Propane Heater Safety

[MarylandScroller]

I was wondering if it is considered safe to operate a propane heater in a garage while scrolling and/or sanding?  Obviously, lots of dust is being generated.  I don't currently have any dust collection in place.  

Would an electric heater be safer?  I am assuming an plug-in electric heater puts out less heat and costs more to operate then a propane heater.

-Alan

[meflick]

We use a oil filled radiator electric heater in the shop similar to this one. Works great, and cost little to operate.  It is a supplemental  heat source for he shop. DH also uses one in basement lawn mower room in winter to keep pipes there from freezing (happened once before he used one of these.) it is the only heat source in that area. We were familiar with as my mom used one in her garage in winter because her washer and dryer was in an Unheated garage. 

https://www.amazon.com/COSTWAY-Radiator-Portable-Adjustable-Thermostat/dp/B076JBWJ1M/ref=sr_1_9?keywords=Comfort+Zone®+Heater+Deluxe+Oil+Filled+Radiator&qid=1582146303&sr=8-9

Besides other concerns you raised in regards to using propane, you would also need to make sure it was vented with fresh air. I would not want to take risks presented by propane when there are other safer options like this.

[oldhudson]

I use one with a Mr. Heater attached directly to a 20 gal tank. if I'm forced to work on the car during the winter. I don't think the dust would be an issue, I'd worry more about the chemicals you might use and the flame. Like mineral spirits or turp.

[OCtoolguy]

I'm not a fan of any sort of open flame heater around a wood shop. I use a small electric heater with fan enclosed. It draws very little and warms my small shop up pretty fast. It has a thermostat on it so I can set it where I want it to come on and off. No open flame though.

 

[Dan]

Hi Alan. Read the instruction manual. Somewhere in the first 42 pages of safety info it may address your concern. I believe good ventilation is a must. 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

I too would be scared to use an open flame heater where there is fine dust as well as fumes. ventilation is a concern also. 

[spirithorse]

Greetings, Alan,

Here is one site that calculates how many BTU's a standard 1500 watt heater should produce.

https://homeguides.sfgate.com/much-space-1500-watt-heater-heat-up-87133.html

When comparing that to some vent free propane heaters, here is an example

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Dyna-Glo-30000-BTU-Wall-or-Floor-Mount-Liquid-Propane-Vent-Free-Infrared-Heater/999976660?cm_mmc=shp-_-c-_-prd-_-sol-_-bing-_-pla-_-237-_-sosheating-_-999976660-_-0&kpid&placeholder=null&msclkid=6ef88bc0628217b0c4ffd58d96d060c5&gclid=CN7wgPqP3-cCFbKSxQIdE4gKCA&gclsrc=ds

The only reason I chose the link for the propane heater is because it is the first one that came up sold at a big box store than almost every good sized town has near-by.

When I first had my garage built, I thought I could heat it enough to be comfortable to work in with one of the vent free propane heaters with an up-graded fan for better circulation.
Wrong! I had to be within 4 feet of the heater to feel any warm air!

Good luck with your choice of purchase.

God Bless! Spirithorse

 

[Gonzo]

It depends on how big of an area.  I have a 3 stall detached garage, uninsulated. I have a Mr Heater 35,000-60,000 Btu heater. I can, key word is can, do all my woodworking in there. The thing that I worry about is ventilation. If I run the heater for a couple of hours, I can still smell the fumes 2-3 days later. The heater is darn near brand new, I've run maybe 60 gallons of propane through it.

 Again, the shop is uninsulated, plus it's  50 years old, and has more holes than a whiffle ball. 

Anyways, be careful of the ventilation. 

 

 

[kmmcrafts]

What is heat??  It's currently 19F in my shop.. I've been out there scroll sawing now for almost two hours.. You guys a bunch of wimps..  It was 17F when I came out here.. and I cut these puzzles while out here.. I just came in to wake up my kids to get ready for school and thaw out.. took this picture from my weather station.. 

I do have a propane radiant heater I sit next to me that I stop every now and then from cutting to put my hands over and heat up my gloves..  I leave the entry door open and have a window cracked slightly that sits near my saw for some ventilation.. If I'm out there for 6 hours or so I do smell some fumes sometimes depending on the wind outside, maybe the open door and window isn't  quite enough.. Not very often I spend more than a hour or two out there this time of year anyway..  I bought a electric heater that hangs from the ceiling.. works OK if I'm going to be out there for a long time I use that instead now.. But I have a 24 x 32 shop with a 14 x 32 loft... Loft is insulated but nothing else is yet.. ( work in progress ) .. I think if the shop was well insulated and a tarp put up to block off the woodshop only.. that electric heater would warm it up nicely.. as I can take it from 20F to about 40 with the heater running for a couple hours.... but the shop is all open.  

Edited February 20, 2020 by kmmcrafts

[LarryEA]

Geez, An open flame heater is not a problem when considering the dust.

You're not a flour factory worrying about an explosion.

The heater will not ignite the dust unless you let it collect on the floor til it's an inch thick.

The dust is an issue for lungs, electric motors but not heaters. JMO

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

2 hours ago, LarryEA said:

Geez, An open flame heater is not a problem when considering the dust.

You're not a flour factory worrying about an explosion.

The heater will not ignite the dust unless you let it collect on the floor til it's an inch thick.

The dust is an issue for lungs, electric motors but not heaters. JMO

I would rethink that. Just saying. Grain and flour silos worry about static causing dust explosions. The same theory people run into when setting up dust collectors and running ground wires through plastic pipes. People worry about cutting metal nails or things with tablesaws and causing sparks. There are those on both sides of the isle that either agree or disagree. My thought is why take that chance.?? 

Ever look at your shop and see dust spider nests for lack of a better word, because of fine dust collecting in the air. This happens around furnaces too and that is why they suggest you clean filters and things before starting the heating season. Those trails can catch fires. There is documents on this. Ask a fireman. Just saying.

fine dust is definitely a hazard for lungs as well.  

I think it should be noted too that there are different type propane heaters. Open flame and enclosed units so that has merit. Also safety for ventilation and carbon monoxide are factors. Fresh air source when setting up heaters like that are needed. 

Edited February 20, 2020 by JTTHECLOCKMAN

[stoney]

I believe this issue has been discussed before on this forum.   I would think you would need a very high concentration of suspended fine dust to create a fire or explosive situation.   Granted a vented heater will always be the best method.   I have had a 30,000 btu open flame ceiling hung unit in my shop for 20 years with no issues.  I will say some form of dust collection should be used for obvious reasons.  JMHO

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

5 minutes ago, stoney said:

I believe this issue has been discussed before on this forum.   I would think you would need a very high concentration of suspended fine dust to create a fire or explosive situation.   Granted a vented heater will always be the best method.   I have had a 30,000 btu open flame ceiling hung unit in my shop for 20 years with no issues.  I will say some form of dust collection should be used for obvious reasons.  JMHO

Do you do finishing in your shop too with chemicals?? Lacquers and things of this nature?? 

[stoney]

1 minute ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

Do you do finishing in your shop too with chemicals?? Lacquers and things of this nature?? 

Yes John I do all my finishing work right in my wood working shop.  I use a charcoal filter respirator mask and run my dust collection when doing any finishing work.

[kmmcrafts]

I was looking to install the Mr. Heater Big Max heater but contacted some folks that know more than I do on this and it has a open flame chamber? and they said no to installing it.. sure I know how to install a heater.. very simple.. but also very simple to blow a place up doing it to a place that isn't recommended to use one.. Woodshop use.. nope they said..

My oldest son is a firefighter.. and sees this stuff much too often.. while there may be a million shops heated with a open flame heater and run with no issues.. but there are a lot of fires out there they don't make the news etc too so... There seems to be quite a few of them that my son seems to respond to that this is the case... many folks think because the insurance companies frown upon a woodburner in a shop that a gas furnace is safe.. which it is.. but not in a wood shop.. I'd talk to your insurance company before installing anything of this nature in a wood shop.. They can weasel out of a pay out for damage if "you" install a furnace that isn't safe for a wood shop.. and if you have it installed they'll go after the installer for doing so.. at least this is the case in my area.. Insurance companies insure these places and see all the claims that come in.. they should know what is recommended for a safe installation.. The furnace guy might just be trying to make another sale.. so I don't trust them as far as i could throw a tree trunk LOL

Edited February 20, 2020 by kmmcrafts

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

1 hour ago, stoney said:

Yes John I do all my finishing work right in my wood working shop.  I use a charcoal filter respirator mask and run my dust collection when doing any finishing work.

OK just curious. Because with heater especially open flame heaters read the back of the cans under safety precautions. I tell you there is no way I am putting an open flame heater in any shop if I had to. Would not even recommend it on an open forum like this.  

Edited February 20, 2020 by JTTHECLOCKMAN

[JimErn]

I use a propane heater in my shop, I've heard them called a torpedo heater

That said, I use it to heat the shop and then turn it off.  I also do not generate the massive amounts of sawdust you production cutters do. I do run that ceiling dust filter by Wen too.  Even so I see sawdust speckling the heater, there is no effect at all when it is running.  That outer shield is not anywhere near hot enough to cause a flare up.

My experience, your mileage may vary

[kmmcrafts]

48 minutes ago, JimErn said:

I use a propane heater in my shop, I've heard them called a torpedo heater

That said, I use it to heat the shop and then turn it off.  I also do not generate the massive amounts of sawdust you production cutters do. I do run that ceiling dust filter by Wen too.  Even so I see sawdust speckling the heater, there is no effect at all when it is running.  That outer shield is not anywhere near hot enough to cause a flare up.

My experience, your mileage may vary

I also use one of those from time to time.. but boy it sure fumes the shop up in a hurry compared to the other little heater I use.. If I run that thing I only run it for a short time.. then kick on the electric heater.. That isn't often though because not a whole lot of days in the colder weather that I'm out in the shop for more than a couple hours..

The scroll saw doesn't stir up a lot of dust by itself... It's the "other" things in my opinion that create a lot of dust.. sanding is a huge one.. 

[stoney]

5 hours ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

OK just curious. Because with heater especially open flame heaters read the back of the cans under safety precautions. I tell you there is no way I am putting an open flame heater in any shop if I had to. Would not even recommend it on an open forum like this.  

First John I am not recommending anything I am just stating what has worked for me for 20 years with no issues.   I will state I am not a production operation.   My heater is mounted on a 10 ft. ceiling and has a standing pilot.   I use oil based stains and mostly rattle can finishes.

Have you ever heard of ventless open flame gas heaters used in garages?   They are to be mounted  at least 3 ft. from the bottom of the heater above the floor.   My point is if they were so dangerous they would not be allowed.   This thread started out with concerns about suspended wood dust if I remember right and has since evolved.   JMHO

[Rockytime]

14 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

What is heat??  It's currently 19F in my shop.. I've been out there scroll sawing now for almost two hours.. You guys a bunch of wimps..  It was 17F when I came out here.. and I cut these puzzles while out here.. I just came in to wake up my kids to get ready for school and thaw out.. took this picture from my weather station.. 

I do have a propane radiant heater I sit next to me that I stop every now and then from cutting to put my hands over and heat up my gloves..  I leave the entry door open and have a window cracked slightly that sits near my saw for some ventilation.. If I'm out there for 6 hours or so I do smell some fumes sometimes depending on the wind outside, maybe the open door and window isn't  quite enough.. Not very often I spend more than a hour or two out there this time of year anyway..  I bought a electric heater that hangs from the ceiling.. works OK if I'm going to be out there for a long time I use that instead now.. But I have a 24 x 32 shop with a 14 x 32 loft... Loft is insulated but nothing else is yet.. ( work in progress ) .. I think if the shop was well insulated and a tarp put up to block off the woodshop only.. that electric heater would warm it up nicely.. as I can take it from 20F to about 40 with the heater running for a couple hours.... but the shop is all open.  

Stop it Kevin! My teeth are chattering! 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

2 hours ago, stoney said:

First John I am not recommending anything I am just stating what has worked for me for 20 years with no issues.   I will state I am not a production operation.   My heater is mounted on a 10 ft. ceiling and has a standing pilot.   I use oil based stains and mostly rattle can finishes.

Have you ever heard of ventless open flame gas heaters used in garages?   They are to be mounted  at least 3 ft. from the bottom of the heater above the floor.   My point is if they were so dangerous they would not be allowed.   This thread started out with concerns about suspended wood dust if I remember right and has since evolved.   JMHO

All is fine and everyone is a grown up so they can make their own minds up. What each and everyone does is their own responsibility. My point was to bring some of the danger associated with open flame in a woodworking shop. You bring up some ventless heaters which no I never heard of but never looked into. Who knows if they are legal or not and what everyone's insurance says about their use. That is again something for that person to look into before buying I would think. People drive 80 miles an hour on a highway and never had an accident does not make it right. I wish you all the luck in the world and hope the projects continue. I am sort of fortunate I work out of a basement shop that is insulated from the rest of the basement and is toasty enough to work year round. Somewhat on the smallish side but I make it work.  

[tomsteve]

unless you make enough dust to saturate the air so much you cant see the other end in a 12' shop, dust isnt a problem with a propane heater. the problem is the CO2 burning propane makes.

[Sycamore67]

I run a propane torpedo heater in my garage at times.  Yes,it produces carbon dioxide but not concerned about it. I normally have a carbon monoxide sensor in the garage and have never observed any at all.  I would not run such a heater or any heater with a flame in my shop and just use an oil  filled radiator style one.  

[tomsteve]

a carbon monoxide detector will not detect CO2

A carbon monoxide detector cannot detect carbon dioxide. In general, a carbon monoxide detector uses an electrochemical sensor that outputs electric current proportional to the amount of carbon monoxide the chemicals are exposed to. A carbon dioxide detector uses a non-dispersive infrared (NDIR) sensor that measures light in a sample of air.

[kmmcrafts]

A lot of the newer LP space heaters have a built in sensor and will shut down if the levels get too high.. I don't think the torpedo type offer that just yet.. and seems to be a big community of users of them.. You'd think they'd have that on there.. but then again.. They aren't made to heat a shop.. their intended use is to aim heat at people working outside on certain " outside " job sites.. Not for heating an enclosed area.. Though I think everyone I know uses them inside.. I've tried to run mine but not for only about 10 minutes at most.. and was stinking up and fuming me so bad I opened up the big doors and all the windows...  My shop is a newer shop and is sealed up pretty good even though it's not fully finished and insulated yet...  I intend to just build a small room in my shop where I'll put my saws at.. I don't mind the cold if I'm up moving around running a table saw or planer etc.. but just sitting in one spot scroll sawing is not moving enough to stay very warm.. I'mm put my electric heater in the scroll saw room and keep it at 40 - 50F.. I really have no real need to heat the whole shop.. This summer I hope to build this room and insulate it well..