made, and it is what started this all.  

This unit would benefit from an exhaust filter to catch anything that goes through the system.  With a proper vac speed, I don't think it is much but really can't say.  I do know full power will actually draw dust out of the jar.  It also needs to be mounted to a board or something to keep it all from tipping, a proper box for the controller, a potentiometer with a knob, and a host of other things.  More 'shopping' is obviously required, as is more 'engineering' if you wish to call it that.

Hopefully this helps you guys, and gets some of you started on making similar units.  Message me or post here and I will try to help with what I can.  

[Rockytime]

I see you live in Larimore. I work for the Larimore Pioneer Press as a very young man in the late 50's. I spent seven years with the Grand Forks Herald before moving to Denver. I keep track of Grand Fork's temperature. Brrrrrrrrrr! You system looks interesting. Thanks for posting.

[OCtoolguy]

When searching on youtube for the videos you spoke of, what is the search criteria? I'm going to give it a try but if I fail, I thought maybe you could point the way. Thanks for the great tutorial/pictorial. Now, I have something else to do with my short time left on Earth.

 

[OCtoolguy]

@rash-powder,  you really stole that motor if you truly got it for $15. I have been searching/researching them today and the cheapest one I found was still $100 plus shipping. And I can't recall the last time I saw a "surplus" store anywhere near where I Iive. There used to be many but not anymore. They all had a ton of military stuff but I guess that stuff doesn't come home anymore either. 

[rash_powder]

Jeremy Fielding knows more about electric motors than anyone likely should.  His YouTube channel is Jeremy Fielding.  He explains things in pretty basic terms which is great.  

For a low-budget motor controller, search YouTube for treadmill motor controller.  The below vid is pretty good. 

 

If you aren't up to doing all this work the Seyco vac system was some of my inspiration.  The vac they use looks an AWFUL lot like a Metrovac.  They are wicked pricey new, but can be gotten on ebay for about $50.  I'm not sure about speed control with them, but one of these takes care of a vac motor and post cyclone filter.  

Regarding my motor, yes, I did get an awesome deal on it.  The downside was the vac port was a little loose so it would shreak at high speeds unless something was touching it and the power wires were cut VERY short.  ANY of their vac motors should work, as long as it is a universal type motor.  I found an old metal Milwaukee shop vac at the dump and harvested the vac motor from that.  Its not a 3 stage unit, only a single, but it will work.  It just can't suck as hard as a 3 stage.  

You could also do something similar to Mathias Wandell did and build everything and it runs at a single speed.  His units seem effective, somewhere in his channel are flow tests and such.  

 

 

Google and YouTube DIY dust collector, DIY dust collection, DIY mini dust collector.  Spend a lot of time reading and learning.  For me, everything of this sort is on an open timeline so I can take my time 'curb shopping' for parts.  My Dad helps too!  Keep an eye open at Thriftstores, garage sales, Craigslist, Facebook Marketplace, any place junk shows up.  There is an extraordinary amount of good stuff to be had if you know what to look for.  

Hopefully this gets the ball rolling for you.  Let me know if you or anyone else should need help.  I will do what I can to assist.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[rash_powder]

On 11/14/2019 at 8:08 PM, Rockytime said:

I see you live in Larimore. I work for the Larimore Pioneer Press as a very young man in the late 50's. I spent seven years with the Grand Forks Herald before moving to Denver. I keep track of Grand Fork's temperature. Brrrrrrrrrr! You system looks interesting. Thanks for posting.

The Larimore Pioneer Press is no longer around - I think.  The local paper is now printed in Park River and is the Larimore Leader/Exponent.  There isn't really too much left here, but Grand Forks is close, and Larimore is definitely NOT Grand Forks.  I like it that way.  

[Rockytime]

50 minutes ago, rash_powder said:

The Larimore Pioneer Press is no longer around - I think.  The local paper is now printed in Park River and is the Larimore Leader/Exponent.  There isn't really too much left here, but Grand Forks is close, and Larimore is definitely NOT Grand Forks.  I like it that way.  

Thank you for the up date. I spent three years in Larimore. I'm sure much has changed. I spent seven years with the Grand Forks Herald. I moved due to job conditions but loved the little city. We started our family there.

[rash_powder]

This is a 230VAC motor, but it is a 3 stage and a universal type motor.  I'm not sure the shipping charges from this shop, but its not a horrible price.  

 

https://www.surpluscenter.com/Air-Pneumatics/Air-Compressors-Vacuum-Pumps/Vacuum-Motors/230-Volt-AC-Ametek-3-Stage-Vacuum-Blower-16-1552.axd

[Rolf]

Getting back to the original question for a moment regarding VAC noise. Using a Radio Shack DB meter I measured the noise from my Festool MIDI VAC running at low speed while extracting the dust from my SS. It runs at about 66 Peak. Not too bad. I will measure my shop VAC just for giggles.

[rash_powder]

I measured sound levels last night just so everyone could get an idea of how loud my system is.  With the vac motor behind my saw, my numbers are, according to my iPhone approximately where my head would be while cutting

nothing running is 46dB

just the vac is 65dB

just my Hegner multimax 22v atfull speed is 72dB

all running together is 72dB

The app I used is called dB meter.  Vac had a lot of room to speed up yet as well.

I generally try to where ear plugs while cutting.  If my room was bigger then maybe not.

[OCtoolguy]

The bottom line here is, unless you isolate your vac in a off-site location, there is no free lunch. I have a quiet saw (EX21) and a Fein vac. One of the early ones. My shop is 9 x 13. Enclosed, tiny. I still hear a lot of vac noise but I think it's primarily coming from the two suction points right at the saw. I don't know how to quiet them down unless I go to a larger diameter piping with larger nozzles. I have decent hearing but still wear hearing aids. I don't want to wear muffs. So, I will live with what I have until something better comes along. I may do some sort of enclosure for my vac/DD system but I will still have to deal with the nozzle noise. Like I said, no free lunch.