Excalibur 16 new for me review.

[Rolf]

The $15 one only has one hole in it to fasten to a jig, not sure what you would do with the ring  that is on it.

I now have a couple of hours on the saw. Cutting  Alex Fox Christmas tree that reduced to 50%  from 10" to 5". A very delicate cut in a few places. A stack of 2 1/8 BB and am using a 2/0 Pegas 28 TPI blade. No reverse teeth, I ordered the wrong ones.  I never broke a blade just dulled one. 

The saw has a bit of vibration. But over all I am very pleased.

[kmmcrafts]

Saw vibration is a tricky thing... All the saws I have had always had the factory stand.. but when getting the saws brand new always too excited to give it a try so I just put them on the table or a work bench and give them a go right out of the box.. Of all the saws I've owned the dewalt was the smoothest running un-bolted saw I've ever used.. right behind that one was a old Delta 40-530 2 speed 16" saw.. that one was smooth and i never did mount that one down to the bench or a stand.. I was quite surprised how much vibration my EX had being made very similar to the deWalt and how everyone talked about how smooth they run etc.. Maybe mine was bad from the get go.. anyway... I had a cheap Harbor Freight stand and mounted a piece of 1" flooring OSB type material to the stand since the EX wouldn't fit directly to the stand.. Mounted it up this way and it was much better than un-bolted.. but not by a whole lot.. Ended up buying a actual EX stand.. once set up on that... smooth as silk then.. The Hawks are real fussy with the stands but those massive arms and the design of those saws it's kinda understandable.. I think by quite a bit the Dewalt was always the smoothest running saw I ever had.. 

Also something I noticed with the EX was that tuning the motor etc. made a difference in how smooth it runs too.. 

[OCtoolguy]

21 minutes ago, kmmcrafts said:

Saw vibration is a tricky thing... All the saws I have had always had the factory stand.. but when getting the saws brand new always too excited to give it a try so I just put them on the table or a work bench and give them a go right out of the box.. Of all the saws I've owned the dewalt was the smoothest running un-bolted saw I've ever used.. right behind that one was a old Delta 40-530 2 speed 16" saw.. that one was smooth and i never did mount that one down to the bench or a stand.. I was quite surprised how much vibration my EX had being made very similar to the deWalt and how everyone talked about how smooth they run etc.. Maybe mine was bad from the get go.. anyway... I had a cheap Harbor Freight stand and mounted a piece of 1" flooring OSB type material to the stand since the EX wouldn't fit directly to the stand.. Mounted it up this way and it was much better than un-bolted.. but not by a whole lot.. Ended up buying a actual EX stand.. once set up on that... smooth as silk then.. The Hawks are real fussy with the stands but those massive arms and the design of those saws it's kinda understandable.. I think by quite a bit the Dewalt was always the smoothest running saw I ever had.. 

Also something I noticed with the EX was that tuning the motor etc. made a difference in how smooth it runs too.. 

I sort of agree with you Kevin. My Dewalt type 1 was very smooth too. What I have found from all the saws I've had so far, and I've had one of each of the top 4, at some speed they all have a vibration. So far, I've been lucky enough to find the sweet spot and it seems to turn out that it's my preferred cutting speed. I am not one who wants or needs to run full out. I enjoy cutting at mid range and lower. I'm not in a hurry so saw speed doesn't mean much to me. Also, I found that tuning the motor/agression of the EX type saws does make a big difference in the vibration. I am in the process of buying another Hegner 18 inch saw that has all the latest upgrades already done to it. If,after I get it, it turns out to be better than my last Hegner, I'm going to sell the Hawk. Not for any reason other than it is just too big for my small shop. And, I hate how tall it is. With the Hegner, I negotiated a price without the stand. I'll build a low stand for it just like my EX. 

 

[rustynail]

4 hours ago, octoolguy said:

Thanks for that link Rolf. I did check it out and they also have these for a couple bucks less. Not sure whether they would work like yours or not.

https://www.zoro.com/magswitch-keychain-magnet-60-lb-max-pull-steel-8100514/i/G3898382/

Or build your own?

 

[OCtoolguy]

6 minutes ago, rustynail said:

Or build your own?

 

Now, that looks like fun.

 

[Rockytime]

1 hour ago, octoolguy said:

<SNIP> I'm going to sell the Hawk. Not for any reason other than it is just too big for my small shop. And, I hate how tall it is. With the Hegner, I negotiated a price without the stand. I'll build a low stand for it just like my EX. 

 

The footprint of my Hawk was the problem. Aside from that I loved the saw. I sold mine the other day. Had it listed in Craig's and Facebook Market for $500, then $400, then $350 and finally sold it for $325. Money is tight. I sold it  to a lovely young lady who is deaf and mute. She showed me some of her scroll work and designs which were outstanding. I said, "You used a scroll saw." Oh no she said, "I used a hand jig saw." I was stunned at her doing all that beautiful work by hand. She was an attractive young lady in her Carhart pants and Denim jacket and driving a larger Toyota pickup.  I would have kept the Hawk as I found it convenient to have two saws but after finding the second Hegner the Hawk had to go.

[JimErn]

9 hours ago, octoolguy said:

I enjoy cutting at mid range and lower. I'm not in a hurry so saw speed doesn't mean much to me.

 

Does the speed of the blade influence you on how fast you cut?

I run the saw at slightly more then 3/4 speed, but how fast I cut is the rate that I feed the piece into the blade.  I found that the higher the blade speed the fewer fuzzies I have to deal with when I am done.  I feel that is because the blade is stroking the same spot in the cut more than at a lower speed.

[Rolf]

I am getting a bit of a hockey stick in the bottom clamp. So I took the clamp screw apart and put a drop of Silicon lube on the o-ring to see if hat helps.

Regarding reducing the blade tension.  I have been bottom feeding so I release the the tension and upper clamp, when I but the blade back in I drop it down about 1/16 in the clamp, it is real easy to see in the Pegas clamp.  It is very repeatable no broken blades yet. The saw seems to be more forgiving on the small blades than My Hawk. 

[OCtoolguy]

14 hours ago, Rockytime said:

The footprint of my Hawk was the problem. Aside from that I loved the saw. I sold mine the other day. Had it listed in Craig's and Facebook Market for $500, then $400, then $350 and finally sold it for $325. Money is tight. I sold it  to a lovely young lady who is deaf and mute. She showed me some of her scroll work and designs which were outstanding. I said, "You used a scroll saw." Oh no she said, "I used a hand jig saw." I was stunned at her doing all that beautiful work by hand. She was an attractive young lady in her Carhart pants and Denim jacket and driving a larger Toyota pickup.  I would have kept the Hawk as I found it convenient to have two saws but after finding the second Hegner the Hawk had to go.

Les, it sounds like it went to a very good home. If she is local, maybe you can stay in touch and learn from each other.

[OCtoolguy]

6 hours ago, JimErn said:

Does the speed of the blade influence you on how fast you cut?

I run the saw at slightly more then 3/4 speed, but how fast I cut is the rate that I feed the piece into the blade.  I found that the higher the blade speed the fewer fuzzies I have to deal with when I am done.  I feel that is because the blade is stroking the same spot in the cut more than at a lower speed.

Excellent point. 

[kmmcrafts]

6 hours ago, JimErn said:

Does the speed of the blade influence you on how fast you cut?

I run the saw at slightly more then 3/4 speed, but how fast I cut is the rate that I feed the piece into the blade.  I found that the higher the blade speed the fewer fuzzies I have to deal with when I am done.  I feel that is because the blade is stroking the same spot in the cut more than at a lower speed.

I also like to run the saw faster.. and no it doesn't mean you cut faster.. cutting faster is the rate you feed the wood to the blade.. I find it easier to do those sharp corner cuts with a faster blade speed.. I also like to cut so I'm not pushing onto the wood to get it to cut but rather sort of hold back on the wood if that makes sense at all.. I guess you're always pushing into the blade but at slower blade speeds I feel I push the wood through rather than let the blade do the cutting.. 

Lot's of folks say you don't need that kinda blade speed and say it burns up blades doing fast speeds.. I find opposite.. a blade will heat up at a slow rate if you're forcing it through.. You get all kinds of different strokes for different folks kinda thing but many think because I'm business I'm running full speed to go fast... and that's just not the case.. Many newer scroll sawers use blade speed to control how fast the cutting goes.. Too fast and they feel like they cannot keep up so they slow the saw down..

Years ago I talked with Mike that sold FD blades as I was having problems cutting a thick piece of white oak or hickory I don't remember the wood.. One of the first few questions he asked me was blade speed.. I kept getting burnt edges and what have you.. He told me I was running the blade too slow.. Told me to crank up the speed at least 3/4 on the dial or better.. So that proves my point.. forcing the wood through the blade will heat the blade.. If you let the blade do it's job either going fast or slow speed it won't get too hot unless your pushing off to one side slightly making the blade rub the edge of the cut.. 

I've read where people say if you run your saw on high speed you are stupid and or you have no business scroll sawing.. well.. the blade distributor is the one to tell me to run the saw fast... and I have been doing so for the last 10 years since he told me that.. which made me realize that it's actually easier to saw with a faster speed and then slowly feed the wood into the blade..

So to all those with the thought that I run my saw full speed because I'm in a rush are totally wrong.. But as I've said... everyone has a different cutting style.. also how the saw is set up makes a difference too..

  

[Rockytime]

25 minutes ago, octoolguy said:

Les, it sounds like it went to a very good home. If she is local, maybe you can stay in touch and learn from each other.

She lives in Genesee 

[OCtoolguy]

6 minutes ago, Rockytime said:

She lives in Genesee 

I don't recall where that is. 

[kmmcrafts]

3 hours ago, Rolf said:

I am getting a bit of a hockey stick in the bottom clamp. So I took the clamp screw apart and put a drop of Silicon lube on the o-ring to see if hat helps.

Regarding reducing the blade tension.  I have been bottom feeding so I release the the tension and upper clamp, when I but the blade back in I drop it down about 1/16 in the clamp, it is real easy to see in the Pegas clamp.  It is very repeatable no broken blades yet. The saw seems to be more forgiving on the small blades than My Hawk. 

Rolf, I believe your set screw is not protruded through the clamp far enough.. I like to use a feeler gauge to clamp into the clamp so to speak so the set screw on both top and bottom clamps are exactly the same so I'm not cutting on an angle.. If that makes any sense.. a lot of people like to have them in the center of the clamp.. and that works to as long as you have them both exactly centered.. But the most important thing is they are square to one another.. 

[hotshot]

28 minutes ago, kmmcrafts said:

Rolf, I believe your set screw is not protruded through the clamp far enough.. I like to use a feeler gauge to clamp into the clamp so to speak so the set screw on both top and bottom clamps are exactly the same so I'm not cutting on an angle.. If that makes any sense.. a lot of people like to have them in the center of the clamp.. and that works to as long as you have them both exactly centered.. But the most important thing is they are square to one another.. 

This approach is valid, but as an alternative approach:

Back the set screw into the clamp, and put something like a coin in the gap, and tighten it in.  Then you can simply turn the setscrew until it touches the coin, which would make it flush.  Then remove the coin, and turn the setscrew another half turn or so, which leave the set screw "proud" in the gap at a very defined distance.

Both approaches are valid, so whichever is easier.  I've been tempted to "blue 242" loctite it in, but have never gotten around to it.

----Randy

Edited October 28, 2019 by hotshot

[Rockytime]

29 minutes ago, octoolguy said:

I don't recall where that is. 

Just a mountain town up Hwy 285

[kmmcrafts]

1 hour ago, hotshot said:

This approach is valid, but as an alternative approach:

Back the set screw into the clamp, and put something like a coin in the gap, and tighten it in.  Then you can simply turn the setscrew until it touches the coin, which would make it flush.  Then remove the coin, and turn the setscrew another half turn or so, which leave the set screw "proud" in the gap at a very defined distance.

Both approaches are valid, so whichever is easier.  I've been tempted to "blue 242" loctite it in, but have never gotten around to it.

----Randy

I like your way better as it seems easier, Thanks for the suggestion 

[OCtoolguy]

1 hour ago, hotshot said:

This approach is valid, but as an alternative approach:

Back the set screw into the clamp, and put something like a coin in the gap, and tighten it in.  Then you can simply turn the setscrew until it touches the coin, which would make it flush.  Then remove the coin, and turn the setscrew another half turn or so, which leave the set screw "proud" in the gap at a very defined distance.

Both approaches are valid, so whichever is easier.  I've been tempted to "blue 242" loctite it in, but have never gotten around to it.

----Randy

Randy, that's exactly how I did mine with the exception that I don't use a coin. I use one of my many 6" pocket rulers that I used to give away for free on my tool truck back in the day. I can control it better than a coin with my stubby fingers. But, your method is the best way I have come across. Great minds and all that stuff.........lol.

 

Edited October 28, 2019 by octoolguy

[Rolf]

You guys are great! Randy that method is a simple and repeatable way of setting the clamps. I would also use a rule or something totally flat instead of a coin. 

Looking at my clamps they setscrew protrusion (like that word) seems to be equal on both the top and bottom clamp. that was one of the first things I checked. I got a message from Bob Duncan and his thought was that the two surfaces were not meeting on center and to turn the set screw just a tad. 

[Rolf]

I was showing a new club member the Ex 16 and had it running real slow only to hear a light metallic ticking sound. After he left I tore down the top arm assembly and added some lithium grease to the needle bearings. It seems to run much quieter now.  

I think I will tear the entire saw down after my holiday cutting frenzy is over.  I will have to ask the guy I bought it from how much cutting he did with it.

Octoolguy (Ray)  I turned the three legged stand around so the single leg was forward. Strangely the saw really vibrated that way,  I turned it back the other way and the saw was fine.?  I assume that the added mass of the two legs was the reason. 

 

 

Edited November 2, 2019 by Rolf

[Scrappile]

There must be a reason like you state for the stand configuration (2 legs in front).  That is the way the Hegner is mounted to it's three legged stand and the only way it can be mounted, unless you drill new holes to bolt the saw down with.

[kmmcrafts]

DeWalt stands are the same as well.. Only mount the saw so the work end of it is where the two legs are on the stand.. and no way to change that set up not even by drilling new holes, LOL... 

Edit to say: I find it odd how a DeWalt can run soo smooth without a stand.. just setting on the wood workbench.. I did that with my EX and that thing had a considerable amount of vibration.. Now I don't know how the better made EX saws are since mine is the China made one and  had to be one of the first few made. so it's bound to have issues... I call the thing a piece of junk.. but then I realize just how much I saw and maybe I'm kinda harsh.. I'm having some issues again with it since I re-greased up the bearings etc.. But I've also put nearly 100 run time hours on it in the last 3-4 weeks since I did that.. I feel like I've barely even used it.. Maybe I have a lot more hours on this saw than I really think I do..  Then again.. The DeWalt never gave me this much trouble.. LOL. Or any other saw I've had.. 

Edited November 2, 2019 by kmmcrafts

[OCtoolguy]

3 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

DeWalt stands are the same as well.. Only mount the saw so the work end of it is where the two legs are on the stand.. and no way to change that set up not even by drilling new holes, LOL... 

Edit to say: I find it odd how a DeWalt can run soo smooth without a stand.. just setting on the wood workbench.. I did that with my EX and that thing had a considerable amount of vibration.. Now I don't know how the better made EX saws are since mine is the China made one and  had to be one of the first few made. so it's bound to have issues... I call the thing a piece of junk.. but then I realize just how much I saw and maybe I'm kinda harsh.. I'm having some issues again with it since I re-greased up the bearings etc.. But I've also put nearly 100 run time hours on it in the last 3-4 weeks since I did that.. I feel like I've barely even used it.. Maybe I have a lot more hours on this saw than I really think I do..  Then again.. The DeWalt never gave me this much trouble.. LOL. Or any other saw I've had.. 

Sell it! Buy another Dewalt!

 

[kmmcrafts]

1 hour ago, octoolguy said:

Sell it! Buy another Dewalt!

 

That has kinda crossed my mind a few times.. I'm pretty sure i could buy my old one back.. my sons friend bought it used it and made about 6-8 projects he wanted to do for his house.. now it just sits in his shed..

That said.. I do like the EX style better over the DeWalt.. I just will never buy another China made one.. in fact.. I'd have never bought mine had I known it was a China made saw.. I bought it before anyone even knew the EX 21 came back.. they wasn't even available online or in stores yet... The kid I got it from said they was going to be bringing the EX back and that Home Depot where his dad worked said they was coming back.. but this was before anyone had mentioned anything about them being made in China.. I'm wondering how he got his hands on one.. it was probably stolen, LOL This is why I say I have a early made China made saw..

Also have to say.. I'm not the guy to sell some junk to others that might like the hobby end up hating it because of a crap saw.. If anything I'll pull my pegas clamps off and haul it in with my scrap metal..Not sure it's even worth scrap prices, LOL

[OCtoolguy]

1 hour ago, kmmcrafts said:

That has kinda crossed my mind a few times.. I'm pretty sure i could buy my old one back.. my sons friend bought it used it and made about 6-8 projects he wanted to do for his house.. now it just sits in his shed..

That said.. I do like the EX style better over the DeWalt.. I just will never buy another China made one.. in fact.. I'd have never bought mine had I known it was a China made saw.. I bought it before anyone even knew the EX 21 came back.. they wasn't even available online or in stores yet... The kid I got it from said they was going to be bringing the EX back and that Home Depot where his dad worked said they was coming back.. but this was before anyone had mentioned anything about them being made in China.. I'm wondering how he got his hands on one.. it was probably stolen, LOL This is why I say I have a early made China made saw..

Also have to say.. I'm not the guy to sell some junk to others that might like the hobby end up hating it because of a crap saw.. If anything I'll pull my pegas clamps off and haul it in with my scrap metal..Not sure it's even worth scrap prices, LOL

Well, never forget the axiom that "one man's trash is another man's treasure".