Dead Excelsior Scroll Saw

[teachnlearn]

Is there a PayPal for a group think payment for fixing a blown fuse? Whats the going rate for each, cup of coffee or a beer?  RJF

[JimErn]

4 hours ago, octoolguy said:

If it were me, I might be tempted to bump that fuse up a bit. 3.5 amps is pretty light. Maybe a 7.5 amp would keep this from happening. If I'm wrong, I welcome the criticism.

Over fusing is a problem, it can cause a fire in the wiring.  The designers rate the fuse based on the amount of amps (current) going through in normal running, then they add a little for surges.  Increasing the amount of amps the fuse will handle before blowing, means it will be allowing too much current to flow, current flowing in wire creates heat, heat melts insulation, at some point it shorts out.  arcs & sparks or just the insulation on the wire bursting into flame - neither is good

[kmmcrafts]

2 minutes ago, JimErn said:

Over fusing is a problem, it can cause a fire in the wiring.  The designers rate the fuse based on the amount of amps (current) going through in normal running, then they add a little for surges.  Increasing the amount of amps the fuse will handle before blowing, means it will be allowing too much current to flow, current flowing in wire creates heat, heat melts insulation, at some point it shorts out.  arcs & sparks or just the insulation on the wire bursting into flame - neither is good

Reminds me of back in the day when my buddy kept blowing fuses in his car for the radio he installed..  He got tired of replacing the fuse so he took some aluminum foil and wrapped a fuse with it and put it back in.. said that would be the last fuse he'd have to put in. learn the trick from another buddy that was having taillight issues.. Well needless to say.. it sure was the last fuse ever to be replaced in that car.. within a few hours that car was pretty much burnt to the ground, 

[Wilson142]

4 minutes ago, JimErn said:

Over fusing is a problem, it can cause a fire in the wiring.  The designers rate the fuse based on the amount of amps (current) going through in normal running, then they add a little for surges.  Increasing the amount of amps the fuse will handle before blowing, means it will be allowing too much current to flow, current flowing in wire creates heat, heat melts insulation, at some point it shorts out.  arcs & sparks or just the insulation on the wire bursting into flame - neither is good

Like the good old days of  60 amp service in the house? Just stick a penny in and replace the fuse. lol I'd rather replace fuses than possibly a board. Then again I drive a dreaded Dewalt. I do miss my old Ryobi 15" with the quick change clamp. Glory days, I guess.

[Wilson142]

4 minutes ago, kmmcrafts said:

Reminds me of back in the day when my buddy kept blowing fuses in his car for the radio he installed..  He got tired of replacing the fuse so he took some aluminum foil and wrapped a fuse with it and put it back in.. said that would be the last fuse he'd have to put in. learn the trick from another buddy that was having taillight issues.. Well needless to say.. it sure was the last fuse ever to be replaced in that car.. within a few hours that car was pretty much burnt to the ground, 

I remember listening to one of those old radio show segments called "fact is stranger then fiction". Seems a couple of good ol' boys were out squirrel hunting and blew a fuse in their truck. They discovered a 22 cal shell was the right size and plugged one in to get home. As things got heated, the shell fired and hit one of them in a spot a little closer to home than was ideal. True? Who knows?

[William O Young]

2 minutes ago, kmmcrafts said:

Reminds me of back in the day when my buddy kept blowing fuses in his car for the radio he installed..  He got tired of replacing the fuse so he took some aluminum foil and wrapped a fuse with it and put it back in.. said that would be the last fuse he'd have to put in. learn the trick from another buddy that was having taillight issues.. Well needless to say.. it sure was the last fuse ever to be replaced in that car.. within a few hours that car was pretty much burnt to the ground, 

EXACTLY and in the case of the saw it would either fry the circuit board or the motor windings. I have been getting a chuckle from the ones that say to put in a heavier fuse.  And probably one or two more ins and outs of that flimsy little plastic fuse holder and it won't be possible to even get another fuse in there. You have to put one in and out to believe it  but I  hope you never have to . Why couldn't they have spent an extra 50 cents per saw and put in a  regular fuse holder that we are all familiar with and so easily serviced . 

Something caused that fuse to blow  and I am not going to  wait around to find out or even do any more sawing on it.  I won't even bolt it back to the table .  It will go up for sale first of the year  and of course used items are sold as is  with no warranty . . If it is running when  the new owner tries it out and buys it I can only wish him all the luck in the word with it and as soon as  I see his tail lights leaving the driveway I will delete my video . 

[fredfret]

I used to have a 50 amp fuse I used for troubleshooting power supplies, worked great.

[Scrappile]

@William O Young

That is good to know,,, I was just about to ask you how much you wanted for it,,,,, now I do not think I am interested...

Just kidding.  I really don't need another saw.  Two is enough for me..

Edited December 3, 2019 by Scrappile

[William O Young]

59 minutes ago, Scrappile said:

@William O Young

That is good to know,,, I was just about to ask you how much you wanted for it,,,,, now I do not think I am interested...

Just kidding.  I really don't need another saw.  Two is enough for me..

Yes , two sounds like  you have enough . Sometimes it's nice to have a spare  one or two and I know some that actually do . . .  .

I would never be able to sell it to anyone in the states  .The identical saw except  with the King name on it is 700 bucks on amazon.com plus $35.00  shipping to a US address. With Exchange rate for Canada  it would be  $992.00 in Canadian funds.  . . . Figure  just over $1000.00 when paying UPS their fee for anyone  picking it up  a parcel that size just over the border . Amazon.ca in Canada doesn't  stock i or sell it even though it is distributed by King Canada  . . . Figure that one out .  ?

I usually sell used equipment for half price  but with this one  so close to new I will hold firm at $600.00  cash picked up from my shop .Someone will surely buy it at a $400.00 discount  if they have been led to believe it is such an awesome make and model beforehand . Not by me but where they have read it elsewhere.  . . lol . . lol . . .

EDIT Just remembered . It would be subject to 12% BC taxes in order to bring it across the border into Canada so that makes it 1,120.00.

So  $600.00  with no taxes will seem like a real good buy locally for anyone that wants one of those . 

https://www.amazon.com/King-Industrial-Inch-Scroll-Saw/dp/B075NSG5RS/ref=sr_1_3_sspa?keywords=16"+excelsior+scroll+saw&qid=1575332590&sr=8-3-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzVTRKSzZVQTBLSVZXJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMzk2MTE1MkE0NVdTMk9HNVBDTCZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwOTA0NzI0SjFEVFIwVUZBUjdUJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfbXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

 

Edited December 3, 2019 by William O Young

[OCtoolguy]

2 hours ago, JimErn said:

Over fusing is a problem, it can cause a fire in the wiring.  The designers rate the fuse based on the amount of amps (current) going through in normal running, then they add a little for surges.  Increasing the amount of amps the fuse will handle before blowing, means it will be allowing too much current to flow, current flowing in wire creates heat, heat melts insulation, at some point it shorts out.  arcs & sparks or just the insulation on the wire bursting into flame - neither is good

I agree Jim. I was just thinking of a very small increment. If that fuse is a 2.5 amp, well maybe adding a couple more amps might help to get past a very cold machine trying to start up. I had a fuse one time that for some reason would blow. It was a circuit in one of our many cars. I think it might have been the wipers. I don't remember now. Anyway, it was a 7.5 amp. I replaced it with a 10 amp and never had the problem again. If I recall, the fuel pump was on the same circuit.

 

[Jim McDonald]

2 minutes ago, octoolguy said:

I agree Jim. I was just thinking of a very small increment. If that fuse is a 2.5 amp, well maybe adding a couple more amps might help to get past a very cold machine trying to start up. I had a fuse one time that for some reason would blow. It was a circuit in one of our many cars. I think it might have been the wipers. I don't remember now. Anyway, it was a 7.5 amp. I replaced it with a 10 amp and never had the problem again. If I recall, the fuel pump was on the same circuit.

 

If you do the math, adding a couple of amps to a 2.5 will effectively double the current needed to blow the fuse. Something else may let loose first. 

[OCtoolguy]

By the way, just to add more info to this subject, JT asked me to put a picture up of my saw. Well, I went out and did a closer inspection after that and after you found the fuse on your saw, I did a closer inspection of EX21. It was made in Canada by General in 2010. It too has the same fuse holder in the same place as yours. I will, at some point, remove the fuse just to see what type and size it is so that I can have a spare on hand. Luckily, I live where it never gets below 40 degrees and even that would be a rarity. I'm thinking seriously of taking my saw all apart and doing the synthetic grease job on all the bearings just to take away that drag when and if it ever does get cold. This has been a very interesting topic.

 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Talk about fuses, I thought that was a 5 amp fuse for them. Let me check again. Yep calls for a 5amp fuse according to the manual. 

Yea no matter weather warm or cold if the saw was operated before and then sat for a long period of time it could have grease solidify some or something. Maybe something else but that would have been my first guess. Could run that thing for 10 years and never have another fuse blow. 

Edited December 3, 2019 by JTTHECLOCKMAN

[OCtoolguy]

16 minutes ago, Jim McDonald said:

If you do the math, adding a couple of amps to a 2.5 will effectively double the current needed to blow the fuse. Something else may let loose first. 

Well, then I guess it might not be a good idea. Maybe it would solve the problem then to do the synthetic grease job on all the bearings. Then it might not have the drag upon starting. If that saw sat unused for as long as he said, even in a warm setting, the factory grease probably set up.

[kmmcrafts]

4 minutes ago, octoolguy said:

By the way, just to add more info to this subject, JT asked me to put a picture up of my saw. Well, I went out and did a closer inspection after that and after you found the fuse on your saw, I did a closer inspection of EX21. It was made in Canada by General in 2010. It too has the same fuse holder in the same place as yours. I will, at some point, remove the fuse just to see what type and size it is so that I can have a spare on hand. Luckily, I live where it never gets below 40 degrees and even that would be a rarity. I'm thinking seriously of taking my saw all apart and doing the synthetic grease job on all the bearings just to take away that drag when and if it ever does get cold. This has been a very interesting topic.

 

My old DeWalt used to surge and spit, sputter when it was 35F or less.. even with the synthetic grease.. I always hated to run it that way.. but orders have to be made for business reasons...  but after a couple minutes of running... it would warm up enough to run smooth.. Never blew a fuse.. never had to replace anything on that saw other than the one set of bearings & sleeves.. ran that saw hard production cutting for 10+ years.. I wish I had put an hour meter on that saw just to see how many ours are on it.. Based on the saws I have now with hour meters that I added to them back in march of this year.. Between all the saws I'm pushing close to 300 hours.. Some might say that's not too many hours.. for 9 months.. You'd be surprised at how much time you spend in the shop prepping for a project and then finishing a project.. also just how much time you spend with the saw off while doing a blade change etc.. I can spend 4-6 hours in the shop and barely get 2 hours on the saws clock.. I have my hour meters hooked up to the foot switch.. so I'm only clocking actual saw run times..  

None of my 3 Hawks have any cold weather issues.. nor does this China made Excalibur..  

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

18 minutes ago, octoolguy said:

By the way, just to add more info to this subject, JT asked me to put a picture up of my saw. Well, I went out and did a closer inspection after that and after you found the fuse on your saw, I did a closer inspection of EX21. It was made in Canada by General in 2010. It too has the same fuse holder in the same place as yours. I will, at some point, remove the fuse just to see what type and size it is so that I can have a spare on hand. Luckily, I live where it never gets below 40 degrees and even that would be a rarity. I'm thinking seriously of taking my saw all apart and doing the synthetic grease job on all the bearings just to take away that drag when and if it ever does get cold. This has been a very interesting topic.

 

I figured they were all the same. Now you know.

[OCtoolguy]

Just now, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

I figured they were all the same. Now you know.

It is strange that they HIDE that fuse. I've never seen one done that way. Except for Christmas lights. They always put the fuse inside of the plug or the female receptacle. I wonder if one of those itty bitty fuses is the same. I'm going to open mine up one of these days just to see what fuse it takes. There is not one word about a replacement fuse in the owner's manual. With the exception of the parts list and parts breakdown.

 

[William O Young]

13 minutes ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

Talk about fuses, I thought that was a 5 amp fuse for them. Let me check again. Yep calls for a 5amp fuse according to the manual. 

Yea no matter weather warm or cold if the saw was operated before and then sat for a long period of time it could have grease solidify some or something. Maybe something else but that would have been my first guess. Could run that thing for 10 years and never have another fuse blow. 

What make and model  and size  of saw are you referring to John. 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

16 minutes ago, William O Young said:

What make and model  and size  of saw are you referring to John. 

Yours Bill. In service manual it is listed as a 5amp and cost $6(now that is a rip off)

 

https://www.kingcanada.com/en/products/woodworking/scroll-saws/

Edited December 3, 2019 by JTTHECLOCKMAN

[William O Young]

3 minutes ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

Yours Bill

Whereabouts did you find it John ? .  Page number ? Yeah I know your eyes are probably better than mine .

Edited December 3, 2019 by William O Young

[kmmcrafts]

This is a screen shot of the Ex 16, 21 and 30 inch saws.. Note the fuse size on the last line at the bottom... it says 3.5A

 

NOTE This is for the Older saws before the China made ones..

Edited December 3, 2019 by kmmcrafts
Adding More Info

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

2 minutes ago, William O Young said:

Whereabouts did you find it.  Page number ? Yeah I know your eyes are probably better than mine .

http://files.kingcanada.com/catalog/products/servicemanualxm/KXL-16 service manual.pdf

4th page down part #38

[William O Young]

8 minutes ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

http://files.kingcanada.com/catalog/products/servicemanualxm/KXL-16 service manual.pdf

4th page down part #38

WOW , Kevin's  list says  3.15 like in my saw  and your King manual says 5 .

My manual is not King. It is Excelsior and no mention of fuse size anywhere   in it apart from it being #38 

This raises  even more concern for me. Were they blowing circuit  boards  with 5 amp for certain production  runs  of those machines and reduced it to 3 to prevent returns under warranty ? I am sure the manufacturer  would never explain the reason but at least I didn't get a blown out board by being over fused . 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

8 minutes ago, William O Young said:

WOW , Kevin's  list says  3.15 like in my saw  and your King manual says 5 .

My manual is not King. It is Excelsior and no mention of fuse size anywhere   in it apart from it being #38 

This raises  even more concern for me. Were they blowing circuit  boards  with 5 amp for certain production  runs  of those machines and reduced it to 3 to prevent returns under warranty ? I am sure the manufacturer  would never explain the reason but at least I didn't get a blown out board by being over fused . 

I could not answer that and have no knowledge of any of these saws. I think my work here is done. By the way what size fuse is used on the Dewalt?? Just checked 3 amps.

Edited December 3, 2019 by JTTHECLOCKMAN

[William O Young]

1 minute ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

I could not answer that and have no knowledge of any of these saws. I think my work here is done. By the way what size fuse is used on the Dewalt?? 

I have no idea what size fuse was in my DeWalt  or in the newer ones  because I never blew on e . Perhaps it was overfused and is why my board fried instead of popping the fuse .