Dead Excelsior Scroll Saw

[OCtoolguy]

4 minutes ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

Ray take a photo of where that chord connects to the saw and post it. Hard to believe yours is not in the same place. 

I will tomorrow. But, I looked all around where the cord plugs in and there is no fuse holder that I could see. If it's there it must be disguised as a bolt or something. 

[OCtoolguy]

3 hours ago, William O Young said:

Do you have a phone number ?

It's on their website. Seyco.com.

[hotshot]

2 hours ago, William O Young said:

.......They are being flogged out of  china  like they are going out of style and will probably do the same with them  as soon as they get in the  same position of hundreds of thousands of Dewalts that are always available  as  defective refurbished ones  from ones returned under warranty while the ones that out of warranty still  have to have expensive parts replaced sooner or later........

Well, actually, only Excalibur is made in China.  All these re-brands are Taiwan, from the same factory Ex was made in prior to their last move.  Taiwan has a better reputation with quality.  

Delta is currently very problematic for OEM parts.  I've had the latest model Delta scroll saw with parts on back order for about 3 months now.  Thankfully, many critical parts are identical to the DW788s.

Edited December 2, 2019 by hotshot

[William O Young]

58 minutes ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

Hard to get Delta parts these days. It has been talked about here. People liked the blade clamp on them. 

The parts  for P-20s are  available if you know where to look . No problem .  Fortunately , there is seldom a case where parts are needed on them . Yes the blade clamps for the P-20 were the best ever made  of any saw I know of . .I replaced the  blade clamps on my brand new excelsior saw within the first 4 or 5 hours of using it with the new $50.00 Pegas blade holders  along with many others that were having problems with the originals . Probably just a case of no quality control in the same plant in China that made all of them . They were good enough on some of those saws and terrible on others. A  crap shoot on whether you pay the same big bucks for good ones or bad ones . . 

Edited December 2, 2019 by William O Young

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

1 hour ago, octoolguy said:

I will tomorrow. But, I looked all around where the cord plugs in and there is no fuse holder that I could see. If it's there it must be disguised as a bolt or something. 

What year is it?? I am abit confused now that Randy has chimed in. Are there only one type EXcaliburs??  I thought Seyco was the one making them and not China. We maybe talking about 2 different saws here. 

Edited December 2, 2019 by JTTHECLOCKMAN

[William O Young]

40 minutes ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

What year is it?? I am abit confused now that Randy has chimed in. Are there only one type EXcaliburs??  I thought Seyco was the one making them and not China. We maybe talking about 2 different saws here. 

Most manufacturers of similar saws  except for a different  name  and colour like these eventually get farmed out to the country that will make them the cheapest and that nearly always means China.  A picture is worth a thousand words  but a video is even better . . Rather than a picture of the fuse location on my  Excelsior I might do a video  instead on mine that might help  somebody in the future.

Edited December 2, 2019 by William O Young

[OCtoolguy]

37 minutes ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

What year is it?? I am abit confused now that Randy has chimed in. Are there only one type EXcaliburs??  I thought Seyco was the one making them and not China. We maybe talking about 2 different saws here. 

Well, I think the Excelsior and the King are knock-offs of the Excalibur. They appear to be identical. My EX is a 2010 model. Green. But the Excelsior doesn't seem to have a manual online. 

[OCtoolguy]

I think Ray Seymore will enlighten us all when he gets the call.

[JimErn]

This parts page has the motor control unit listed , but email Ray at that site if you have other questions to avoid phone charges.

https://www.seyco.com/partspage/

3rd and fourth from the bottom

EX21-A31/32	Motor speed control for all sizes Excalibur scroll saws. NOTE: FREIGHT PLUS 30% RE-STOCKING CHARGES APPLICABLE TO ALL RETURNED ELECTRICAL PARTS.	$31.55
EX21-A34	Motor control set (circuit board assembly). NOTE: FREIGHT PLUS 30% RE-STOCKING CHARGES APPLICABLE TO ALL RETURNED ELECTRICAL PARTS.	$69.03

[hotshot]

Just a clarification on who is making what . . . . and stuff.

All EX type saws except Excalibur, are made in the same factory in Taiwan, these include Jet, Seyco, King, Excelsior, Axminster, Pegas, and Carbatec.  This is the same factory that made Excalibur when it originally left Canada many years ago.  After the move to Taiwan, there were some improvements/tweaks to the design, then a few years later, starting with the anniversary edition, further changes.  So the Taiwan factory was the original factory for the last two design iterations.  This is why I don't consider saws coming from the Taiwan factory Knock-Offs.  There are a few differences in Jet and Seyco (and clamps on Pegas), but the guts of these saws are very similar.  King Canada markets the same saw as "Excelsior" in Canada, and "King" in the U.S.

When General (owner of Excalibur brand) got a new owner from China, there was some "drama" between General (Excalibur) and this Taiwan factory, so General tried to move manufacturing to a factory in China.  That transition did not go well, and quality out of the Chinese factory is very suspect.  Seyco will not support any saw made in China, so luckily, there doesn't seem to be a lot of New Excaliburs out there.

I suppose it is just semantics, but  I do not consider saws coming off the same manufacturing line as they have for years knockoffs, but think of those as re-brands.  Not sure what to call the version of Excalibur that is now coming out of China, but they certainly don't deserve the Excalibur name.

Edited December 2, 2019 by hotshot

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

1 hour ago, hotshot said:

Just a clarification on who is making what . . . . and stuff.

All EX type saws except Excalibur, are made in the same factory in Taiwan, these include Jet, Seyco, King, Excelsior, Axminster, Pegas, and Carbatec.  This is the same factory that made Excalibur when it originally left Canada many years ago.  After the move to Taiwan, there was some improvements/tweaks to the design, then a few years later, starting with the anniversary edition, further changes.  So the Taiwan factory was the original factory for the last two design iterations.  This is why I don't consider saws coming from the Taiwan factory Knock-Offs.  There are a few differences in Jet and Seyco (and clamps on Pegas), but the guts of these saws are very similar.  King Canada markets the same saw as "Excelsior" in Canada, and "King" in the U.S.

When General (owner of Excalibur brand) got a new owner from China, there was some "drama" between General (Excalibur) and this Taiwan factory, so General tried to move manufacturing to a factory in China.  That transition did not go well, and quality out of the Chinese factory is very suspect.  Seyco will not support any saw made in China, so luckily, there doesn't seem to be a lot of New Excaliburs out there.

I suppose it is just semantics, but  I do not consider saws coming off the same manufacturing line as they have for years knockoffs, but think of those as re-brands.  Not sure what to call the version of Excalibur that is now coming out of China, but they certainly don't deserve the Excalibur name.

Well that confuses things even more. Maybe the color of the saw can tell the difference in place made. I know the saws Ray is putting out now are not called Excaliburs but it would be hard pressed to tell the difference except for the tilt box he added. To me they are all clones and call it what you want. Cosmetic changes here and there. I remember when the Dewalt moved out of Canada and the mess that created and those saws still show up and cause havoc. Type #1 saws were sought after when that took place. I am guessing things calmed down with those. 

[dgman]

And just to clear up one other item that was mentioned. The EX saws are not a clone of the DEWALT saw. It’s just the opposite. The original DeWALT saw was designed by Summerfield Desgns. They were the creator of the original Excalibur saw. DeWALT had them design and build the DeWALT DW788. That was the type 1 and modeled after the original Excalibur saw. That’s why some parts are interchangeable.

[William O Young]

4 hours ago, JimErn said:

This parts page has the motor control unit listed , but email Ray at that site if you have other questions to avoid phone charges.

https://www.seyco.com/partspage/

3rd and fourth from the bottom

EX21-A31/32	Motor speed control for all sizes Excalibur scroll saws. NOTE: FREIGHT PLUS 30% RE-STOCKING CHARGES APPLICABLE TO ALL RETURNED ELECTRICAL PARTS.	$31.55
EX21-A34	Motor control set (circuit board assembly). NOTE: FREIGHT PLUS 30% RE-STOCKING CHARGES APPLICABLE TO ALL RETURNED ELECTRICAL PARTS.	$69.03

Thanks for that Jim That $70.00 board in US dollars is $94.50 in Canadian dollars  plus  plus 35% exchange rate   plus about ten bucks shipping = $104.50  plus $12% taxes  to get it here  = $117.04 plus the aggravation of having to replace it. Thanks to the discussion here and the help from many members I am fortunate that I will not need a new board or motor at all this time around .I am shovelling snow and turned the heater on in my shop and I will be making a video  after my shop warms up that will hopefully be helpful to some . 

Edited December 2, 2019 by William O Young

[JimErn]

You know it might really be worth the time to talk to Ray, but, I'm more apt to want to check the speed control pot before deciding it is the control board.

With your vac tube experience it shouldn't be much to put a dc meter on the pot terminals, vary it, and watch the change in voltage.  Since it most likely feeds a solid state circuit board it should be  a dc control voltage.  If it is the pot, any electronics store should have a replacement.

[William O Young]

19 minutes ago, JimErn said:

You know it might really be worth the time to talk to Ray, but, I'm more apt to want to check the speed control pot before deciding it is the control board.

With your vac tube experience it shouldn't be much to put a dc meter on the pot terminals, vary it, and watch the change in voltage.  Since it most likely feeds a solid state circuit board it should be  a dc control voltage.  If it is the pot, any electronics store should have a replacement.

I guess you missed the discussion further back in this thread  that says I have found the elusive fuse and replaced it to get the saw running..As soon as shop warms up I will try making a video.

[JimErn]

ROFL, yea I did miss that, late to the party as usual

Now the question is why did the fuse blow, not like they have a shelf life or anything

[trackman]

Jim I didn’t see were he said he found the fuse either. Looked thru the threads o-well lol

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

32 minutes ago, JimErn said:

ROFL, yea I did miss that, late to the party as usual

Now the question is why did the fuse blow, not like they have a shelf life or anything

He said he did not use the saw for a long time. Sitting out in a shed in elements could have rusted the armature abit, stiffened the grease in the bearings, or a number of things. He tried spinning the motor by hand to get it to work so this may have freed things up. The fuse blew due to the extra current to try to start. These things can happen for people who have garage shops or shed shops and have tools that sit for long periods of time. This would be my educated guess.

Edited December 2, 2019 by JTTHECLOCKMAN

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

3 minutes ago, trackman said:

Jim I didn’t see were he said he found the fuse either. Looked thru the threads o-well lol

Towards bottom of page 2. This thread took on some life that most threads here do not. This may help others because there are alot of those type saws out there. 

[Bill WIlson]

I've been following this thread with great interest.  Lots of good info to be had here.  

[OCtoolguy]

If it were me, I might be tempted to bump that fuse up a bit. 3.5 amps is pretty light. Maybe a 7.5 amp would keep this from happening. If I'm wrong, I welcome the criticism.

[OCtoolguy]

Over the years, I have purchased many different refurbished items. I'm a firm believer that once something has been "remanufactured" the problems are rooted out and and solved. In the case of your saw, I think you might be condemning it because of a problem that you, the buyer, owner, user may have inadvertently caused. If it has been as cold as you say, and it sat unused for a time, the grease in all of the bearings got stiff and caused an overload. That light duty fuse couldn't take it and did it's job. You may never have another problem again. I would not be in a hurry to get rid of it just yet. You were pretty happy with it up to this point so why not just use it and see how it does in the future? Just my opinion here but so far it hasn't cost anything to fix and now you know what to look for. I sure wouldn't give up my EX over a 15 cent fuse.

[William O Young]

1 hour ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

He said he did not use the saw for a long time. Sitting out in a shed in elements could have rusted the armature abit, stiffened the grease in the bearings, or a number of things. He tried spinning the motor by hand to get it to work so this may have freed things up. The fuse blew due to the extra current to try to start. These things can happen for people who have garage shops or shed shops and have tools that sit for long periods of time. This would be my educated guess.

I guess you missed in my previous post that I had said it had been in a warm heated shop the whole time.By heated I mean just above freezing  in the winter time except when I am going to work in there and I turn up the heat about an hour before time.

My shop is so dry that I sometimes  wonder if I should have a humidifier in there.

Of course the first thing before even checking the switch  was to put a screwdriver in the end of the motor shaft and even though it was free . I put a  screwdriver  bit in my cordless drill and spun it over for a while like that . I was aware of those dead spots  that I had to free up like that so many times back when I had my DeWalt and apparently this is the very same interchangeable 1.6 amp motor .

I have finished   doing a video  and am about to  upload it into you tube.. . .So stay tuned .I will post it when it finishes uploading 

[William O Young]

Here is the video I promised. Gosh , I was impressed with my new  upload speed of 300 mbps on both upload and download only too about 7 or 8 minutes to put that one in you tube  .

 

[teachnlearn]

19 hours ago, Scrappile said:

There is still the Hegner...... Mind just scroll away, year after year.... Now I know I just put a jinks on it. 

I guess my question is, what would cause the fuse to blow.  That would worry me.  I have had DeWalt, Excalibur and Seyco in that configuration of saws.... I have never had a fuse blow.. 

Glad you got it going. 

Would be a worry if the fuse keeps blowing. Combination of what the voltage was, since its really not stable, mgr of fuse, they crank these out its not a hand crafted item. Even the motor and blade hanging for a split second and blowing the fuse. Worth keeping a few around for any equipment. Unless you have a electronic supply, your project stops, for waiting for a fuse to be mailed. We have two old microwaves that are 25 years old, Once a year they blow a fuse. Its one of the replacements on the list along with other things to update. I still use a flip phone. RJF