RBI

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Not getting into any comments here about RBI because last time I got my hand slapped here. Just wanted to let those know who may have an interest I got off the phone with Doug who I am guessing has taken over as a fireman(customer service)  to put out some fires over there. Not sure if Raven Nondorf is still there or not . But got a load of excuses about my order and was asked if i still want it. As I told him he has me over the barrel nowhere else to get parts. So yes send it. So after 5 months almost to the day I should get my order. What this all means about parts or new saws orders I have no idea because he said there is still 3 guys in the shop and that is all. All I can say to those who are buying a new RBI saw or are buying a used one good luck and hope all works out well for you. Maybe some expediting will happen with a change in voice.  

[dgman]

Just to clarify, RBI is now Bushton Manufacturing.

[OCtoolguy]

Thanks JT. Maybe something good is going to happen over there. I certainly hope so. It would be a shame to see a great U.S. made product go down the drain for lack of leadership.

 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

1 minute ago, dgman said:

Just to clarify, RBI is now Bushton Manufacturing.

Has been for quite awhile. I just used RBI so those may not know other name.

[kmmcrafts]

Hmm those are names I have not yet heard of.. I did hear quite some time ago.. ( before I order the new saw last year ) that Nilus (however it's spelled LOL) left the company.. and I think he was the main owner? one of the head business guys I believe anyway.. I just read a while ago on their site News page that Nicole.. The one girl that was very knowledgeable on these saws was taking a long break to raise the small children.. Think it was her that had a child back when Scott was buying a saw and was somewhat delayed because of the birth of their child. The other girl I've got on the phone once didn't even act like she new was a scroll saw was, LOL ( that's exaggerating but you get the idea..) and she acted like I was being a pain in the rear for wanting her to look up a part.. and also to ask about a serial number to a saw I was looking to buy..

I hope you get your parts soon..

[DME72]

JT i am glad they are finally getting you the parts you ordered.  been looking at another hawk saw as a back up but not sure about it due to some parts being made out of plastic and a few being made in china. not sure i want to mess with all that because by the time i buy the saw and possibly fix the plastic pitman arm and it looks like it might have plastic blade holders too. i will have to get some better pictures from the seller. why buy that and fix when i am already 2/3 the way to a brand new one. anyway glad you got the parts. by the way the saw i am looking at is the last one made by RBI  from the looks of the picture it is a G4. waiting on better photos from seller.

Edited January 21, 2020 by DME72
add info to post

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

6 hours ago, DME72 said:

JT i am glad they are finally getting you the parts you ordered.  been looking at another hawk saw as a back up but not sure about it due to some parts being made out of plastic and a few being made in china. not sure i want to mess with all that because by the time i buy the saw and possibly fix the plastic pitman arm and it looks like it might have plastic blade holders too. i will have to get some better pictures from the seller. why buy that and fix when i am already 2/3 the way to a brand new one. anyway glad you got the parts. by the way the saw i am looking at is the last one made by RBI  from the looks of the picture it is a G4. waiting on better photos from seller.

Doug mentioned a women as part of the problem but did not go into details and I did not care. That could be the same as Kevin talks about. Those 2 people are the ones I have dealt with since this started. Doug says parts are on the way and I got a email confirming this but no tracking number so who knows. I have no idea about plastic parts being used on any of the Hawk saws and find it hard to believe they would use China. These are USA saws. Kevin can probably address it better.  The only plastic part that I know of is the bottom blade clamp holder. They have used them for many years and yes they stretch out and at times crack and need replacing. I changed to a spring steel of metal many years ago after the first plastic clip stretched out. Very easy fix and surprise they did not address this yet. 

Edited January 21, 2020 by JTTHECLOCKMAN

[kmmcrafts]

They did go to a metal instead of the plastic on the new saws... Not sure when they did this but my new saw is metal... It'll be that way with your new "Upgraded" upper blade holder you get with that kit you ordered JT.. Both upper and lower blade holders have that metal tab on them as both holders are removable.. You will see once you get your order..Hopefully very soon..

As for anything else being plastic.. The front angle mount is plastic... BUT not anything Bushton did... it's the design that RBI did when they went to the G4 saw.. as I've said.. the new saw is basically a G4 with a upgraded bearing plate and motor.. as there was some motor / bearing  issues with the G4.. I do not know of any other plastic.. 

As for China made... Everything with the saw mechanism is made right in Bushton KS... Some of the parts are China made.. which are bearings.. maybe other "outsourced" parts I don't know... This is also not something Bushton did... My old ultra saw had bearings in it that said made in China... as well as my old 1993 220vs.. BUT.. these days it's getting hard to find anything that is 100% USA made....

JT best of luck with getting the parts.. Hoping the new guy will get things turned around.. I won't go into detail but the one girl that was answering the phone before shouldn't have been working there... One other time when I got the girl that does know whats going on.. I couldn't hear a word she said and she couldn't here me because a kid was screaming in the background and throwing a fit about something.. Probably why she posted she was taking a break from the business to raise the kids..I won't go into any more than that.. 

They have a "dealer" named Mike from Florida.. I lost his contact info but he could get you parts and saws at a better deal... and you could avoid the phone lines in Bushton.. Mike knew his parts etc too..      

[Rolf]

I was not aware that Nilus left. he was a really nice guy but terrible at marketing.  I know that one of the brothers (owners) had passed away. 

The only plastic bits on my G4 that come to mind are the Pittman arm and the bottom clamp retainer clip. I made a replacement out of phosphor bronze sheet, it is very springy. I cut it out on my Scroll saw.  It works great.  The first BM Hawk that I used at one of the open houses had a stiff steel clip. I discussed that with Nilus along with a couple of other suggestions.

I f anyone wants the pattern for that clip let me know. I will also measure how thick the material is it has been a while.

[fredfret]

Niles was working in the shop on one of the machines a few weeks ago.

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Nilus Orth did not leave Bushton. He is the President of the company. He is the one who just sent me another email telling me of my tracking numbers. Maybe he stepped aside for awhile I have no idea but he is still there. I have had no reason to deal with this group of people before this. Any dealings I had were with the original owners when I bought my new saws. Back then I bought them at a woodworking show and they had reps going around to all the shows representing and showing their saws. Hegner did the same and that is how I bought that one too. Got show price when getting show prices actually meant something, and one of my RBIs I got the show saw for even less. heck all I had to do was come back when show was over and they did not have to cart to next show. Got a good deal on it. 

I see Rolf did the same thing as I mentioned I did with that plastic clip. I made a spring steel one and it is better than what they had and I have no problem with it. Very easy to do. From what you are saying they did finally change that. I told the original people of that problem years ago and I believe others did too. Those were the days when you pick the phone up and there was someone to help you right there. 

I have no idea if things will improve there but still only 3 guys in shop and they work when not out farming. Doug went into the small family business thing but I reminded him that I too am a small family business so as I said I did not want to hear excuses. He did not even offer to send  a couple dozen blades as a sorry gift or anything so still not my favorite company to do business with. Here is hoping things improve and all you RBI owners good luck when dealing with them. 

[Puzzleguy]

It would be a shame if anything happened to RBI ( Bushton Manufacturing )

I feel they make a great saw - one of the finest in the world ( IMO )

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

19 minutes ago, Puzzleguy said:

It would be a shame if anything happened to RBI ( Bushton Manufacturing )

I feel they make a great saw - one of the finest in the world ( IMO )

Yes RBI saws are some of the best on the market so do not get me wrong when I went on the rage of poor service. But alot has happened in the scrollsaw world over the years and there are good quality saws on the market. For the price we pay for RBI saw you would hope parts and service would be better. Not getting into the small family business thing because to me that is BS and service should be better. But have no complaints for all the years I had these saws and all the time spent cutting on them that the only things I needed to replace is the blade holders and the front tension lever. Things that normally wear out. Knock on wood I never replaced or oiled or did anything with bearings on those saws and they are still cutting like the day I bought them and I have quite abit of time and wear on these saws. I do hope things improve also.

[Scrappile]

You pay top price for a saw, you should be able to expect top service........

[kmmcrafts]

I agree with JT, They are awesome saws.. 

Every dealing I've ever done with them has been less than stellar service though.. even way back before I bought my new saw a year ago from last December.. I never gave them any grief about it because I posted on here or somewhere 4-5 years ago about their service ( probably here ) and someone mentioned to me that I was ordering parts for a 35 year old saw.. and gave me the talk about how you can't even get parts for most saws that old... So I chalked it up to that.. Then I read all the stuff about small business and the Farming etc etc.. The saws ( I personally feel ) are so good that waiting 6-8 weeks for a part was worth it to me.. I have multipal saws.. so not a huge deal. 

When I ordered my new Hawk December 2018 and didn't take delivery until almost April 2019.. I jokingly said something about a discounted price for the frustration.. I wasn't expecting anything but the words from the one girl was like yeah we have to pay our employees and blah blah.. That showed me they care less about the customer.. or at least that lady did.. I thought having the other girl on the phone I would have gotten somewhere with that... Now I'm not so sure.. 

I also hate to see anything happen to the company and that was one reason I waited so patiently in the past for my saw parts and my new saw.. The issue is... not many people will be as understanding as I was... They really need some business 101 schooling and customer service schooling... I'm sad to say but... I'm doubtful they will change things around unless they hire out someone else to run the place.. Good machinist and engineers... not good business operators..   

RBI had a real good business going and made a BIG name for their quality machinery ( not just scroll saws ) but I feel Bushton has only been running on that name.. and solely that name.. Many people including myself had been and still does respect and defend the Hawk saws.. but ... how long will they be able to hold onto a name like that while running the place as they do.. word gets around quite fast this day and age..    

Edited January 21, 2020 by kmmcrafts

[OCtoolguy]

So, what I gather from all of you is that if I order a couple blade holders and a "plastic" blade holder clip today I might get them by summer? Is that correct? 

[kmmcrafts]

19 minutes ago, octoolguy said:

So, what I gather from all of you is that if I order a couple blade holders and a "plastic" blade holder clip today I might get them by summer? Is that correct? 

If you're lucky, LOL

I learned to "Call" and ask questions before I order... The one girl ( Nicole ) is in the know and knows whats going on most times.. Get the other girl and she might ask for your serial number and then ask where the blade holder goes on the saw and basically has know idea hat you really want.. ( I'm exaggerating a little but you get the idea )... Most times Nicole would give a estimate of when they might have the part if they don't have it in stock...BUT... she quit.. to stay at home with the kids.. She maybe there part time? i don't know... The other girl has forgotten that you even placed an order... I sometimes wonder if that is the bigger problem... Communication between the office and the person in the shop making the parts.. I don't know.. I just know that since Nicole stepped aside... it's a mess.. not that it wasn't before.. but it's really bad now..  Getting someone to actually answer the phone now is a miracle...  I've been trying to get through for 3-4 weeks.. I've only called 4 times.. as I keep forgetting..  But no answer and the voicemail has been full since before Christmas so you can't even leave a message..    

[OCtoolguy]

43 minutes ago, kmmcrafts said:

If you're lucky, LOL

I learned to "Call" and ask questions before I order... The one girl ( Nicole ) is in the know and knows whats going on most times.. Get the other girl and she might ask for your serial number and then ask where the blade holder goes on the saw and basically has know idea hat you really want.. ( I'm exaggerating a little but you get the idea )... Most times Nicole would give a estimate of when they might have the part if they don't have it in stock...BUT... she quit.. to stay at home with the kids.. She maybe there part time? i don't know... The other girl has forgotten that you even placed an order... I sometimes wonder if that is the bigger problem... Communication between the office and the person in the shop making the parts.. I don't know.. I just know that since Nicole stepped aside... it's a mess.. not that it wasn't before.. but it's really bad now..  Getting someone to actually answer the phone now is a miracle...  I've been trying to get through for 3-4 weeks.. I've only called 4 times.. as I keep forgetting..  But no answer and the voicemail has been full since before Christmas so you can't even leave a message..    

I suggested to our compatriot Brad (Scrollsaw703) that since he is fairly close to them and has a Hawk saw that he manages to do miraculous work with, he should contact them and put forth the idea that he could be their customer service rep right from home. I don't know if he gave any thought to it but to me, it would be a win-win for both sides. He's knowledgeable and available. They need someone who isn't part of their farming business to be a go-between for the customers and the company. I hope he follows up on it.

 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

I said I was not going to make comments on this issue because it will get locked as the other one did if pressed too much. I did not call Doug, he called me. I resolved to let it play out as long as it would. I did a fix around to make them work to get me through the fall season. I too have other saws that I could easily fell back if needed but I am mechanically inclined so I can work around many things that come up on various tools. But the point is what if someone was not and depended on the parts whatever they may be. It is just not fair to customers to run a business on shoestrings especially one with that rep. As I said they keep it up and there are other saws hitting the market that are making inroads and climbing the want to have ladder. I could tell from his voice he did not care if I cancelled or continued. He said he would like to continue to have my business and I told him I will see what happens in the future. Again these are not $500 saws (brand new) At least I expect a little more emphasis on service. Maybe the new way of thinking and I am old school. Maybe they stocked a few parts and put them on the shelf when mine was made. It is not like parts take up alot of real estate   on a shelf. Kevin said it before there has not been much changing on these saws over the years except mainly the motors and now the blade positioning thing so why not keep standard parts available and if it is a money thing then get the heck out of the business. I am sure others have voiced their disapproval to them and just maybe something will become of it. I hope so. But right now I warn anyone buying an RBI saw weather new or old parts and service maybe a thing to deal with. Good luck.

[Puzzleguy]

On 1/21/2020 at 11:28 AM, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

Yes RBI saws are some of the best on the market so do not get me wrong when I went on the rage of poor service. But alot has happened in the scrollsaw world over the years and there are good quality saws on the market. For the price we pay for RBI saw you would hope parts and service would be better. Not getting into the small family business thing because to me that is BS and service should be better. But have no complaints for all the years I had these saws and all the time spent cutting on them that the only things I needed to replace is the blade holders and the front tension lever. Things that normally wear out. Knock on wood I never replaced or oiled or did anything with bearings on those saws and they are still cutting like the day I bought them and I have quite abit of time and wear on these saws. I do hope things improve also.

Unfortunately this is happening to alot of american companies -I have tried to buy American as much as possible 

becasue i believe it builds our country and keeps jobs here - but unfortunately many of our companies are going over seas

to cut down on labor costs and keep their prices down -which is why im hesitatant to buy most things Chinese 

thier seems to be less commitment to quality and sometimes harder to get parts -was thinking about getting a pegas saw

as a back up , and am hesitant becasue i will be hard on it and not sure if it will stand the test of time -  The more we deal with

the new RBI company the more profitable they will be and the more product support they can offer - or buy a used saw

and use it for parts ( which is not all that insane when you think about it ) i wish i could get parts for my Eclipse saw 

but even when the owner ( Ernie ) was alive he wouldnt sell you extra parts -which does not help longevity ( reguardless of the quality )

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Just to put a bow on this hopefully (still not sure) I received my parts today and with it  an invoice and on the invoice it had my instructions written on it which said "I would like to get this as soon as possible" How ironic?? Now all I have to do is check my credit card statement to see that they did not charge me twice for this because if they did all He----- will break loose. They will get such an earful they will beg me not to come back to them. 

[kmmcrafts]

Well?? did they charge your card again? Just curious.. I'm going to be placing an order soon with them... that is... if I can get through on the phone, LOL

 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

2 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

Well?? did they charge your card again? Just curious.. I'm going to be placing an order soon with them... that is... if I can get through on the phone, LOL

 

I did not call the credit card company. I was hoping the statement would come because it is the end of the month and that is when I get the statements. What are you ordering??  You have a brand new saw. 

For you I just called card company and as of today they did not double charge me. Hopefully that stays true but I will be watching. Good luck.

Edited January 28, 2020 by JTTHECLOCKMAN

[kmmcrafts]

33 minutes ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

I did not call the credit card company. I was hoping the statement would come because it is the end of the month and that is when I get the statements. What are you ordering??  You have a brand new saw. 

For you I just called card company and as of today they did not double charge me. Hopefully that stays true but I will be watching. Good luck.

LOL, Yeah I know it's still almost brand new.. I put 100 hours on it.. then stopped using it.. I haven't ran that saw since August.  2019.. because they was real generous with the blade clamps when they sent the new saw.. It came a blade installed and no extra clamps.. I don't know if that is how the old RBI company worked too or not.. But I like to pre-load 5 or more blades.. 

So I want to order a few of those for the new saw.. Then I plan to order some thumb screws for the ultra.. I know I can source those from somewhere else.. in fact I did but the "wing" portion was too big...  Not a huge deal either but thought since I want to order the extra holders for the BM-26 I might as well order some of those.. I have about 12 lower blade holders for the Ultra.. but only half have thumb screws.. and of the half the plastic "wing" is cracked.. they was that way when I un-boxed that saw.. apparently just cracked like that from being old plastic from 1998

On the old 220VS I want to try a new wedge as the one that was on the saw was quite worn when I got it... I just sanded it down to a point and it's worked fine for a while.. I might send the arms in to have them machine them for the upgraded inserts for the wedge.. 

 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

The new thumbscrews are blue cheaper plastic. The old were black and a harder plastic. Who knows maybe these will be better. I see they still are using the roll pin in the bottom clamp. At one time I heard they went to a all in one piece. As I had mentioned before here , that roll pin has a tendency to bend from loosening and tightening so many times over the years and it throws the blade off on an angle. Took me some time to figure that one out but it does. It does look though they are using a solid piece of rod instead of the hollow roll pin so this too may hold up better.  If they ordered blade clamps for me then hopefully they built some stock up but again who the heck knows over there. The top quick release replacement parts came with a red plastic thumbscrew cap. 

That back wedge of mine looks like the day I bought it. I hardly ever change tension with that thing. The only time I move that is when using thin jewelers blades. I did not even move it when using puzzle blades. I use to preload blades but after I found the bad blade clamps I stick with one that works. Takes a few seconds to swap blades and it gives my back a rest. I do sand the ends of the blades in groups though so all I have to do is grab a new blade. Need to do that when I was doing those money puzzles because those puzzle blades dull quickly and break easily when dull. I figured out a pattern of when they would dull so automatically I just changed blade. Trying to get that extra little cut was not worth the effort. 

Good luck in your order. Speak to Doug.