Speaking of Dust Separators Too

[Scrappile]

I didn't want to intrude on Kevins topic he started about dust separators recently, but I have a question.  I have been using a Home Depot Duststopper on a 5 gallon bucket for quite a while and it appears to work pretty good.  Yesterday I got to thinking about it and I also have a small Dust Deputy that I purchased several years ago.  I found it yesterday and decided to put it on my bucket and see it I can tell any difference.  With the Dust Deputy, after running it a few minutes, it collapsed my bucket on three sides.  It also appears I have a lot more suction at the saw.  That is a good thing, but I am somewhat concerned about what it is doing to my vacuum.  It sounds no different, but something different is happening and I cannot afford to ruin my vacuum.  Amy one have any insight as to if this is a problem or not?  Makes me a little nervous...  I might add. When I first got the HD DustStopper, I mounted it on an orange HD bucket.  It collapsed also, so I switched to this heavy duty paint bucked I had.  The HD DustStopper did not collapse this heavy duty bucket.

Edited March 1, 2020 by Scrappile

[dgman]

My Dust Deputy kit came with two 5 gallon buckets. Maybe that’s what the second one is for?

[OCtoolguy]

Paul, I have pretty much the same setup that you have. Fein vac & DD. I am using the bucket that came with the DD. No collapsed bucket. Maybe you better check the filter in your Fein.

[JimErn]

I have seen on utube that several people talking about making your own DD always use two buckets, one inside the other.  Most likely that is for side strength.  But check the main pick up hose for obstructions too, I think even a partial obstruction may cause that.

[kmmcrafts]

Interesting.. I've watched some videos online about these and collapsing the buckets.. But the one's collapsing the buckets was not either of these brands of dust separators and the fella doing the review said his separator came with the buckets.. My shop vac I have right now is a powerful one.. I've never had one that had this much suction power.. 

As Jim said. maybe a small obstruction somewhere? 

[JimErn]

I use a single bucket on my shop vac, should have mentioned that.

[stevan]

What a timely topic!  I just put together a dust deputy on a Lowes bucket and sure enough, the first time I stopped suction on the hose (you know, not clogged but like sucked up a piece of cloth or work and covered the vacuum hose opening) the bucket collapsed .  I was wondering about the "two bucket sytem" too.

[stoney]

I guess I don't get what good it would do to put the bucket with the Dust Deputy attached inside the second bucket.  Seems to me the inside bucket would still collapse you just wouldn't see it.   What am I missing?   I got 2 buckets with my Dust Deputy kit but only use one at a time.   I thought the second was just for convenience.  

Edited March 1, 2020 by stoney

[OCtoolguy]

I use the second DD bucket for my Dustopper/Ridgid vac system that I made for outside my shop when I set up my tablesaw.

[Wilson142]

49 minutes ago, stoney said:

I guess I don't get what good it would do to put the bucket with the Dust Deputy attached inside the second bucket.  Seems to me the inside bucket would still collapse you just wouldn't see it.   What am I missing?   I got 2 buckets with my Dust Deputy kit but only use one at a time.   I thought the second was just for convenience.  

Point well made! I mean when you close the refrigerator door, you assume the light goes off but does it? lol

[Scrappile]

From what I can determine, the second bucket, is only a "cart" for the first bucket.  You put casters on it and put the first bucket in it... Them you can remove the inside bucket to empty it.... not sure why that is advantage.

I found no obstruction in my setup and my theory is I am connect this to my scroll saw dust collection.  I only used 3/4" PVC that it is connecting to.  May I need to bump that up to 1" or something, but it would go back down to 3/4" when it gets to my loc-line...  I think the Dust Deputy has more suction than the HD one for some reason.... ?? Maybe that has nothing to do with it.

For kicks I am going to try the bucket within a bucket and see what happens.  If the buck does collapse, I should be able to tell because it take a long time to expand back out when I turn the vac off.  I'm pretty sure I agree with Stoney on this one.

Edited March 1, 2020 by Scrappile

[kmmcrafts]

Does the fein vacuum have a high and low speed or variable speed? I've not really looked at one as there is no dealer close by.. Just wondering if you really need all the suction power for the fine dust... not like you're picking up lead marbles.. I think a low powered vacuum would be better for the fine dust and the smaller hoses.. 

My shop vac has the big 2-1/2" hose.. seems like quite a restriction to take it down to 3/4".. I'm hoping to hook up some sort of collection system this summer for my saws.. but I also intend to use a dedicated vacuum since I use this vacuum for a lot of other things and am not wanting to unhook it all the time etc.. I've been looking at lower powered ones and may end up getting one of those units like the seyco system has.. Maybe buy the vac.. and rig my own tubing etc.. Betting that vac. wouldn't be caving in the bucket.. quiet too..

[stoney]

4 hours ago, Scrappile said:

From what I can determine, the second bucket, is only a "cart" for the first bucket.  You put casters on it and put the first bucket in it... Them you can remove the inside bucket to empty it.... not sure why that is advantage.

I found no obstruction in my setup and my theory is I am connect this to my scroll saw dust collection.  I only used 3/4" PVC that it is connecting to.  May I need to bump that up to 1" or something, but it would go back down to 3/4" when it gets to my loc-line...  I think the Dust Deputy has more suction than the HD one for some reason.... ?? Maybe that has nothing to do with it.

For kicks I am going to try the bucket within a bucket and see what happens.  If the buck does collapse, I should be able to tell because it take a long time to expand back out when I turn the vac off.  I'm pretty sure I agree with Stoney on this one.

I think the choking down to 3/4 loc-line is the main issue Paul.   I would try putting a tee fitting in the system with a valve in the third orifice so as to see how much relief you need.   You can also just glue your two buckets together.   Just Kidding  

[Scrappile]

3 minutes ago, stoney said:

I think the choking down to 3/4 loc-line is the main issue Paul.   I would try putting a tee fitting in the system with a valve in the third orifice so as to see how much relief you need.   You can also just glue your two buckets together.   Just Kidding  

Well, this morning I found another bucked, and decided to try using it.  I mounted my Dust Deputy on a new lid that goes with that bucket.  The bucked is a little shorter than the bigger paint bucket but made of the same thickness material.  So far it is holding up, it it starts collapsing I may try what you say or go back to the HD setup I had. 

[stoney]

14 minutes ago, Scrappile said:

Well, this morning I found another bucked, and decided to try using it.  I mounted my Dust Deputy on a new lid that goes with that bucket.  The bucked is a little shorter than the bigger paint bucket but made of the same thickness material.  So far it is holding up, it it starts collapsing I may try what you say or go back to the HD setup I had. 

Yea Paul I can't see your PVC setup but if you were to install say a 1 1/2" T fitting where you convert from your hose to PVC with a valve you could adjust how much relief you need.    To say it another way you can regulate how much suction is required.   You would also be relieving how much load you are putting on your vacuum.

Edited March 1, 2020 by stoney

[Puzzleguy]

i bought something like that quite a few years ago from grizzly tools -it was a black cap for a metal garbage can

with a hose in and one out to the dust collector ( from grizzly )

it separates the big stuff from the dust which goes to the dust collectors bags

Id worry about that smaller unit  killing a shop vac -dont think shop vacs

are made to run all that long - my  grizzly's collector's on about 1/2 of the day .

 

Edited March 1, 2020 by Puzzleguy

[jerrye]

12 hours ago, stoney said:

Yea Paul I can't see your PVC setup but if you were to install say a 1 1/2" T fitting where you convert from your hose to PVC with a valve you could adjust how much relief you need.    To say it another way you can regulate how much suction is required.   You would also be relieving how much load you are putting on your vacuum.

Having sold commercial vacs in a former life I can confidently state that what is at issue is not suction (water lift) but airflow. Water lift only has to do with the weight a vac will pull; everything else has to do with airflow. In this case, restricting the airflow will cause the bucket collapse issue discussed here. I think Stoney's idea of a throttle valve is an elegant solution.

[trackman]

I have a dust deputy with 5gal shop vac. No problem with the bucket.  Am using the one that came with the DD. Instructions said to use a heavy duty bucket. The other bucket that came with it is made to use the wheels that they provide. So you can put the dust holding bucket in it and move it around if you need to. As always using the right tool, in this case right bucket, makes all the difference. 

[tomsteve]

i  think the cause is the way the air moves through the 2 different seperators. the duststopper is designed for the air to move quicker through it-like a thein baffle/seperator, and the DD creates a tornadic action with the air bunchin up at the bottom causing more vacuuum in the bucket

[Scrappile]

Okay after a while the other bucket I setup with the Dust Deputy started collapsing.  So I switch and put the HD DustStopper on the bucket and scrolled the rest of the night wit no collapse problem.  This tell me the Dust Deputy creates a lot more vacuum in the bucket than the HD DustStopper.  The Dust Deputy also separates out a lot more dust than the DustStopper does.  As far a keeping debris and dust from going to the vac, the Dust Deputy, wins hands down as far as I am concerned, but the DustStopper does a fair job which is a lot better than none. 

In the near future, because I am having fun experimenting with this, I will buy some PVC part and put in a "release" valve and see what happens.  What I think will happen is with the release valve in place, I will reduce the vacuum created in the Dust Deputy and reduce the amount of dust/debris it separates.. It will also probably increase the air noise of the setup which I do not want.  With the Dust Deputy a second benefit I noticed was it was less noisy than the Dust Stopper set up.  No meter test or any thing scientific, just what I thought I was or ah, wasn't hearing.  This means it will work no better than the DustStopper and all my fun will be done for not!!

P.S. Just to wanted to state also, I am using a Fein Dust Extractor, not a shop vac.  It is made to be hooked up to tools to extract the dust and run with the tool.  I use my shop vac for vacuum the shop floor.  The  Fein is pretty much dedicated to my scroll saw and my belt/random orbit sander when I use them. 

Edited March 2, 2020 by Scrappile

[stevan]

I thought the second bucket could be used as a "liner" for the first bucket.  You would probably need to trim the top so the number 2 bucket would sit in the number 1 bucket.

 

"There once was a guy with a bucket................."

[dgman]

4 minutes ago, stevan said:

I thought the second bucket could be used as a "liner" for the first bucket.  You would probably need to trim the top so the number 2 bucket would sit in the number 1 bucket.

 

"There once was a guy with a bucket................."

Was he from Nantucket?

[stevan]

I think he was!

[tomsteve]

scrappile, i wonder if increasing the hose diameter would make a difference. 

Edited March 4, 2020 by tomsteve

[mikewix]

I use the bottom of a shop vac that the motor died on. Already has the casters on it and with the 20 foot hose I have I can roll it anywhere in the shop. I am using the DD. So if your vac  ever dies it has another use.