Suggestions Please

[OzarkSawdust]

I just finished cutting this cross for a customer request. I used 1/2" Hard Maple with a 1/4" Walnut backer.

I think it came out a lot better than the 1/4" Baltic Birch ply I did last fall. I sprayed that one with lacquer and did the 1/4" BB backer in Mahogany stain before spraying it. I think I sprayed too many coats and was not super happy with the finish although it looked good.

This time I'm thinking a dip of some sort to get in all the nooks and crannies. Satin or semi-gloss ? I think a glossy might be too much shine...? 

I dip all my puzzle animals in mineral oil and let sit for 2-3 days before taking them to sale. But that's not the finish I want for this project.

With all the time I put into this, and the fact it came out well with no real slips, I don't want to screw up the finish now!!

Keep in mind I'm in my "winter shop" where it's warm...lol, and don't have a lot of room for stuff I may not need again till we go north. Must be able to secure the remaining liquid in something for the trip. I'm using a plastic container with a lid for the mineral oil, and it works very well, and have kept 3 empty bottles to capture what's left at the end of the season.

OK...I think I've given y'all details for good suggestions...Thank you in advance for your thoughts!!

 

Edited February 1, 2020 by OzarkSawdust

[jollyred]

A good finish for what you want to do would be antique oil.  The more coats you put on the shinier it gets, so you can stop applying when you get the shine you want.  One suggestion would be to use compressed air to blow the excess oil out of the nooks and crannies.   If you don't have an air compressor, canned air would work.

Tom

[Gonzo]

Spray shellac would work also. Very light coats. I use spray shellac in my basement shop and does not waft through the house like lacquer. The cross is beautiful by the way, nice work!

[OCtoolguy]

Your work is very impressive. I agree with the spray lacquer. 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

I dip in BLO and then spray a satin lacquer. If no lacquer I dip in Danish oil. I would not use mineral oil and then top coat it with anything. Mineral oil is not a finish or a product that stands up to time. I am surprised you use it on puzzles. Yes it makes the puzzle look deeper and richer when first done but does not last long in my experience using mineral oils. They always need to be recoated. Just an opinion so take it for what you paid for it.

[WayneMahler]

Shellac would work as a good base. I use a lot of it on the furniture I build . I also top coat with lacquer for a more durable finish . I do a lot of crosses on my scroll saw, I always finish them in Satin . Seems to make the art work appear better at least to me. Nice job cutting that looks really great. 

[OzarkSawdust]

1 hour ago, WayneMahler said:

Shellac would work as a good base. I use a lot of it on the furniture I build . I also top coat with lacquer for a more durable finish . I do a lot of crosses on my scroll saw, I always finish them in Satin . Seems to make the art work appear better at least to me. Nice job cutting that looks really great. 

Thanks Wayne! I've never used Shellac. Spray or dip? Then top coat with Lacquer? How many coats? How long does the shellac take to dry before top coating?

[OzarkSawdust]

3 hours ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

I dip in BLO and then spray a satin lacquer. If no lacquer I dip in Danish oil. I would not use mineral oil and then top coat it with anything. Mineral oil is not a finish or a product that stands up to time. I am surprised you use it on puzzles. Yes it makes the puzzle look deeper and richer when first done but does not last long in my experience using mineral oils. They always need to be recoated. Just an opinion so take it for what you paid for it.

How long do you let the BLO set before spraying with lacquer? 

If you dip in Danish Oil do you still use the BLO first? 

As for the mineral oil...puzzles is the only thing I use it on. I have become one of Iggy's Puzzle Zombies and just follow his methods. He does very well with his puzzles and I don't see a need to "reinvent the wheel". A bunch of people buying puzzles from me are getting them for grandkids. I kind of like that the coating is nothing but food grade mineral oil if the kid chews on a piece while playing with it.

Other things I make are a whole different story so I use other stuff. Mostly I have used sprays to finish. Sometimes after a stain of some shade. This is where I mess up. It might have a run...or a spot I think needs more...or how many coats should I put on it. A couple of times I've almost messed up my good work with a finish I don't like. Guess we all learn new methods.

Edited February 1, 2020 by OzarkSawdust

[Sycamore67]

I use Watco Danish Finish and dip in that. After it is completely dry, I will too coat with shellac or lacquer.

I would not use mineral oil on anything but a child's puzzle or toy.  I also do not use BLO as I do not like the hazards with rags or paper towels.

But everyone has their own favorite finishing style.

[OzarkSawdust]

32 minutes ago, Sycamore67 said:

I use Watco Danish Finish and dip in that. After it is completely dry, I will too coat with shellac or lacquer.

I would not use mineral oil on anything but a child's puzzle or toy.  I also do not use BLO as I do not like the hazards with rags or paper towels.

But everyone has their own favorite finishing style.

I've used Watco Walnut and dipped stuff before. Have you used it in "Natural", and does it darken the color much? I want to keep the Hard Maple/Walnut contrast as much as possible.

[dgman]

Hey Gary, everyone has given you good advise. Here is what I do. First I soak in a 50/50 mix of boiled linseed oil and mineral spirits. The oil brings out the color and grain. The MS thins the oil allowing the mix to easily flow into the cutouts and easily flow back into the pan. The MS in the mix allows it to dry within 24 hours or less depending on humidity. I then topcoat with a semi gloss spray lacquer. Two light coats per side is usually adequate. If the finish has and dust nibs, I sand It with a piece of brown paper bag. It like using 2500 grit sandpaper without scratching the finish. The oil will darken the the Walnut and give the Maple a slight yellow. The contrast will stay the same. I use Maple and Walnut together all the time and like the look. I’ll see if I can find a picture of a project with Maple and Walnut.

[OzarkSawdust]

24 minutes ago, dgman said:

Hey Gary, everyone has given you good advise. Here is what I do. First I soak in a 50/50 mix of boiled linseed oil and mineral spirits. The oil brings out the color and grain. The MS thins the oil allowing the mix to easily flow into the cutouts and easily flow back into the pan. The MS in the mix allows it to dry within 24 hours or less depending on humidity. I then topcoat with a semi gloss spray lacquer. Two light coats per side is usually adequate. If the finish has and dust nibs, I sand It with a piece of brown paper bag. It like using 2500 grit sandpaper without scratching the finish. The oil will darken the the Walnut and give the Maple a slight yellow. The contrast will stay the same. I use Maple and Walnut together all the time and like the look. I’ll see if I can find a picture of a project with Maple and Walnut.

Fantastic Dan! Very interesting project. Can you save the leftover 50/50 mix in anything that has a tight fitting lid? Does it last for months, or does it go bad?

You said "soak" how long do you leave it in? Or do you just do a quick dip?

Edited February 2, 2020 by OzarkSawdust

[dgman]

2 hours ago, OzarkSawdust said:

Fantastic Dan! Very interesting project. Can you save the leftover 50/50 mix in anything that has a tight fitting lid? Does it last for months, or does it go bad?

You said "soak" how long do you leave it in? Or do you just do a quick dip?

Yes, you want to store the mix in something airtight. I used to use a quart size mason jar. I now store it in an old gallon size mineral spirits can. I don’t think storing it in anything plastic is a good idea. I usually pour the mix into an old metal baking pan. Usually soak for a couple of minutes or so using a cheap chip brush to make sure every part gets wet. After a few minutes, I take it out and shake of the oil. I may even use compressed air to blow out the oil. Then I’ll wipe off any excess oil with blue shop paper towels. Then I’ll let it dry on a cookie rack. Make sure yo lay the towels out flat so they are not bunched up to prevent spontaneous combustion. I then will pour the remaining mix back into the storage container. The oil mix will be dry in about 24 hours. I will then topcoat with Deft semi gloss spray lacquer. Not the water based stuff, use the oil based lacquer. If it needs sanding, I use a piece of brown paper bag. It’s like using 2400 grit sandpaper without scratching. 
i have been using this method for many years with great success. 

Edited February 2, 2020 by dgman

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

5 hours ago, OzarkSawdust said:

How long do you let the BLO set before spraying with lacquer? 

If you dip in Danish Oil do you still use the BLO first? 

As for the mineral oil...puzzles is the only thing I use it on. I have become one of Iggy's Puzzle Zombies and just follow his methods. He does very well with his puzzles and I don't see a need to "reinvent the wheel". A bunch of people buying puzzles from me are getting them for grandkids. I kind of like that the coating is nothing but food grade mineral oil if the kid chews on a piece while playing with it.

Other things I make are a whole different story so I use other stuff. Mostly I have used sprays to finish. Sometimes after a stain of some shade. This is where I mess up. It might have a run...or a spot I think needs more...or how many coats should I put on it. A couple of times I've almost messed up my good work with a finish I don't like. Guess we all learn new methods.

First let me say because there was statement made here that is half true and needs to be corrected. The impression was made that BLO will have a tendency to be a hazard with rags and paper towels and such, this is true if not discarded correctly but so will Danish oil or any other oil finish!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please be aware of this and be careful. 

Now to answer your question and most have done so already. I dip in blo if using lacquer as a top coat because Danish oil has poly in it and poly and lacquer do not play well together. You get the same color effect with either BLO or Danish oil and yes the color combination will just be more pronounced and look great. For BLO I let sit for 24 hours. For Danish oil I let sit a week but i do not top coat Danish oil unless I add Polish to it to give it a deeper sheen. I love the look Danish oil leaves. 

I see the advantages with mineral oil in puzzles but any other woodworking there is none except maybe cutting boards. 

Shellac is a good go to finish as well. I use that under a lacquer finish where I do not want the color of the woods to change at all such as with holly or aspen. I want that white color. That is what you pay big money for when buying those woods.

As far as amount of coats I usually use 5 to 6 coats at least. I mainly use satin but on some projects such as my birdhouse turned ornaments I use gloss. Rarely use semigloss. 

[Sycamore67]

I have used lacquer over Danish Oil for many years with no problems. You need to let the Danish oil dry before putting another coat on top. I

Getting a good finish requires some patience and time.

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

4 hours ago, Sycamore67 said:

I have used lacquer over Danish Oil for many years with no problems. You need to let the Danish oil dry before putting another coat on top. I

Getting a good finish requires some patience and time.

I have too on occasions and the reason we can get away with it is there is very little poly in Danish oil. 1 to 2 coats of Danish oil does not build up to much at all. You run into problems when the project was top coated with poly and then lacquer placed on top of that. Unless the poly has been sanded and shellac placed between layers it will peel in time. Poly layers lay on top of one another while lacquer they melt into each other for a lack of a better word. Lacquer will not melt into a hard finish like poly.

Agree 100% about the way to a good finish is patients and that is so true. Many times, even in pen making people are in such a hurry to put a finish on a project that took quite long to cut or turn and yet rush through the finish part. Sometimes that extra layer or that extra sanding grit or even just using some paper bag material to knock off those small nibs means a world of difference in appearance and feel to a project.  

[kmmcrafts]

Just curious... BUT what advantage does using mineral oil have over Danish oil for puzzles?? I tried mineral oil once... I can't stand the stuff used alone on the puzzles.. I don't mind it mixed with the beeswax as I make.. but just plain mineral oil is a very poor idea in my opinion as it never really gets dried out.. Do you all thin the mineral oil in some way? it seemed to take forever to get dried out enough where I felt it could be shrink wrapped and inventoried.. Danish oil is usually dried out enough  after a day to handle the puzzle.. but I do wait until there is no strong smell to it before shrink wrapping them.. and the time varies dependent on the humidity and temps.. but normally a couple days.. but has been as long as a week too.. I've had the plain mineral oil sort of bleed out of the wood even two weeks after applying.. 

I don't sell those puzzles as toys and even put in the shrink wrap bag a warning that it's not for small children... so I see no real reason to use the mineral oil and last I knew.. all finishes in the USA was child safe once fully cured.. I'm guessing after setting a week or so ( until the smell is gone ) then packaging it.. sitting in inventory for even a week.. mine usually set for a few months before I actually get to sell them anyway.

I'm talking about the animal puzzles like Iggy does.. I know there are other puzzles more designed for kids.. Those maybe the mineral oil would be best.. 

[Bill WIlson]

My belief is that mineral oil has little purpose in woodworking, beyond using for cutting boards and other wooden utensils that are used in food preparation.  It has already been stated, mineral oil is not a wood finish.  Some folks use it as such, but for woodworking applications, other than those I mentioned above, there are other products that are specifically designed to be used with wood and are better suited for that purpose.  I've never understood the fascination with products like lemon oil and mineral oil for scrolled projects.  Hey, if you use it and are happy with the results, then who am I to argue, but I just don't see much of a reason to use these kinds of products.

[OzarkSawdust]

Good opinions y'all! I think I've got some good options for the cross originally posted.

But very interesting the mineral oil thing that has come up. Maybe Iggy will weigh in on it. I just followed what he is doing...but I'm open to a safe faster finish! I'm trying to push out a bunch of animal puzzles as fast as I can for all the craft shows down here. And I got into a big car show with vendors and a large Pet Expo both very well advertised!

Even down here where it's warm two or three days to cure is a real pain. It does make the Poplar look nice.

[kmmcrafts]

35 minutes ago, OzarkSawdust said:

Good opinions y'all! I think I've got some good options for the cross originally posted.

But very interesting the mineral oil thing that has come up. Maybe Iggy will weigh in on it. I just followed what he is doing...but I'm open to a safe faster finish! I'm trying to push out a bunch of animal puzzles as fast as I can for all the craft shows down here. And I got into a big car show with vendors and a large Pet Expo both very well advertised!

Even down here where it's warm two or three days to cure is a real pain. It does make the Poplar look nice.

Here in the colder climate.. If I put mineral oil and even Danish oil on in the cold.. even after a week out there in the cooler temps.. if I bring it in the house it will all of a sudden start oozzzing out the oils as the wood warms up.. so many things in the colder weather do not completely dry out good.. I started letting the stuff air out good out there and then bring it inside for about 3-5 days before putting it in the inventory..  

[dgman]

Like JT, I have always stated to stay away from products that are not designed as a finish. Mineral oil is sometime used on cutting boards and wooden cooking utensils. These items require periodic refreshing as they don’t get a top coat. Also mineral oil has no driers, so it never really dries. If you are looking for fast, try some spray shellac. It dries in minutes. Just use several light coats. 

[Sycamore67]

There is one difference in finishing philosophy that is not mentioned.  I am not making things for sale and in no rush.  This lets me do things not in a rush and not many pieces to finish.  If you are making things to sell, you have constraints on such things as time and cost.  

[kmmcrafts]

Larry makes a very good point... This is what started my whole deal of the mineral oil and beeswax mix.. and it does work very well.. I have pieces that I made 4 years ago sitting here in my house that look as good as they did when I first made them.. But.. I do use it less and less all the time as I "feel" Danish oil is a better choice... so I use it when at all possible.. and the mix I make is time consuming to apply.. 

The mineral oil and beeswax often needs re-applied on cooking utensils because they get handled, used, and washed all the time.. and with each wash you wash some of the oil / wax away..  

[Bill WIlson]

Cold temperatures have little affect on shellac.  It may slow drying time down a little, but I've sprayed shellac, outside in 32 degree temps, with no ill effects.  Humidity is more of a concern and will adversely affect shellac's drying time.

Shellac normally dries to the touch in about 15-20 minutes.  It can then be recoated.  It does take a day or two to fully cure and will soften some, if exposed to high heat conditions (think inside a closed up car on a hot summer day).  DO not use harsh household cleaners on it.  Ammonia and alcohol will dissolve shellac.

For most scrolled projects, that aren't handled much and don't require the most durable finish, shellac is ideal.  It does create more of a shiny look, but not the high gloss, plastic looking appearance that polyurethane can have.  Shellac can be rubbed out to soften the gloss, once it has fully cured, but generally speaking, this isn't all that practical for most scrolled projects.

Shellac is my go-to finish for most of my scroll saw work.  It is just so easy and fast to apply and clean up and I like the appearance.  I've never tried it, but some folks apply it by dipping.  I'll have to give that a go, one of these days.

[kmmcrafts]

I stay away from spray finishes on fretwork typically because I feel no matter how hard you try.. you can never get a good even coat of spray in / on all the fret cutouts.. I've used shellac when I first started scrolling and it does dry pretty quick.. but as I've said.. it's tough to get in all the cutouts without over spraying too much on the surface..  Another that dries quick is the water based poly.. ( stuff in the blue can ).. again though.. tough to get a good even coat throughout the whole piece.. This is why I prefer finishes that can be "Dipped" and air dried.. Maybe I'm just too picky about getting even coats.. being a auto paint guy for several years.. makes me see paint imperfections from a mile away.. I can look at a car that the color matches perfect.. but the texture of the paint laid out from one panel to the next I can spot out and say.. that panel has been repaired... Dealerships hate me when car shopping, LOL.. I won't buy something that has been repaired.. This day and age.. it's hard to find something in the used car line-up that hasn't had  some sort of repair job done to it..