Dead Excelsior Scroll Saw

[OCtoolguy]

46 minutes ago, William O Young said:

I am quite positive it would not be the brushes. That saw has between 20 and 25 hours of use since brand new out of the box.

When I mentioned I was a certified TV technician way back , I meant way back in the 50 and 60s when it was all vacuum tubes .All the techs subscribed to schematic diagrams that came out on every  month  by mail  on the various make and models .Now that it is all solid state it is usually just a case of replacing boards rather than hand wiring in the defective components that used to be mostly resistors , capacitors and diodes  if the tubes still tested good on tube teters . Circuit tracing my saw without a schematic diagram  and with just my volt/ohm meter would be difficult to do without knowing exactly what voltage should be at various locations and where it switched from AC input  to DC on that DC motor .  and no oscilloscope now to check waveforms like back then . Whenever I do get around to pulling the back end apart  to take the circuit board out . . if I can not find an open fuse to replace then it is pretty well a case of ordering a new board because it would be too hard to find the defective part on it unless a case of visibly burnt .

Then , getting a new board is no guarantee of a fix and of course electronic boards are not returnable . 

Pardon me if there are some typos in my message. I just got back from the hospital in the closest city  (250 km round trip) getting my monthly injections in both eyes .It's no picnic but it sure beats the alternative  . . .lol . . . I am typing  with dark sunglasses on because the monitor is too bright for dilated eyes even though the freezing is almost all out by now. 

BTW . . . if anyone here can find the price of both the board and the motor for that saw could you please  post it here .They will be the same for the three different models with the only difference being the size of the table and the length of the top and bottom arms. . . . .I have not found anything on line yet and someone from the states checking it out would save me the price of long distance calls from Canada .

 

Call Seyco tomorrow. Best advice. Parts are not as expensive as Hawk or Hegner, I'm sure. The fuse is there to protect that board, isn't it?

[dgman]

Hey Bill, have you tried contacting the distributor? They should be able to tell you where the fuse is. Also, I noticed in the parts diagram that the cord set is removable. That’s one more thing to check before you have to dissect the saw. Good luck!

[tomsteve]

21 hours ago, octoolguy said:

Well, the actual rheostat is on the arm by the off/on switch is why I asked. If it's something wrong on the board, that would be the expensive part.

thats the one part ive had to replace on my ex 16. saw just stopped running.

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

If it is a knock off of the excaliber then look under the chord where it plugs into the saw. The fuse on those is under there.  Wonder who this guy is??

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvoTHxs3IrU

Edited December 1, 2019 by JTTHECLOCKMAN

[kmmcrafts]

1 hour ago, William O Young said:

I am quite positive it would not be the brushes. That saw has between 20 and 25 hours of use since brand new out of the box.

When I mentioned I was a certified TV technician way back , I meant way back in the 50 and 60s when it was all vacuum tubes .All the techs subscribed to schematic diagrams that came out on every  month  by mail  on the various make and models .Now that it is all solid state it is usually just a case of replacing boards rather than hand wiring in the defective components that used to be mostly resistors , capacitors and diodes  if the tubes still tested good on tube teters . Circuit tracing my saw without a schematic diagram  and with just my volt/ohm meter would be difficult to do without knowing exactly what voltage should be at various locations and where it switched from AC input  to DC on that DC motor .  and no oscilloscope now to check waveforms like back then . Whenever I do get around to pulling the back end apart  to take the circuit board out . . if I can not find an open fuse to replace then it is pretty well a case of ordering a new board because it would be too hard to find the defective part on it unless a case of visibly burnt .

Then , getting a new board is no guarantee of a fix and of course electronic boards are not returnable . 

Pardon me if there are some typos in my message. I just got back from the hospital in the closest city  (250 km round trip) getting my monthly injections in both eyes .It's no picnic but it sure beats the alternative  . . .lol . . . I am typing  with dark sunglasses on because the monitor is too bright for dilated eyes even though the freezing is almost all out by now. 

BTW . . . if anyone here can find the price of both the board and the motor for that saw could you please  post it here .They will be the same for the three different models with the only difference being the size of the table and the length of the top and bottom arms. . . . .I have not found anything on line yet and someone from the states checking it out would save me the price of long distance calls from Canada .

 

The speed control switch ( assuming  rheostat) is priced at $31.55..

The board runs $69.03

Motor is $195.00

Parts list for the excalibur so I do not know for certain these are the exact same part... Ray could tell you probably.. Here is the parts list with prices etc from his website...

https://www.seyco.com/partspage/

 

Hope this helps you out.. Also hoping you don't need to spend a fortune to get the thing up and running,

[OCtoolguy]

47 minutes ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

If it is a knock off of the excaliber then look under the chord where it plugs into the saw. The fuse on those is under there.  Wonder who this guy is??

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvoTHxs3IrU

Thanks John, I had no idea that this person had any notariety of any sort. Now, I know who he is and of his many talents. By the way, it's time for you to start showing up a bit more often now.

 

[OCtoolguy]

I just went out to my shop and looked at my EX21. I could see no fuse or fuse holder anywhere on it. I looked at the original manual that came with it and it does show a fuse right at the connector for the power cord. But, if there is a fuse, it must be inside. I guess if you remove the black plastic cover that goes all the way from the top to the bottom around the rear of the saw, it must be under there. The book says absolutely nothing regarding the replacement of the fuse. They must have wanted the owner to have to contact them for service one the warranty had expired. SAD!

 

[rash_powder]

Will, I should go open up the control panel on my Craftsman.  I know not the same, but I bet the controller is the same just a different layout.  My bet is its a SCR with a full-bridge rectifier behind it.  There may be some noise suppression and filters after the rectifier.  I can't say for sure, thats just the simplest way to do it.  It could also be a PWM controller, in which case yes you will need a schematic.  

Those TV schematics you were talking about, we threw away two file drawers full of them at the power company I work for a few years ago.  Ya, a power company.  Seems the electronic techs were fixing EVERYTHING for everyone back then.  It is quite sad too that everything is throw away now.  

Maybe check with a local school and see if there isn't an electronics class looking for some hands-on troublshooting or the like.  Bet you get it fixed for parts then, and electronic components are quite cheap!

[William O Young]

5 hours ago, octoolguy said:

Call Seyco tomorrow. Best advice. Parts are not as expensive as Hawk or Hegner, I'm sure. The fuse is there to protect that board, isn't it?

Do you have a phone number ?

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Every photo I have seen for Excellsior and excalibur have the fuse block directly underneath the plug that connects to the saw and the photos are from 2017. Maybe the earlier ones did not have this but I know the Dewalts and Excaliburs had them. 

I can not find a manual online that shows that fuse #30. If someone has a link maybe I can figure it out. 

Found a manual Looks like the fuse is part of the chord socket. I would take the chord out of socket and look behind it to see if that is where the fuse is. If not see if you can pry the socket out and see if the fuse is behind the entire socket. It says #38 goes into #37 The fuse will always be before any controls or any boards. It should be right after the power chord. Has to be. It is protecting the entire saw. Follow the power chord and you will find the fuse.

https://www.kingcanada.com/en/products/woodworking/scroll-saws/

 

Edited December 2, 2019 by JTTHECLOCKMAN

[teachnlearn]

On 11/30/2019 at 4:03 PM, William O Young said:

I totally agree .I sure am kicking myself for selling that saw just because I no longer  had room for it in my 10 x 10 shop when I was getting heavier into turning and buying specialty tools for that . They were built like a tank and made to last through generations .I put 20 times the hours on my P-20 than I did on the DeWalt that it replaced  and it was working like the day I bought it when I sold it.  Too bad they discontinued making it but the real reason they did was that they didn't want to cheapen it down and farm it out to Chinese quality  cutters  like so many other  manufacturers did that are now riding on their previous good name alone . 

 

7 hours ago, William O Young said:

I am quite positive it would not be the brushes. That saw has between 20 and 25 hours of use since brand new out of the box.

When I mentioned I was a certified TV technician way back , I meant way back in the 50 and 60s when it was all vacuum tubes .All the techs subscribed to schematic diagrams that came out on every  month  by mail  on the various make and models .Now that it is all solid state it is usually just a case of replacing boards rather than hand wiring in the defective components that used to be mostly resistors , capacitors and diodes  if the tubes still tested good on tube teters . Circuit tracing my saw without a schematic diagram  and with just my volt/ohm meter would be difficult to do without knowing exactly what voltage should be at various locations and where it switched from AC input  to DC on that DC motor .  and no oscilloscope now to check waveforms like back then . Whenever I do get around to pulling the back end apart  to take the circuit board out . . if I can not find an open fuse to replace then it is pretty well a case of ordering a new board because it would be too hard to find the defective part on it unless a case of visibly burnt .

Then , getting a new board is no guarantee of a fix and of course electronic boards are not returnable . 

Pardon me if there are some typos in my message. I just got back from the hospital in the closest city  (250 km round trip) getting my monthly injections in both eyes .It's no picnic but it sure beats the alternative  . . .lol . . . I am typing  with dark sunglasses on because the monitor is too bright for dilated eyes even though the freezing is almost all out by now. 

BTW . . . if anyone here can find the price of both the board and the motor for that saw could you please  post it here .They will be the same for the three different models with the only difference being the size of the table and the length of the top and bottom arms. . . . .I have not found anything on line yet and someone from the states checking it out would save me the price of long distance calls from Canada .

 

Once you hit a transformer the winding is going to take it down to at least 48 vac If not much lower. Keep your meter setting  high and drop down. The speed control dial is going to be a variable resistor, can be checked using ohm scale and watching it vary. Voltage out of a board would more than likely be DC. Keep the scale high and drop down. Jumpering across the motor is going to give you if its getting voltage. If there is voltage there and you can vary it, then the motor is getting the voltage. I started my electronics with vacuum tubes and a VOM, it you still have one of those they are durable, use to get SAMS circuits in the STATES.  Fixed a lot of tvs that the neighborhood sent the kid. Never figured out what my parents got when the tvs and stereos were returned fixed. Someone maybe able to give you the voltage off of their scrollsaw. I've got a Craftsman, or I would do it for you. RJF

[teachnlearn]

15 minutes ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

Every photo I have seen for Excellsior and excalibur have the fuse block directly underneath the plug that connects to the saw and the photos are from 2017. Maybe the earlier ones did not have this but I know the Dewalts and Excaliburs had them. 

I can not find a manual online that shows that fuse #30. If someone has a link maybe I can figure it out. 

Found a manual Looks like the fuse is part of the chord socket. I would take the chord out of socket and look behind it to see if that is where the fuse is. If not see if you can pry the socket out and see if the fuse is behind the entire socket. It says #38 goes into #37 The fuse will always be before any controls or any boards. It should be right after the power chord. Has to be. It is protecting the entire saw. Follow the power chord and you will find the fuse.

Probably worth digging into, its always the first time of taking it apart to see how it ticks. Its backwards design not to put in an accessible fuse holder. Most of the Radio Shacks have died, but it would be cheap for the manufacture to mail a fues. Its not like they go in one direction. RJF

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

5 minutes ago, teachnlearn said:

Probably worth digging into, its always the first time of taking it apart to see how it ticks. Its backwards design not to put in an accessible fuse holder. Most of the Radio Shacks have died, but it would be cheap for the manufacture to mail a fues. Its not like they go in one direction. RJF

You always start at power source. From outlet to saw. If you have a footswitch, eliminate that. Never go diving into a control board if you do not know what you are doing. The diagrams I am looking at for all these type clone saws show an external fuse black. Maybe disguised but there. Those that have an excaliber where is the fuse on your saw??

Edited December 2, 2019 by JTTHECLOCKMAN

[William O Young]

22 minutes ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

Every photo I have seen for Excellsior and excalibur have the fuse block directly underneath the plug that connects to the saw and the photos are from 2017. Maybe the earlier ones did not have this but I know the Dewalts and Excaliburs had them. 

I can not find a manual online that shows that fuse #30. If someone has a link maybe I can figure it out. 

Found a manual Looks like the fuse is part of the chord socket. I would take the chord out of socket and look behind it to see if that is where the fuse is. If not see if you can pry the socket out and see if the fuse is behind the entire socket. It says #38 goes into #37 The fuse will always be before any controls or any boards. It should be right after the power chord. Has to be. It is protecting the entire saw. Follow the power chord and you will find the fuse.

Hey John . Nice to see you on here my friend.We have had some differences on certain topics over the years but I still consider you as a friend.

You have put a different slant on where that elusive fuse could be.I will check out your advice and see if it applies to my saw. Bitter cold here and my shop is unheated so if I don't check that tonight I will turn on the heat and check it tomorrow. It is after 7.00 PM here as I am typing this .

Would be wonderful if your suggestion became a reality .

 

[teachnlearn]

2 minutes ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

You always start at power source. From outlet to saw. If you have a footswitch, eliminate that. Never go diving into a control board if you do not know what you are doing. The diagrams I am looking at for all these type clone saws show an external fuse black. Maybe disguised but there. Those that have an excaliber where is the fuse on your saw??

He did write he did tv servicing. He has to know voltage and amps even it was from the vac tube days. If the fuse isn't visable, he going to have to pull the cover panels. I mentioned looking at fused cords. If its not there then its covered or soldered in line. Basic circuit tracing, follow the power. Most aren't going to trace discrete components. My background was designing electronics and consulting. I don't expect him to troubleshoot the board, but if it has power in and no power out, that greatly narrows whats wrong. RJF

[teachnlearn]

6 minutes ago, William O Young said:

Hey John . Nice to see you on here my friend.We have had some differences on certain topics over the years but I still consider you as a friend.

You have put a different slant on where that elusive fuse could be.I will check out your advice and see if it applies to my saw. Bitter cold here and my shop is unheated so if I don't check that tonight I will turn on the heat and check it tomorrow. It is after 7.00 PM here as I am typing this .

Would be wonderful if your suggestion became a reality .

 

If the shop is too cold, get help and drag it inside. Not a time to be cold and shaking and messing with electricity. If its the fuse, it could be ohmed or a audio beep if you meter does that. Hopefully you will be looking at a glass fuse and see its shot. RJF

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

39 minutes ago, teachnlearn said:

He did write he did tv servicing. He has to know voltage and amps even it was from the vac tube days. If the fuse isn't visable, he going to have to pull the cover panels. I mentioned looking at fused cords. If its not there then its covered or soldered in line. Basic circuit tracing, follow the power. Most aren't going to trace discrete components. My background was designing electronics and consulting. I don't expect him to troubleshoot the board, but if it has power in and no power out, that greatly narrows whats wrong. RJF

My point was for others incase they are reading this too and run into this problem. Bill has dabbled in everything believe me. Let him get a video up and he will sing a song or two while playing his guitar. 

[William O Young]

Hey John (JT) You da man tonight .
i knew I would wonder all might about your suggestion if I had not gone out  in the cold and checked it so I did. You were right. There IS a replaceable fuse in that saw  and it is where you said it should be. Anybody just looking at where the cord plugs in would never have noticed or guessed that there is a  tiny removable plastic  panel directly below the plug. It even shows a picture of a fuse in the molded plastic.Hard to get off but I pried  it out with a pocket knife . The whole little  plastic  retainer pops out and it has a miniature fuse in it. . I took it out and while it didn't look open , I checked it with my  ohm meter and indeed it was open . I do have a box of various fuses from way back and was lucky to have a replacement. Put it in the retainer and pushed it back into the slot  . .Then  hit the switch and the saw fired up .I was so happy to see that and I thank you very much for your suggestion.

I will still be selling that saw early in the new year after finding it is a clone of a Dewalt  in disguise with a a few added features .I will never trust a DeWalt scroll saw in my shop after all the hell myself and  so many others  have gone through with them in the past. I will get rid of it while I am ahead and at least I don't have to add expensive parts before I do . 

Where the saw is placed in my tiny 10 x 10 shop i was not able to get my camera in there to take a picture  but I will unbolt it from it's wooden stand tomorrow and turn it around and try to get a very close up shot of where the  fuse holder is so it might help out someone else in the future. I have never seen a fuse placed in a place like that ever before on anything. 

Thanks again . You made my day  . . .err . . .night. . . .well , both . 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

12 minutes ago, William O Young said:

Hey John (JT) You da man tonight .
i knew I would wonder all might about your suggestion if I had not gone out  in the cold and checked it so I did. You were right. There IS a replaceable fuse in that saw  and it is where you said it should be. Anybody just looking at where the cord plugs in would never have noticed or guessed that there is a  tiny removable plastic  panel directly below the plug. It even shows a picture of a fuse in the molded plastic.Hard to get off but I pried  it out with a pocket knife . The whole little  plastic  retainer pops out and it has a miniature fuse in it. . I took it out and while it didn't look open , I checked it with my  ohm meter and indeed it was open . I do have a box of various fuses from way back and was lucky to have a replacement. Put it in the retainer and pushed it back into the slot  . .Then  hit the switch and the saw fired up .I was so happy to see that and I thank you very much for your suggestion.

I will still be selling that saw early in the new year after finding it is a clone of a Dewalt  in disguise with a a few added features .I will never trust a DeWalt scroll saw in my shop after all the hell myself and  so many others  have gone through with them in the past. I will get rid of it while I am ahead and at least I don't have to add expensive parts before I do . 

Where the saw is placed in my tiny 10 x 10 shop i was not able to get my camera in there to take a picture  but I will unbolt it from it's wooden stand tomorrow and turn it around and try to get a very close up shot of where the  fuse holder is so it might help out someone else in the future. I have never seen a fuse placed in a place like that ever before on anything. 

Thanks again . You made my day  . . .err . . .night. . . .well , both . 

Oh be careful about downplaying the Dewalt saw here. There are people that truely love them and they get brought up all the time. I myself was a huge RBI guy as you probably remember but like with everything when they sold the business they went down hill and I do not recommend an RBI to anyone any more. Seems like the new player which it too is another clone of the Dewalt/ Excalibur,  is the Pegas. 

By the way glad it worked out.

Edited December 2, 2019 by JTTHECLOCKMAN

[kmmcrafts]

21 minutes ago, William O Young said:

Hey John (JT) You da man tonight .
i knew I would wonder all might about your suggestion if I had not gone out  in the cold and checked it so I did. You were right. There IS a replaceable fuse in that saw  and it is where you said it should be. Anybody just looking at where the cord plugs in would never have noticed or guessed that there is a  tiny removable plastic  panel directly below the plug. It even shows a picture of a fuse in the molded plastic.Hard to get off but I pried  it out with a pocket knife . The whole little  plastic  retainer pops out and it has a miniature fuse in it. . I took it out and while it didn't look open , I checked it with my  ohm meter and indeed it was open . I do have a box of various fuses from way back and was lucky to have a replacement. Put it in the retainer and pushed it back into the slot  . .Then  hit the switch and the saw fired up .I was so happy to see that and I thank you very much for your suggestion.

I will still be selling that saw early in the new year after finding it is a clone of a Dewalt  in disguise with a a few added features .I will never trust a DeWalt scroll saw in my shop after all the hell myself and  so many others  have gone through with them in the past. I will get rid of it while I am ahead and at least I don't have to add expensive parts before I do . 

Where the saw is placed in my tiny 10 x 10 shop i was not able to get my camera in there to take a picture  but I will unbolt it from it's wooden stand tomorrow and turn it around and try to get a very close up shot of where the  fuse holder is so it might help out someone else in the future. I have never seen a fuse placed in a place like that ever before on anything. 

Thanks again . You made my day  . . .err . . .night. . . .well , both . 

Happy to hear you got it all sorted out... 

[Scrappile]

There is still the Hegner...... Mind just scroll away, year after year.... Now I know I just put a jinks on it. 

I guess my question is, what would cause the fuse to blow.  That would worry me.  I have had DeWalt, Excalibur and Seyco in that configuration of saws.... I have never had a fuse blow.. 

Glad you got it going. 

[William O Young]

45 minutes ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

Oh be careful about downplaying the Dewalt saw here. There are people that truely love them and they get brought up all the time. I myself was a huge RBI guy as you probably remember but like with everything when they sold the business they went down hill and I do not recommend an RBI to anyone any more. Seems like the new player which it too is another clone of the Dewalt/ Excalibur,  is the Pegas. 

By the way glad it worked out.

Oh yes  , the excalibur and the excelsior and the  new pagas and half a dozen  different brand names are the identical saw with different names and colors .They are being flogged out of  china  like they are going out of style and will probably do the same with them  as soon as they get in the  same position of hundreds of thousands of Dewalts that are always available  as  defective refurbished ones  from ones returned under warranty while the ones that out of warranty still  have to have expensive parts replaced sooner or later.

I still believe the Delta P-20 was the best scroll saw ever made  of any other make on the market..I am still kicking myself that I sold mine when I didn't have room to squeeze it in my tiny shop after buying more turning related tools . The P-20 was built like a tank and very easily serviced with no circuit boards or anything of that sort . Also a great and easy top feeding saw.  .If I plan on continuing  scroll sawing I will search out the market  as soon as I get rid of my DeWalt clone while I am ahead and get a used P-20 ..It will outlast me and ten to one over any of the saws mentioned above. I am talking from my own experience and I wish all the best to all of the DeWalt owners  and friends  that are having trouble free service (so far) with them . I do believe they are way over priced and over advertised  . At least the Dewalt has  a cast iron table even though  very many had to be replaced , even my own , because they were far from being  machined flat.  All the clones have a very cheap aluminum table  with a nice paint job that starts scratching and wearing off in  the first few hours of use just sliding smooth sanded wood around on it . 

Edited December 2, 2019 by William O Young

[William O Young]

1 hour ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

My point was for others incase they are reading this too and run into this problem. Bill has dabbled in everything believe me. Let him get a video up and he will sing a song or two while playing his guitar. 

At 83 I am still doing at least 7 or 8  musical engagements every month and one was just today in a hall only ten miles out of town . Just another one of my many hobbies .  My latest hobby is sausage making and like anything else it takes practice so I am on a couple sausage making forums about that as well . Never a dull moment . 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

1 hour ago, William O Young said:

Oh yes  , the excalibur and the excelsior and the  new pagas and half a dozen  different brand names are the identical saw with different names and colors .They are being flogged out of  china  like they are going out of style and will probably do the same with them  as soon as they get in the  same position of hundreds of thousands of Dewalts that are always available  as  defective refurbished ones  from ones returned under warranty while the ones that out of warranty still  have to have expensive parts replaced sooner or later.

I still believe the Delta P-20 was the best scroll saw ever made  of any other make on the market..I am still kicking myself that I sold mine when I didn't have room to squeeze it in my tiny shop after buying more turning related tools . The P-20 was built like a tank and very easily serviced with no circuit boards or anything of that sort . Also a great and easy top feeding saw.  .If I plan on continuing  scroll sawing I will search out the market  as soon as I get rid of my DeWalt clone while I am ahead and get a used P-20 ..It will outlast me and ten to one over any of the saws mentioned above. I am talking from my own experience and I wish all the best to all of the DeWalt owners  and friends  that are having trouble free service (so far) with them . I do believe they are way over priced and over advertised  . At least the Dewalt has  a cast iron table even though  very many had to be replaced , even my own , because they were far from being  machined flat.  All the clones have a very cheap aluminum table  with a nice paint job that starts scratching and wearing off in  the first few hours of use just sliding smooth sanded wood around on it . 

Hard to get Delta parts these days. It has been talked about here. People liked the blade clamp on them. 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

7 hours ago, octoolguy said:

I just went out to my shop and looked at my EX21. I could see no fuse or fuse holder anywhere on it. I looked at the original manual that came with it and it does show a fuse right at the connector for the power cord. But, if there is a fuse, it must be inside. I guess if you remove the black plastic cover that goes all the way from the top to the bottom around the rear of the saw, it must be under there. The book says absolutely nothing regarding the replacement of the fuse. They must have wanted the owner to have to contact them for service one the warranty had expired. SAD!

 

Ray take a photo of where that chord connects to the saw and post it. Hard to believe yours is not in the same place. 

Edited December 2, 2019 by JTTHECLOCKMAN