Dead Excelsior Scroll Saw

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

There should be a rating on the old fuse so just match it. Unless it was a used saw then all bets are off. 

Boy Bill you know how to make an entry. 5 page thread

Edited December 3, 2019 by JTTHECLOCKMAN

[William O Young]

3 hours ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

There should be a rating on the old fuse so just match it. Unless it was a used saw then all bets are off. 

Boy Bill you know how to make an entry. 5 page thread

   

[JimErn]

10 hours ago, Jim McDonald said:

If you do the math, adding a couple of amps to a 2.5 will effectively double the current needed to blow the fuse. Something else may let loose first. 

Odd my Ex-21 manual calls it out as being, 3.15 amp, 20x5 mm glass fuse

my parts manual is listed as version 8, rev 2, May 05/13

 

EDIT - @Jim McDonald my apologies, I did not click your post to quote, but the forum did it anyway

Late to the party again - I am going to have to remember to read the whole damn thread before responding

Edited December 3, 2019 by JimErn

[JimErn]

10 hours ago, Jim McDonald said:

You did not say anything, the damn forum is stuck, it keeps putting this quote up and I can't delete it - arrrg

On another note, if you source that strange fuse and buy it, you will never need it - Jim's corollary to Murphy's Law

[Jim McDonald]

That's funny, because I did not say anything else.  As a matter of fact, when that last quote was pasted, I was in a meeting and not on my device(s). Don't know where that quote attributed to me came from.

(The only time I use ARRG is "Talk Like a Pirate Day"

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Just to put a bow on this and to let Bill know that the King and the Excellsior are the exact same saw rebranded and here is the proof. The Vice President of King Corp. was talking. This snipet also explains the origin and trail of all the excalibur saws. I also included the entire link if you want to read the rest. It does explain alot and takes some of the guessing out of these origin of saws. Boy I did alot of homework on a saw that I do not own or even saw. The only Excalibur I tried out was the EX30 when they first came out. I did not like them then and probably still wouldn't like it. I do not even like my Dewalt788. 

Scroll down to where it says in action.

https://scrollsawer.com/2018/03/07/product-review-its-good-to-be-king/

Edited December 3, 2019 by JTTHECLOCKMAN

[Scrappile]

Pretty much the same article right here on this site in the "Resources - How-to & Articles" section.

[William O Young]

7 hours ago, JimErn said:

On another note, if you source that strange fuse and buy it, you will never need it - Jim's corollary to Murphy's Law

Nobody has to be concerned about ordering or stocking  such a simple  thing as a little glass fuse . Every auto parts store  carries just about any size and types  imaginable and most of them are open seven days a week .Even  in my small town one of the is open all day  every  Sunday .

[teachnlearn]

20 hours ago, JimErn said:

Over fusing is a problem, it can cause a fire in the wiring.  The designers rate the fuse based on the amount of amps (current) going through in normal running, then they add a little for surges.  Increasing the amount of amps the fuse will handle before blowing, means it will be allowing too much current to flow, current flowing in wire creates heat, heat melts insulation, at some point it shorts out.  arcs & sparks or just the insulation on the wire bursting into flame - neither is good

Absolutely. This goes back to screw in fuse in houses and someone putting a penny in the socket rather than a fuse. I design electronic automation. The wires and components all have a rating of the amount of amps they will carry. In houses and commercial buildings the max amp a fuse can be rated is for the size wire, electronic engineers do take into account number of outlets, electronics or single appliance on a circuit.  There are charts on line with the size wire, and length and how many amps it will carry. As the current goes up the wire gets hot, just like a electric coil on a stove. Running light weight extension cord under a rug and adding adapters to plug umpteen plugs leads to a very unhappy year with a burnt down house. When extensive computers and electronic devices are fused, they are trying to protect the components themselves. I grew up learning to troubleshoot the little components on boards. Manufactures have decided its cheaper to sell the whole board at  high markup price, so when you over fuse and there is a surge in the electronics, there goes the cost of a whole new board.

After the military messed me up, I can't work a whole day, so I tinker at home and still receive the electronic engineering mags. Its a common repeated article of our country's old, overloaded power grid. Companies don't want to invest in the grid, so they pull the profit and leave it age. Our country is hungry for power with every electronic gadget we buy, the is no increase in the power grid. Unless there is a major overhaul expect more power outage and fluctuation of voltage. I don't buy anything electronic and pricey without a surge protector bar. Anything pricey in your house or shop,, buy top quality surge protector and use them. Get a high rating. Think of them like having a batch of extension cords around. When you plug in a expensive electronics, have a surge protector on hand and plug it in before.

I have read enough articles I am saving for a whole house generator. Unless there is a major rehab of the grid, there will be more and longer power outages. across the country. RJF

Edited December 3, 2019 by teachnlearn

[William O Young]

4 hours ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

Just to put a bow on this and to let Bill know that the King and the Excellsior are the exact same saw rebranded and here is the proof. The Vice President of King Corp. was talking. This snipet also explains the origin and trail of all the excalibur saws. I also included the entire link if you want to read the rest. It does explain alot and takes some of the guessing out of these origin of saws. Boy I did alot of homework on a saw that I do not own or even saw. The only Excalibur I tried out was the EX30 when they first came out. I did not like them then and probably still wouldn't like it. I do not even like my Dewalt788. 

Scroll down to where it says in action.

https://scrollsawer.com/2018/03/07/product-review-its-good-to-be-king/

That was a good read John. There will always be a lot of sales propaganda on any make and model of anything..I got a chuckle reading about how good the blade holders were .Why do you think so many are replacing them with the Pegas holders. I was pleased to see he was truthful about the dust collector.Like he said , it suckes the wood  down to the table so it can't be turned and it plugs up with dust. I took that thing off  in the first week and made my own which I also made a video of. Problem with that mess of a dust collector system they tried was that it left  a whole  bunch of  not only useless  holes  but  they are in close enough to the tmain center hole  that they can interrupt with top feeding .With top feeding you move  the wood to where you think the center hole is in the table .If you are off a little , you gently push  downward on the blade and move it a little until it drops through. Quite often I would have the blade drop through one of those useless dust collector hole and of course had to be taken back out and repositioned into the  bigger hole in the center. Do you think they are going to send everyone a new table with just the one hole in the center  like all other makes and models after sending them out with a botched up mess of a table  right down to  their paint job  on the table that looks horrible after a few hours of use .   ? ? ? ? Don't hold your breath .

[William O Young]

3 minutes ago, teachnlearn said:

Absolutely. This goes back to screw in fuse in houses and someone putting a penny in the socket rather than a fuse. I design electronic automation. The wires and components all have a rating of the amount of amps they will carry. In houses and commercial buildings the max amp a fuse can be rated is for the size wire, electronic engineers do take into account number of outlets, electronics or single appliance on a circuit.  There are charts on line with the size wire, and length and how many amps it will carry. As the current goes up the wire gets hot, just like a electric coil on a stove. Running light weight extension cord under a rug and adding adapters to plug umpteen plugs leads to a very unhappy year with a burnt down house. When extensive computers and electronic devices are fused, they are trying to protect the components themselves. I grew up learning to troubleshoot the little components on boards. Manufactures have decided its cheaper to sell the whole board at  high markup price, so when you over fuse and there is a surge in the electronics, there goes the cost of a whole new board.

I totally agree with everything you said there .Some like you and I understand that but your message was well explained and will be helpful to some that may not be aware of the facts . 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

The one thing in his statement that he is not stating about surge protectors, they are good for the occasional power company surge but useless against lightning strikes. It will blow right past those wall surge protectors so be aware of that too. 

For lightning protection, a whole house good grade surge protector installed at the panel is your best shot.

Edited December 3, 2019 by JTTHECLOCKMAN

[teachnlearn]

With the power of lighting I will agree a surge protector isn't going to stop it. One guy does a sample calculation of how powerful lighting and figure is powering houses. With that kind of power, I doubt any little box has a chance. I'll leave the actual figure a mystery and let everyone scroll through the webpage. RJF

https://www.windpowerengineering.com/how-much-power-in-a-bolt-of-lightning/

[JimErn]

15 hours ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

The one thing in his statement that he is not stating about surge protectors, they are good for the occasional power company surge but useless against lightning strikes. It will blow right past those wall surge protectors so be aware of that too. 

For lightning protection, a whole house good grade surge protector installed at the panel is your best shot.

Thanks for the chuckle this morning JT, when I read lightning strike  used synonymous with power company surge that  made me chuckle. 

[OCtoolguy]

This comment is directed at the original poster. I just wanted to clear up something that you said regarding the "cheap" table on your Excelsior. I'm not sure what you got with your saw but on my Ex21, the table is made of a piece of flat steel with a silver/gray powder coated surface. I tested it with a magnet after your comment regarding your saw. If yours has an aluminum table, that would have to be one of the ways that they "cheaped out". And as far as the paint scratching and wearing off, I've not experienced that at all. I realize how unhappy you are with your saw and I completely understand that you want to sell it and be rid of it but I would greatly suggest that you keep your eyes open for a good used Ex16 or Ex21. I think you will find a great difference over what you have now.

 

[dgman]

1 minute ago, octoolguy said:

This comment is directed at the original poster. I just wanted to clear up something that you said regarding the "cheap" table on your Excelsior. I'm not sure what you got with your saw but on my Ex21, the table is made of a piece of flat steel with a silver/gray powder coated surface. I tested it with a magnet after your comment regarding your saw. If yours has an aluminum table, that would have to be one of the ways that they "cheaped out". And as far as the paint scratching and wearing off, I've not experienced that at all. I realize how unhappy you are with your saw and I completely understand that you want to sell it and be rid of it but I would greatly suggest that you keep your eyes open for a good used Ex16 or Ex21. I think you will find a great difference over what you have now.

 

Ray, he wants sell it because he getting out of the business!

[OCtoolguy]

1 minute ago, dgman said:

Ray, he wants sell it because he getting out of the business!

Are you speaking of William O Young? I must have missed that. I swear I heard him say that he would love to have his old saw back. And, I never realized he was in business anyway. Where did I go wrong? Did you watch his video on his review of the Excelsior? He made a very big point of downgrading the table. That's what I am talking about.

 

[kmmcrafts]

I wouldn't say a aluminum table cheapens up a saw... it's just the table.. LOL... in some peoples opinions.. the aluminum is a upgrade because if you leave it sit overnight without a protective coat of wax it's not going to rust by the next morning / week / year...  Some of the top of the line saws have aluminum tables as I understand it.. Hegners ( some of them ) have aluminum tables.. as do the Hawks.. Might depend on the grade of aluminum too... The Hawk saws I believe are almost completely out of heavy aluminum.. I say heavy because they weigh in at around 120 lbs. and mostly made of aluminum, LOL.. Imagine the weight of that thing if it were steel, LOL.. I believe the arms on the old Deltas are aluminum as well as the arms on a Hegner and many other saws.. 

I believe Ray is correct about the table being steel on the saw though... Even my cheep China made Excalibur has a steel table.. 

[jerrye]

On 12/3/2019 at 2:55 PM, teachnlearn said:

Its a common repeated article of our country's old, overloaded power grid. Companies don't want to invest in the grid, so they pull the profit and leave it age. Our country is hungry for power with every electronic gadget we buy, the is no increase in the power grid. Unless there is a major overhaul expect more power outage and fluctuation of voltage.

I have read enough articles I am saving for a whole house generator. Unless there is a major rehab of the grid, there will be more and longer power outages. across the country. RJF

Since this thread has been hijacked a few times already, I'll add to it...besides, I've been looking for someone with real experience and knowledge to ask.

With your experience teachnlearn, what would happen to the current grid if, say, 20% or so of ICE cars were replaced with battery electrics?

Edited December 6, 2019 by jerrye

[teachnlearn]

Battery cars are going to be a problem for the grid. The power companies and 'use to be the government scientist', monitors power usage, then between engineers, accountants for cost projections and math folks for statistics they project future demand.  How many electric cars sold? What is there cost, if its high, few will buy.

Selling lower power lighting reduces some of that demand. Expansion of industry usage or decrease of industry use also has to be figured. Even climate change has to be figured in. Areas colder, more heat use, areas warmer, more air conditioning. The grid is stressed now with lower voltage 'brown outs', surges 'over voltage' and old equipment blowing out leaving the power out.

Its a design problem that means more money put in. Build more regional power plants? Build more high tension power lines to move more electricity across the country? Put windmills in the ocean? Put wave generators in the ocean? Those two are being used by other countries.

I have to state engineering has specialties. Electrical engineers, Civil, Structural...It goes on and with in each specialty are more specialties.Electrical Engineering has people just designing antennas and even more special of microwave antennas. Electrical Engineers handle areas of the power grid. All engineers get a group of basics in college, then branch. I decided to go in as a Electronics Engineer and went on to specialize with automation and artificial intelligence, which has varied from designs on large arms putting cars together to putting small electronic parts in circuit boards by using 'arms' and video cameras. Also design robotics for the military and medical for surgery and have done free design to automate for disability. Right now everything is in storage.

I subscribe to electronic engineering magazines and their 'lists' have added me on the a whole group of science magazines. With the grid being stressed, I've received many articles on what it is now and what may happen in the future. As a Electronics Engineer I have to not only design not only the equipment, but what the power will do to it. Say a TV is designed, if the designer only has circuits that are powered for exactly 120 volts and the voltage goes up or down either the picture fades and brightens, the volume barely works and the remote sometimes works. Everyone is unhappy cause they bought a lemon TV. The designers have to add in more cost for circuits that will keep the TV going when the voltage is bouncing. If the voltage goes too high even for the circuits, one fried TV. Engineering articles try to project what problems are coming up and possible solutions.

I design as both a end user of the power grid and a semi involved member being asked, 'Is there anything that a Electronics Engineer can do to design lower power devices, or better control circuits for the power grid?" My engineering knowledge is by no means complete on the power grid. RJF

Edited December 6, 2019 by teachnlearn

[kmmcrafts]

2 hours ago, teachnlearn said:

Battery cars are going to be a problem for the grid. The power companies and 'use to be the government scientist', monitors power usage, then between engineers, accountants for cost projections and math folks for statistics they project future demand.  How many electric cars sold? What is there cost, if its high, few will buy.

Selling lower power lighting reduces some of that demand. Expansion of industry usage or decrease of industry use also has to be figured. Even climate change has to be figured in. Areas colder, more heat use, areas warmer, more air conditioning. The grid is stressed now with lower voltage 'brown outs', surges 'over voltage' and old equipment blowing out leaving the power out.

Its a design problem that means more money put in. Build more regional power plants? Build more high tension power lines to move more electricity across the country? Put windmills in the ocean? Put wave generators in the ocean? Those two are being used by other countries.

I have to state engineering has specialties. Electrical engineers, Civil, Structural...It goes on and with in each specialty are more specialties.Electrical Engineering has people just designing antennas and even more special of microwave antennas. Electrical Engineers handle areas of the power grid. All engineers get a group of basics in college, then branch. I decided to go in as a Electronics Engineer and went on to specialize with automation and artificial intelligence, which has varied from designs on large arms putting cars together to putting small electronic parts in circuit boards by using 'arms' and video cameras. Also design robotics for the military and medical for surgery and have done free design to automate for disability. Right now everything is in storage.

I subscribe to electronic engineering magazines and their 'lists' have added me on the a whole group of science magazines. With the grid being stressed, I've received many articles on what it is now and what may happen in the future. As a Electronics Engineer I have to not only design not only the equipment, but what the power will do to it. Say a TV is designed, if the designer only has circuits that are powered for exactly 120 volts and the voltage goes up or down either the picture fades and brightens, the volume barely works and the remote sometimes works. Everyone is unhappy cause they bought a lemon TV. The designers have to add in more cost for circuits that will keep the TV going when the voltage is bouncing. If the voltage goes too high even for the circuits, one fried TV. Engineering articles try to project what problems are coming up and possible solutions.

I design as both a end user of the power grid and a semi involved member being asked, 'Is there anything that a Electronics Engineer can do to design lower power devices, or better control circuits for the power grid?" My engineering knowledge is by no means complete on the power grid. RJF

I think I need to invest into a treadle scroll saw after reading all this.. when the power goes out here.. man it's sure quiet.. and seems like nothing to do.. 

[OCtoolguy]

1 hour ago, kmmcrafts said:

I think I need to invest into a treadle scroll saw after reading all this.. when the power goes out here.. man it's sure quiet.. and seems like nothing to do.. 

Spent some of that cash you have laying around on a good 7500 watt genny.

 

[teachnlearn]

1 hour ago, kmmcrafts said:

I think I need to invest into a treadle scroll saw after reading all this.. when the power goes out here.. man it's sure quiet.. and seems like nothing to do.. 

Get a treandle scroll saw and hook a bicycle to it. Then advertise free bike rides to the neighborhood kids. RJF

[teachnlearn]

One problem with the grid is everything is getting old and demanding money. Highways, bridges, school buildings, trains, and the Infrastructure Bill sits. People need health care, there are still people including vets that are homeless, more unemployed and less money for food from the government. Every year the needs out weight the money and drive to get things done. So the electrical grid gets older and older year by year and put off for another year. IF nothing is done, eventually there will be power failures, like an old car that rusts a bit more every year.

Not intended to bring just bad news. I see these articles surface every year, its commonly known in the power industry. There is always those out their working every day to paste it together, there just isn't a major push to put in newer better material. There are many dedicated power company people working round the clock trying to keep it together. The present projections is if it continues to have nothing done, better have different power sources for more frequent power outages. This just didn't happen now, its been written about for at least 15 years that I have read of it.  RJF

Edited December 6, 2019 by teachnlearn

[jerrye]

5 hours ago, teachnlearn said:

All engineers get a group of basics in college, then branch. I decided to go in as a Electronics Engineer and went on to specialize with automation and artificial intelligence, which has varied from designs on large arms putting cars together to putting small electronic parts in circuit boards by using 'arms' and video cameras. Also design robotics for the military and medical for surgery and have done free design to automate for disability. Right now everything is in storage.

Are you IEEE? My father in law is a life fellow.