Pegas 21" Scroll Saw or Seyco ST-21 Swing Tilt Scroll Saw/ Which one?

[OCtoolguy]

2 hours ago, Bill WIlson said:

I had a DeWalt for several years.  I sold it and bought an EX-21 a few years ago.  I can't say I even noticed the shorter distance between the front of the table and the blade.  I knew it was like that, of course, but it has not been a hinderance at all, to me.  Admittedly, I am strictly a hobbiest user and like to make a variety of things, but I rarely am swinging large sheets of material around on the saw.  Perhaps if I were, I would think differently.

I really like the rack & pinion angle adjustment on the EX.  It's so much easier to use than my DeWalt was. 

Each of us have characteristics that we prefer in a saw.  Depending on what you do, how you work and what you've become accustomed to, your preferences will be different or take a different priority.  Now let's talk about blades....

Bill, I have to agree completely. I had a Dewalt prior to the EX and I never gave it a thought either. I don't do sign or plaque work and those large size portraits are for others to cut. Me, I just do small stuff and will never feel the need to have a larger table.

[Dave Monk]

On 10/23/2019 at 2:03 PM, Scrappile said:

Quote from description of the the Pegas at Bear Woods
"A. The head can be tilted by 45° to left or right. The blade tilts rather than the table to achieve:"

@Dave Monk what say you, you have one.

I got a Pegas last March and really like it. Still have my Hegner. 

[rustynail]

Thanks for all the replies, at this point I am liking the Pegas the best as I feel I can get around the table size with just a add on table or try to re-drill and bring it forward.  Dave , have you ever seen or used the Seyco in person and or what made you go with the Pegas? 

 

[kmmcrafts]

32 minutes ago, rustynail said:

Thanks for all the replies, at this point I am liking the Pegas the best as I feel I can get around the table size with just a add on table or try to re-drill and bring it forward.  Dave , have you ever seen or used the Seyco in person and or what made you go with the Pegas? 

 

I just realized you're from Michigan too.. I just seen this listing tonight.. Not sure what the Seyco sells for new, but I've been eyeing the dust collector for a while now.. they run $160 if I remember correctly... Anyway... seems like a decent deal to me if it's as nice as it looks and really only used a couple times..

https://swmi.craigslist.org/tls/d/saint-joseph-seyco-st-21-scroll-saw/7005350155.html

[rustynail]

9 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

I just realized you're from Michigan too.. I just seen this listing tonight.. Not sure what the Seyco sells for new, but I've been eyeing the dust collector for a while now.. they run $160 if I remember correctly... Anyway... seems like a decent deal to me if it's as nice as it looks and really only used a couple times..

https://swmi.craigslist.org/tls/d/saint-joseph-seyco-st-21-scroll-saw/7005350155.html

I just sent him an e-mail to review the saw (3 hours away)  I will see if he responses? Thanks for the lead.....

[rustynail]

He just sent me a e-mail stating it was sold last night...

[kmmcrafts]

17 minutes ago, rustynail said:

He just sent me a e-mail stating it was sold last night...

Yeah those good deals don't hang around too long.. There is also a decent Hegner 22" saw in Kalamazoo for around $400.. That one probably gone as well, LOL

[kmmcrafts]

It's on FB Marketplace.. Not sure if this will post or if you can get it if you don't have FB..

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/420712761969123/?surface=product_details

[Rolf]

I would go for the Pegas. Seyco is an excellent saw with super support but some of the design changes did not make sense to me. Removing the rack and pinon adjustment, and the removable table surface.  The big plus for me on the Pegas is the clamps.

Just my opinion, don't beat me up.

Edited October 25, 2019 by Rolf

[OCtoolguy]

2 minutes ago, Rolf said:

I would go for the Pegas. Seyco is an excellent saw with super support but some of the design changes did not make sense to me. Removing the rack and pinon adjustment, and the removable table surface.  The big plus for me on the Pegas is the clamps.

Just my opinion, don't beat me up.

I agree Rolf.

[rustynail]

6 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

It's on FB Marketplace.. Not sure if this will post or if you can get it if you don't have FB..

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/420712761969123/?surface=product_details

Kevin thanks for the lead as the last one would have been great if it did not sell so fast but I am only looking for the Seyco or Pegas as I know the Hegner is a great saw but just not for me. Thanks for checking 

[Dave Monk]

23 hours ago, rustynail said:

Thanks for all the replies, at this point I am liking the Pegas the best as I feel I can get around the table size with just a add on table or try to re-drill and bring it forward.  Dave , have you ever seen or used the Seyco in person and or what made you go with the Pegas? 

 

I looked at a Seyco at a scroll saw show in Iowa a few years ago.  Didn't have a chance to try it out.  At the time I was ready to buy a new saw.  I had gone through two DeWalt's in less than two years. I scroll about six hours a day and the bearing went out.  After doing a lot talking to people at companys and  guys here at the Village I decided on a Hegner.  A work horse of a saw.  I'm sure it will outlive me.  I missed being able to top feed with it especially on large project.  I started doing a lot of inlay work and thought it would be nice to have two saws...one set up at an angle and the other left at 90.  When the Pegas came out I decided to bite the bullet and buy one.  I really like the saw. The table is plenty big for me. I really like the rack and pinion tilting mechanism.  It is really nice when you are trying to set a precise angle and then when you want to set it back to 90 there is a index pin that you push in that get you back perfect.  My only concern about the saw is the durability.  Already I notice a bit of looseness in the top and bottom blade clamp area compared to when it was new.  I wouldn't give up either of my saws. 

[kmmcrafts]

The quality of the bearing is more an issue with these type saws than the low amount of grease used.. I know most will say that the companies cheap out and put very little grease.. but they also cheap out and use poor quality metals as well.. The DeWalt I used to have was a year old it started making noises.. I took it apart and just did a cleaning of the bearings and added synthetic grease which bought me another year.. Then I bought some higher end bearings and added the same synthetic grease.. 6 years later it was starting to make noise again.. The thing is.. I didn't really saw all that much when just starting out.. but as I started up the business and started building inventory and filling orders.. Well I put at least 2-3 times the hours on that saw after the better bearing rebuild and got about 6 years heavy use as at that time I only had that saw.. 

My new EX doesn't have all that many hours on it and it's clattering.. I took it apart and cleaned up the old bearings and sleeves etc added the same grease.. I've put about 40 hours on it since that and it's already getting noisy again.. though I let it go too long making the noises the first time and they was a little beat up.. I should have just replaced them and most likely will after the holidays.. The better bearings I bought was special ordered from a local supplier that knows me and my family from many years of getting parts etc from them for my brothers lumber mill.. I don't recall the brand but I'll say they are more than double the price of those from VBX bearing.. which is where I got the last set for the old DeWalt.. they say right on the box made in china.. I want to say the ones the local guys got me was from Germany? I don't remember.. I sold the DeWalt so I have no idea how the bearings are holding up from VBX.. They felt lighter.. so I weighed them on my shipping scale.. they was .1 once lighter than those good bearings that the local guys got me.. I should have used grams instead of once's to weigh them as it probably would have been a bigger difference..  They was weighed after cleaning all the grease out so I wasn't weighing grease.. just the metals.. 

I'd like to get those good bearings again but the local shop changed hands and the new workers don't want t take the time to look up anything oddball.. wonder how long they can stay afloat with that type of customer service.. that place was known all around our area for they would search hours to find you just what you need.. now they just as nope can't get it... LOL

Talked to Ray at seyco one day and he said those bearings in the arm assemblies are hit and miss.. maybe 1 out of 5 or so hold up for many years.. That said.. I'm betting it's not a China made saw issue..for the bearing issues anyway.. Heck I had to change the bearings in my Hawk ultra last year and it didn't have a ton of hours on it.. and it's from 1998.. I guessing the grease dried up from sitting all those years though.. 

[rustynail]

In review of the saws I have decided on getting the Pegas saw thanks for all the info. (Now were to buy)

But also, as I have reviewed the Pegas saw I have seen different videos on the saw and the one had a phone number for the manufacture so I thought I would call them to ask some questions. In turn they gave me Bob their rep’s number as he is there technical person and has 15 years’ experience in the scroll saw industry and stated he would answer any questions on the saw. He seemed like a great guy with plenty of knowledge. Just a few things we talked about… 1^st the top is epoxy coated 2^nd the saw has heaver insides than the competitors no mater if they come from China or Twain 3^rd there bearing are all sealed steal type. Also, we talked about the vacuum system and he stated they are working on a new aftermarket top and bottom vacuum system that may be available. Plus, I had talked to him about the table size and he stated that a number of people have asked for a larger table but do to cost it would put there saws price over some of the competitors with similar saws, but he did saw they might possibly offer a larger table as an aftermarket product. One suggestion that was offered on the forum was to re-drill the top and pull it forward and the rep stated that would probably work but then your new holes would not be epoxied and could rust. (I would not be too worried about it as that can be easily fixed with wax as most do now with there tops. Also, the manual is being re written as it went threw three language changes …Just thought I would post a few interesting facts that I have learned.

Edited October 28, 2019 by rustynail

[kmmcrafts]

26 minutes ago, rustynail said:

In review of the saws I have decided on getting the Pegas saw thanks for all the info. (Now were to buy)

But also, as I have reviewed the Pegas saw I have seen different videos on the saw and the one had a phone number for the manufacture so I thought I would call them to ask some questions. In turn they gave me Bob their rep’s number as he is there technical person and has 15 years’ experience in the scroll saw industry and stated he would answer any questions on the saw. He seemed like a great guy with plenty of knowledge. Just a few things we talked about… 1^st the top is epoxy coated 2^nd the saw has heaver insides than the competitors no mater if they come from China or Twain 3^rd there bearing are all sealed steal type. Also, we talked about the vacuum system and he stated they are working on a new aftermarket top and bottom vacuum system that may be available. Plus, I had talked to him about the table size and he stated that a number of people have asked for a larger table but do to cost it would put there saws price over some of the competitors with similar saws, but he did saw they might possibly offer a larger table as an aftermarket product. One suggestion that was offered on the forum was to re-drill the top and pull it forward and the rep stated that would probably work but then your new holes would not be epoxied and could rust. (I would not be too worried about it as that can be easily fixed with wax as most do now with there tops. Also, the manual is being re written as it went threw three language changes …Just thought I would post a few interesting facts that I have learned.

I'm curious about the sealed bearings deal.. I've yet seen ANY scroll saw with sealed bearings.. other than the two bearings that connect the motor shaft to the arms in that connecting rod thing.. second thing comes to mind.. they might consider them sealed because they are enclosed inside the saws case.. BUT.. that said.. I own a pegas clamp chuck.. and it is designed to be on the same bearing system as the Excalibur saws as well as well as the DW788's.. I'm thinking they cannot use that same chuck on their own saws if that front portion is really sealed bearings.. and while maybe they would but I have a hard time believing they'd redesign a clamp for just their own saw to have sealed bearings.. I may be wrong.. but that sealed bearings deal sounds like hogwash..  NOW... They could for real.. have a higher quality bearing than the others.. but sealed bearing would have to redesign the whole thing.. As I said.. they may have sealed bearings.. I just find it hard to believe they'd redesign the wheel when the current designs are proven good.. provided they have high quality parts.. 

I may be buying one of these just to take it apart.. That may seem funny to you all but that was a big reason I bought my EX.. everyone was saying they had sealed bearings.. and guess what.. They don't .. LOL.. There is nothing wrong with the needle bearing set up these saws have.. even sealed go bad after you burn up the grease.. etc.. but a high quality bearing vrs. bearing made with inferior metals makes a big difference..

Not trying to say anything bad about Bob.. he's a good guy.. nor am I trying to beat down the Pegas quality. I've just been around a lot of scroll saws and machines.. The term "sealed" is sometimes used loosely.. as in.. they're not sealed bearing but rather sealed in the saws body / case.. to me that is different than a actual sealed bearing.. But whatever.. at the end of the day Pegas is high end stuff from what I've seen..

One other key word said.. about the table being bigger.. and putting the saw out of the price range of competition.. so would redesigning the whole saw to use sealed bearings.. Just my two cent..  

[kmmcrafts]

4 hours ago, rustynail said:

In review of the saws I have decided on getting the Pegas saw thanks for all the info. (Now were to buy)

 

As to where to buy.. I think all the distributors that I know of and heard of are pretty reputable.. I've had pretty good experiences with Bearwoods other than they was a little slow on getting my blades in the mail.. though they was ( Canada ) having a mail strike that had just gotten over with... so maybe it was backlogged.. Only time I bought from them.. then I had a batch of bad blades.. but they sent out another batch to replace my entire order right away.. so a thumbs up for that service..

DnD was always good to deal with too.. no complaints

QTE was good to deal with and I've seen 2-3 others post about how they've gone above and beyond for customers.. one was just recently too.. There maybe more places.. but these are the main ones I hear about quite often and I've personally done business with each of these with no complaints..

I personally try to do business with the smaller mom & pops kinds of places.. I guess being a small business myself and how I appreciate the customers I get helps me stay in business etc..  I don't know how big QTE is Bearwoods is pretty well known.. But I've dealt with and really like doing business with DnD.   DnD is in PA and QTE is CA and I believe Bearwoods is Canada.. so since you are here in MI. If you order from DnD provided they have stock.. It might arrive quicker, LOL 

Edited October 29, 2019 by kmmcrafts

[Dave Monk]

5 hours ago, rustynail said:

In review of the saws I have decided on getting the Pegas saw thanks for all the info. (Now were to buy)

But also, as I have reviewed the Pegas saw I have seen different videos on the saw and the one had a phone number for the manufacture so I thought I would call them to ask some questions. In turn they gave me Bob their rep’s number as he is there technical person and has 15 years’ experience in the scroll saw industry and stated he would answer any questions on the saw. He seemed like a great guy with plenty of knowledge. Just a few things we talked about… 1^st the top is epoxy coated 2^nd the saw has heaver insides than the competitors no mater if they come from China or Twain 3^rd there bearing are all sealed steal type. Also, we talked about the vacuum system and he stated they are working on a new aftermarket top and bottom vacuum system that may be available. Plus, I had talked to him about the table size and he stated that a number of people have asked for a larger table but do to cost it would put there saws price over some of the competitors with similar saws, but he did saw they might possibly offer a larger table as an aftermarket product. One suggestion that was offered on the forum was to re-drill the top and pull it forward and the rep stated that would probably work but then your new holes would not be epoxied and could rust. (I would not be too worried about it as that can be easily fixed with wax as most do now with there tops. Also, the manual is being re written as it went threw three language changes …Just thought I would post a few interesting facts that I have learned.

Bought mine from D&D.

[NC Scroller]

Klingspor is now selling Pegas scroll and band saws.  

[meflick]

17 hours ago, rustynail said:

In review of the saws I have decided on getting the Pegas saw thanks for all the info. (Now were to buy) . . . 

You might check with @Denny Knappen who is a member here in the Village and who has a shop and who has recently noted that he has become a distributor of the Pegas Saw.  One thing I would check is whether the place you order it from "stock" them (i.e. they are shipped to them first) or if they are all dropped shipped directly from Pegas.  I don't know the answer to this.  Denny can probably answer that question or Bob with Pegas. If they are all drop shipped them I would say shipping time would all be the same.  If some are drop shipped and some are carried in stock, shipping time might vary.  Good luck with getting it.  I hear good things about it so hopefully you will love it too.

[Steve_in_Jersey]

On 10/28/2019 at 4:52 PM, rustynail said:

In review of the saws I have decided on getting the Pegas saw thanks for all the info. (Now were to buy)

But also, as I have reviewed the Pegas saw I have seen different videos on the saw and the one had a phone number for the manufacture so I thought I would call them to ask some questions. In turn they gave me Bob their rep’s number as he is there technical person and has 15 years’ experience in the scroll saw industry and stated he would answer any questions on the saw. He seemed like a great guy with plenty of knowledge. Just a few things we talked about… 1^st the top is epoxy coated 2^nd the saw has heaver insides than the competitors no mater if they come from China or Twain 3^rd there bearing are all sealed steal type. Also, we talked about the vacuum system and he stated they are working on a new aftermarket top and bottom vacuum system that may be available. Plus, I had talked to him about the table size and he stated that a number of people have asked for a larger table but do to cost it would put there saws price over some of the competitors with similar saws, but he did saw they might possibly offer a larger table as an aftermarket product. One suggestion that was offered on the forum was to re-drill the top and pull it forward and the rep stated that would probably work but then your new holes would not be epoxied and could rust. (I would not be too worried about it as that can be easily fixed with wax as most do now with there tops. Also, the manual is being re written as it went threw three language changes …Just thought I would post a few interesting facts that I have learned.

To RustyNail:  

To resurrect an 'old' thread, I assume by now you've acquired that Pegas?   I'm curious what your experience has been and if you're pleased with it (I'm in same boat as you were).

[Denny Knappen]

Actually he purchased the saw from me through ArtCrafters.  Most everyone I dealt with is very satisfied with the Pegas Scroll Saw.  Looks like you are in New Jersey.  The saw is shipped from Carlstadt, NJ, so shipping would be minimal.  Any questions, send me a pm.

[WayneMahler]

On 10/22/2019 at 8:41 PM, rustynail said:

  

I am thinking about selling my 21’’ DeWalt type one scroll saw and up grading to one of these saws only (sorry I am not interested in any others). I am torn as they both get good reviews. I like that the Seyco has the larger table like my DeWalt has but the Pegas has the better blade holders and can tilt more. Currently I don’t specialize in any kind of sawing but I like versatility. I have been doing some marquetry as of late and did use my DeWalt for that but want to do multiple things. For those that have used, seen, or have both or have thoughts on which one please help me decide on which one tilts the scales. I know Steve Goodal has given both great reviews and that just makes it more confusing.

Thanks

This may sound a little old school but I know it helps me in times like your going through. First grab a pen or pencil and a notebook, then a cup of coffee. Make a list of what you do. Then a list of what you want to expand in or learn. On a second clean sheet draw a line down the middle and list the 2 saws on the very top. A couple lines down from the top draw 2 more lines dividing the halves into quarters. Above one quarter mark pro's and above the other Con's, repeat for the other side. Write down the pro's and con's for each saw in the appropriate column . Once you get this completed study each column and figure out which best suits your desires. This helps me put things into a clearer perspective for making a choice. Hoping this helps you some. One thing to keep in mind though. The Seyco has a built in electronic angle gauge for doing beveled cuts which eliminates the need for a separate gauge for setting the tilt of the arm on these saws.

[Dave Monk]

I really like the 180 indexing pin on the rack and pinion that the pegas has. I use it a lot.  I have had my pegas for about a year and a half now and like it a lot.

[Roberta Moreton]

On 10/22/2019 at 10:13 PM, Scrappile said:

Okay.. Here is what would have decided me, had the Pegas been available when I purchased the Seyco.... The Pegas is a around $50 cheaper.....

I purchased one of the final runs of the EX 21 before the change. If I could, I would buy the Pegas. Upgraded to their clamps on my EX

[rustynail]

I like the saw it cuts great and is well built. The only draw back I don't like is the small black table as wish it was bigger in front of the blade and not black? I picked this over the Seyco  mostly for there blade holders and the rack and pinion knob for tilting the table. You can get the Pegas blade holder for the Seyco and it does have a larger table but with the upgrade holders  it will cost you about $150 to $200 more when all said and done.. 

 

Edited May 29, 2020 by rustynail