Goat Posted December 22, 2019 Report Share Posted December 22, 2019 (edited) Hi all, I just finished up a project where I had allot of Aspen I wanted to keep white, so I used some water based poly (3 coats, looks great). I used shellac on the rest of the project (4 coats). The shellac looks too shiny and doesn't even look good when next to the water based poly (its a much more dull shine). So what are my options? I read about using 0000 steel wool and wax. If this is the best solution can someone walk me though the steps? How much sanding? What type of wax and how should I apply it? Id prefer the wax be in stock at home depot or menards since this is a Christmas gift so I wouldn't have time to get it online. Is the wax really necessary? I suppose I could shellac up a test board to see what happens. I have some Carnauba Paste Wax for my car. Would that work? As a last resort I could sand off the shellac and just put water based poly on everything. Sad part is I did it this way to save time since shellac spray is so quick. Thanks Edited December 22, 2019 by Goat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTTHECLOCKMAN Posted December 22, 2019 Report Share Posted December 22, 2019 I guess you can cross off the save time part. Lesson learned. If you ever use a product and have no idea how it will turn out in the end, it is always good to run test pieces and make sure you do everything you will do with the real project for an accurate test. Have no idea what this project looks like and what is poly and what is shellacked so my thoughts are sand it back and do the poly. Be just as much time spent. tomsteve 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted December 22, 2019 Report Share Posted December 22, 2019 G'day Goat, As you are in a bit of a bind with time, I would give the wax and steel wool a shot. Use a soft cabinetmakers wax like this. Use the fine steel wool like you would a cloth, eg dip the wool into the wax and then apply to the project in the one direction. Buff of with a clean cotton cloth (an old TShirt is ideal) Let's know how you got on.https://www.bunnings.com.au/gilly-stephensons-100g-cabinet-makers-wax_p1851529 Wilson142 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sycamore67 Posted December 22, 2019 Report Share Posted December 22, 2019 I would just try to use very fine steel wool. Try running lightly and see how it looks. You can repeat until you get the right look. I would not use wax as it will give it a polished look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldhudson Posted December 23, 2019 Report Share Posted December 23, 2019 I see a couple of options. One is the 0000 steel wool and wax. Johnson's Paste Wax is a good clear paste wax, that's readily available (I use it on my Shopsmith all the time). Cut off enough to make a pad and dip it into the wax and apply gently. Let dry a few minutes and then buff lightly with a cotton rag. Or spray a couple of light coats of a satin lacquer. When finishing I always urge others to test before trying anything on the actual item. John B 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jollyred Posted December 23, 2019 Report Share Posted December 23, 2019 One other option is to put the poly directly over the shellac. Shellac is compatible with almost all finishes. A light scuff sanding with fine steel wool or sandpaper first would be a good idea. Tom tomsteve and JTTHECLOCKMAN 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTTHECLOCKMAN Posted December 23, 2019 Report Share Posted December 23, 2019 I am with Tom on this. Just some info of what I do. I never use wax and steel wool. I never use steel wool. I use the synthetic pads and use lemon oil. I do this alot when using micromesh pads and polishing out a piece. Wax gets in the grain and scratch lines and can really mess with a finish. Just my way of doing things. Nether right nor wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goat Posted December 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2019 34 minutes ago, jollyred said: One other option is to put the poly directly over the shellac. Shellac is compatible with almost all finishes. A light scuff sanding with fine steel wool or sandpaper first would be a good idea. Tom Believe it or not this is what I ended up doing. I wasn't happy with how it looked after the steel wool. So I took a chance and applied some poly. So far it looks to have turned out OK. However in my experimentation I messed up a piece. I was a little too aggressive with the steel wool. So I took some 400 grit sandpaper to it thinking I would just shellac it again when done. The piece had black stain on it and I sanded some of the stain off. I tried to add some stain just to that spot, but it wouldn't take. Long story short I had to completely sand all the finish off and re-stain it. Good news is I can still glue the rest the project up as this piece is on the outside and won't effect the fit. And the re-stain appears to be successful. Just need to wait for it to dry before I can put some finish on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTTHECLOCKMAN Posted December 23, 2019 Report Share Posted December 23, 2019 21 minutes ago, Goat said: Believe it or not this is what I ended up doing. I wasn't happy with how it looked after the steel wool. So I took a chance and applied some poly. So far it looks to have turned out OK. However in my experimentation I messed up a piece. I was a little too aggressive with the steel wool. So I took some 400 grit sandpaper to it thinking I would just shellac it again when done. The piece had black stain on it and I sanded some of the stain off. I tried to add some stain just to that spot, but it wouldn't take. Long story short I had to completely sand all the finish off and re-stain it. Good news is I can still glue the rest the project up as this piece is on the outside and won't effect the fit. And the re-stain appears to be successful. Just need to wait for it to dry before I can put some finish on it. Now you know you have to show off this piece when done tomsteve 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goat Posted December 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2019 59 minutes ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said: Now you know you have to show off this piece when done Are we allowed to post pictures of derivative works? I seen a project I liked and couldn't find a pattern for sale. So I just did my own version from the picture. I'm not selling the project, just will be a gift for my mother. I wasn't sure the policy on this, so I didn't post pictures. tomsteve 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTTHECLOCKMAN Posted December 23, 2019 Report Share Posted December 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Goat said: Are we allowed to post pictures of derivative works? I seen a project I liked and couldn't find a pattern for sale. So I just did my own version from the picture. I'm not selling the project, just will be a gift for my mother. I wasn't sure the policy on this, so I didn't post pictures. Absolutely. tomsteve 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goat Posted December 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2019 3 hours ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said: Absolutely. So its OK to post so long as you aren't selling the pattern/completed work? Is it one of those things where if you post it on the internet you accept the fact that someone might make a derivative based on that picture? I hope to have it finished tonight. The big holdup is just letting the stain dry the full 12 hours (and hope thats enough). It already feels dry, but I'm not going to take any chances at this point since I wouldn't have time to fix it again. RabidAlien 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabidAlien Posted December 23, 2019 Report Share Posted December 23, 2019 Go ahead and post it, if someone recognizes the pattern and points you to a link, you can then give proper attribution (and purchase the pattern if its not free). Roberta Moreton 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill WIlson Posted December 23, 2019 Report Share Posted December 23, 2019 12 hours ago, jollyred said: One other option is to put the poly directly over the shellac. Shellac is compatible with almost all finishes. A light scuff sanding with fine steel wool or sandpaper first would be a good idea. Tom Just a general word of caution. Shellac contains a natural wax. You can get shellac that has had the wax removed (de-waxed). It is recommended that you only apply poly over de-waxed shellac. Polyurethane is notorious for being difficult to adhere to. That is one reason they recommend that you scuff sand previous coats of poly before applying additional coats (if more than the specified # of hours have passed since the previous coat was applied). Anyway, shellac containing it's natural wax may prevent the polyurethane from bonding properly. Admittedly, I haven't read of too many real world examples where a finish failed because of this, but it is conventional wisdom and standard practice when it comes to finishing wood. John B 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTTHECLOCKMAN Posted December 23, 2019 Report Share Posted December 23, 2019 50 minutes ago, Bill WIlson said: Just a general word of caution. Shellac contains a natural wax. You can get shellac that has had the wax removed (de-waxed). It is recommended that you only apply poly over de-waxed shellac. Polyurethane is notorious for being difficult to adhere to. That is one reason they recommend that you scuff sand previous coats of poly before applying additional coats (if more than the specified # of hours have passed since the previous coat was applied). Anyway, shellac containing it's natural wax may prevent the polyurethane from bonding properly. Admittedly, I haven't read of too many real world examples where a finish failed because of this, but it is conventional wisdom and standard practice when it comes to finishing wood. This is good advise. I have seen failure of poly peeling off substrates. Not sure what was under it but it was not pretty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sycamore67 Posted December 23, 2019 Report Share Posted December 23, 2019 I use Zinsser Shellac all the time with poly over the top and have zero issues. JTTHECLOCKMAN 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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