Prepping Baltic Birch Before Scrolling

[Heli_av8tor]

I'm doing a project out of 1/4" Baltic birch and had some problems with grain lifting on narrow areas.

I used blue painters tape on the bare wood and glued my paper pattern with contact cement on the tape. When I peeled the tape, with the help of a heat gun, slivers of the surface stayed on the tape.

Can I use a sanding sealer or another product prior to applying the tape to help prevent this?

I'll be spraying a light coat of stain followed by clear lacquer from a rattle can to finish.

Thanks, Tom

[kmmcrafts]

Do you sand your ply before applying the tape? The grain lifts as it absorbs moisture from sitting around..especially in a damp area.. I had some ply scraps that had sat around here for a year or more.. and the grain was rough and lifted some.. had the same issue you mention.. I even had some issues with the drill wanting to sink into the grain and drill crooked.. This happen years ago and ever since then I started sanding my BBply starting with 100 and work my way to 320.. no more issues with this since I started doing this.. 

[Rockytime]

Not all painter's tape is the same. The blue in the photo has a much stronger adhesive than does the lavender roll. The lavender roll is considered delicate. At least that is what the Scotch website calls it. I had  the same problem until I switched.

[dgman]

I don’t have that problem because I don’t use painters tape. It to much work having to remove all those little bits of tape left on the board. I apply the pattern directly to the wood. Then I apply clear packing tape on top of the pattern.

[Heli_av8tor]

Well, I didn't sand and I used blue tape. Will try both suggestions.

dgman: how are you sticking your paper pattern to the wood?

[dgman]

3M Super 77 spray adhesive. To remove the pattern, I use either a heat gun or I spritz the pattern with mineral spirits to loosen it. If the pattern has been on the wood for a long time and doesn’t want to come off with the heat gun, the mineral spirits will do the trick.

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

2 hours ago, Rockytime said:

Not all painter's tape is the same. The blue in the photo has a much stronger adhesive than does the lavender roll. The lavender roll is considered delicate. At least that is what the Scotch website calls it. I had  the same problem until I switched.

There is 2 types of blue painters tape so be aware of that. One is low tack and the other is medium. From Scotch. Yellow Frog tape is good also. low tack.

Edited December 11, 2019 by JTTHECLOCKMAN

[NC Scroller]

I use a lot of Baltic Birch.  I usually go through 2 or 3 5'x5' sheets a year.  I do not use painters tape or shelf liner on plywood.  Even the best painters tape will give you some lift off.  I have tried them all.  Like dgman I use M77 spray and remove it with mineral spirits.

[kmmcrafts]

As I said in my previous post.. I sand it down before using it.. I go through about 25 sheets of 1/8" and around 10 sheets of 1/4" every year.. I first put shelf liner on then apply my pattern which I print out on a full sheet shipping label.. Hate the spray glues.. messy and expensive.. One thing to note.... I do sometimes get lifted splinters IF the shelf liner OR tape is left on the wood / project for more than a couple weeks.. I typically cut the stuff out within 3-4 days so I have no issues with it .. These shelf liners and tapes.. have a shelf life.. which is something else to think about... If you stock pile up on this stuff and it's setting around for 2-3 years... you may have problems..  

[Wilson142]

Maybe a dumb question but, are we talking big box store 3-ply BB or 5-ply BB? 

[kmmcrafts]

10 minutes ago, Wilson142 said:

Maybe a dumb question but, are we talking big box store 3-ply BB or 5-ply BB? 

Not a dumb question at all... as that would make a world of difference in the quality.. I think many of us " Assume" it was the good 5 ply.. and never thought about it being the cheaper stuff.. Since I've never used the 3 ply I forget it even exist, LOL

So.. that is a great question.. I'll be curious to see what that answer is.. 

Thanks for asking that question..

[scrollingforsanity]

I go through several 5x5 sheets of BB a year. I just sand it like Kevin said then use the clear shelf liner, no problem with any lifting. In my opinion much less messier and quicker than a lot of other options and I have tried them all.  Good luck.

[Scrappile]

I try to sand my plywood before applying the pattern just because it then requires less sanding when it is cut and fragile.  I actually use painters tape as little as possible.  Even when stack cutting I only tape around the edges and use nails in waste areas in several places on the inner parts.  I remove my patterns using Mineral Spirits.

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

I never sand my plywood ahead of time. To me it is a waste of time. I do not use much BB plywood but did when I made the napkin holders because it needs to be strong for the thin cuts. Actually used aircraft plywood which is stronger and more plys.  I use light tack blue painters tape. I always use to apply my pattern directly to wood but found that to be a messy operation and when pouring MS or acetone on project the adhesive can get into the frets and it is a mess. 

 

[Foxfold]

I use both 3ply and 5ply birch  and find that all I have to do is glue my pattern to the wood and cut. Works for me .  Then I use mineral spirits to take the pattern off.  Easy Peasy.    I'm a relative newbie and may be doing it dreadfully wrong according to some more experienced scrollers, but since I started doing things this way I've never had a problem.

[kmmcrafts]

If you cut your plywood to whatever wide you want them I typically cut them into about  8x8 inch blanks for ornaments.. Usually get 5 ornaments per blank.. so i rip several 8" strips on the table saw then you can run those strips though your drum sander.. makes the initial sanding quick and easy.. then finish cutting the 8" strips into squares.. and finish sanding with my RO sander to the 320 grit.. drill the pilot holes and hit that back side with the 320 for any puncture holes that may have pushed through.. when done cutting.. I usually don't really have to sand them again but the few that do need a sanding is usually the top of the stack and the bottom one.. Typically stack cut everything 4-6  to a stack..  

[Wilson142]

I pre-sand any wood I'm using for fret work patterns. Trying to sand after the fact is much trickier on delicate pieces in my opinion. I also feel like the clear shelf liner I use is less likely to raise any grain when the wood is smoothed first. I no longer use painters tape on fret work, except to stabilize some portions of  the already cut sections. The tape doesn't pull any pieces because it is applied over the existing packing tape.  

[Wilson142]

8 hours ago, Foxfold said:

I use both 3ply and 5ply birch  and find that all I have to do is glue my pattern to the wood and cut. Works for me .  Then I use mineral spirits to take the pattern off.  Easy Peasy.    I'm a relative newbie and may be doing it dreadfully wrong according to some more experienced scrollers, but since I started doing things this way I've never had a problem.

Bingo! "Works for me ."...Very important. Other peoples well meant tips and suggestions are great but, "works for me!" is what really counts. I've cut many fret work pieces from the dreaded and oft misaligned 3 ply (underlayment type plywood) that many say is impossible to use. I've come to wonder how some things become "dreadfully wrong." If it works for you, how can it be wrong?

[tomsteve]

another one that uses spray adhesive and MS to remove. been doing that for 14 years now and never had a problem with grain lifting.

[spirithorse]

Hi, Tom,
As you can see from the many answers you have already gotten, there are a LOT of variables. Another variable not mentioned is
the temperature. If the painters' tape was cold when applied or colder after application, that's another possible source of the problem.

I try to keep the painters' tape at room temp in the house before applying and I also warm my can of 3M77 before applying it in the
garage.

I really liked Wilson142 's "Works For Me' answer.

Another quick point I wanted to make is, if you are going to stain this project now,  Perhaps you should take a piece of the same material with
similar grain lift or slivering and put some stain on that to see what effects you get. I have noticed on some projects that small dents in the wood
that were imperceptible to the naked eye show up like a sore thumb when it is stained. I can only imagine the same thing happening to wood with
lifted wood grain. I just don't want to think you could possible damage your
project after working so hard on it.

God Bless! Spirithorse

[Gonzo]

I too use spray adhesive, then packing tape on top of that. When I'm done with the piece I pull off the packing tape, moisten a small sponge in MS and wipe the pattern down with that.

 I've ruined quite a few pieces using painters tape and having the fibers lifted, whether it be BB or hardwood. 

I think it was Old Hudson, or NC Scroller that said to use the sponge. 

[ike]

When useing Plywood I use DDuseally 1/4 inch no sanding glue ddddddddirectly dto the wood and ddremove dddd the pattern with spirits  for the bckup Iuse 1/4  underlamelent from Home Deopodt. I never have the lifting problem. I do a lot of fretwork and Painters tape is a pain to remove dWhen staining I use meneral spidtirits on BB with a rag to hellp the stain from splotching on the wood .

IKE

[loftyhermes]

19 hours ago, Foxfold said:

I use both 3ply and 5ply birch  and find that all I have to do is glue my pattern to the wood and cut. Works for me .  Then I use mineral spirits to take the pattern off.  Easy Peasy.    I'm a relative newbie and may be doing it dreadfully wrong according to some more experienced scrollers, but since I started doing things this way I've never had a problem.

Brenda, have you tried re-positioning spray glue, it saves having to mess about with mineral spirits. I use the purple can one from Crafters Companion. Peels off easily and the residue (if any) comes off with the sanding. Never had a problem using it. 

https://www.crafterscompanion.co.uk/crafter-s-companion-stick-and-spray-mounting-adhesive-purple-can.html

[Heli_av8tor]

Yes, lots of ways to skin a cat. I keep my shop at 70 degrees in the winter so tape should have been warm enough. The 5 ply BB I used is good quality. 

I figured glue would penetrate the wood and wreck havoc with finishes.  The painters tape was to prevent this. So far the painters tape has not been difficult to remove (other then lifting fibers). I’ll have to give the glue a try without the tape.

Those using stick-on labels are they a permanent or removable type?

Thanks for all the responses,

Tom

 

[woodduck]

I have been having trouble sometimes with small pieces breaking out on the back of the plywood in delicate patterns even with reverse tooth blades. I have been experimenting with painting a slightly watered down PVA glue mixture & when dry sanding smooth again . I may be imagining but it does seem to hold  things together better. Maybe this could work on the front as well as it does not seem to alter the colour of the ply . 

Edited December 16, 2019 by woodduck