Crosstimbers Posted April 30, 2020 Report Share Posted April 30, 2020 Do you use a sacrificial backer for thin stock when you can't stack cut? I do whenever I have a request for something personalized, where thin stock is needed. It seems I just can't cut well without one. Normally, I use the cheapest 1/2" plywood I can find. It seems like I just can't control my cuts in thin stock, it gets away from me too fast. My usual blade of choice is MGT #3. I admire anyone who can cut think stock without fouling the piece. Any tips or suggestions to help me avoid using one will be appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgman Posted April 30, 2020 Report Share Posted April 30, 2020 That’s the way it’s done Steve. I never cut anything thinner than 1/4” without a backer and I’ve been at it for 25 years! GrampaJim and Crosstimbers 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmmcrafts Posted April 30, 2020 Report Share Posted April 30, 2020 I cut 1/8 from time to time without a scrap sacrificial.. actually cut thin stock quite often around the holidays doing personalized ornaments.. I also use the #3 MG blades.. The hardest for any scroll sawer to learn is feeding the wood to the blade control.. many people will adjust a saws speed to help them control.. or they'll cut easy to cut areas until a blade starts to dull a bit before doing some delicate works that might go too fast for them with a new blade etc.. I learned to saw on a old two speed saw that low speed didn't work, LOL.. I now like to run my saws speed nearly full speed and I never adjust the speed unless I'm cutting metal or plastic.. My point is.. the saw isn't cutting too fast.. it's you feeding the wood to the blade too fast for you to control.. I think a faster blade speed gives a smoother cut edge and back side of the wood than a slow speed.. Everyone has their way of cutting.. and if you have to use a sacrificial piece or slow the blade down etc.. that's okay.. whatever gets you to a final piece and puts a smile on you is really all that matters.. Wilson142, scrollntole, Dave Wittich and 3 others 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crosstimbers Posted April 30, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2020 That sure helps, thanks Dan! dgman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crosstimbers Posted April 30, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2020 I appreciate that, Kevin. As for saw speed, I just found the saw's sweet spot and I leave it there. It' about halfway between 1/2 and 3/4 speed. I've been trying to teach myself feed control. I've gotten better at not putting sideways pressure on the blade. But when it comes to the thin stuff, I guess I'd rather take a few extra minutes and spend a small amount for a backer than take a chance on having to cut the piece twice. I tell myself that throwing away construction grade plywood is a lot cheaper than throwing away curly maple and walnut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmmcrafts Posted April 30, 2020 Report Share Posted April 30, 2020 7 hours ago, Crosstimbers said: I appreciate that, Kevin. As for saw speed, I just found the saw's sweet spot and I leave it there. It' about halfway between 1/2 and 3/4 speed. I've been trying to teach myself feed control. I've gotten better at not putting sideways pressure on the blade. But when it comes to the thin stuff, I guess I'd rather take a few extra minutes and spend a small amount for a backer than take a chance on having to cut the piece twice. I tell myself that throwing away construction grade plywood is a lot cheaper than throwing away curly maple and walnut. Yes I agree, some hardwoods aren't cheap and I totally understand.. It takes a lot of cutting to get comfortable and learn the tricks.. and most folks do not ever get to a point that they can cut without the sacrificial piece.. Mostly because they get to comfy by making scrap without "Trying" to learn to do it without making scrap, If that makes any sense.. In other words most find that comfy spot of just throwing a scrap piece on the back and call it good rather than learning to control just one piece because it's easier to use a scrap than to learn the other way.. When you find some cheap thin material it's a great thing to learn.. You may make a lot of scrap learning but in the end it might be less scrap than you make in a lifetime of using sacrificial pieces all the time.. Crosstimbers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ike Posted April 30, 2020 Report Share Posted April 30, 2020 On thin stock I always use a backer but veryseldom need it. If it's good I sel it or give it away . If you need the backer stock and not giving it away or selling it use underlayment it's about the cheepist ply going.I use it as a finish backer piece painted. IKE Crosstimbers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC Scroller Posted April 30, 2020 Report Share Posted April 30, 2020 By thin stock I am assuming 1/4" or less. If so, a #3 MGT is just too aggressive at any speed in my opinion. Don't get me wrong. MGT blades are my blades of choice 90% of the time. For a single 1/4" or less I would use a Flying Dutchman UR #1. If you really want to stick with the MGT drop down to a #2/0. Crosstimbers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadBob Posted April 30, 2020 Report Share Posted April 30, 2020 I can cut 1/8-inch thick without a backer. I don't like to do it because cleaning up the fuzzies and tear out on the back of the piece is a pain. For Baltic birch, I need to slow the saw sown a bit until the blade gets dulled a little. I think some of it depends on the wood you are cutting. I make some toys that have some weak parts. I make oak plywood for these parts. It's about 3/16-inch thick and very strong. I can dut this at full saw speed without issues. Crosstimbers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crosstimbers Posted April 30, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2020 Those are some really good tips, thanks everyone! I do want to improve my skill so that I can feel comfortable cutting 1/4" and thinner stock without a backer, but now that I know it's a common practice to use one, I'm okay with it. I'm going to practice with thin scrap to build my confidence. But for now, I'll stick with the backer for the pieces I'm going to sell or give away. I never considered that the blade size might be part of my problem. I've used Flying Dutchman UR blades in the past and like them, so I'll order the #1 size to see if it helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmmcrafts Posted April 30, 2020 Report Share Posted April 30, 2020 As you can see there are a million ways to achieve the same outcome.. Scott mentioned a FD-UR.. Nice blades and is still my go to blade for certain things.. but wouldn't be my choice for some thin stock like this because the reverse teeth can and will grab.. for very fragile cuts I don't even recommend a reverse tooth blade.. A number 1 blade might be a better choice.. I ran out of the little blades years ago and now I just do with what I have. but he is right with a smaller blade maybe more helpful.. Again, everyone has different methods to achieve the same results.. If having to use a sacrificial piece then so be it... just calculate the cost in your prices if selling your work.. there really is no real wrong way to achieve the end result.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustynail Posted April 30, 2020 Report Share Posted April 30, 2020 Try using cardboard from cereal box's... I use it as a backer for cutting packs of veneer for marquetry . one top and one on the bottom . That way you can also past the pattern on the cardboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crupiea Posted April 30, 2020 Report Share Posted April 30, 2020 I am a 1/8" bb guy all day long. That said I hardly ever use anything more than a 2/0 jewelers blade on the slowest possible speed. if I could get my saw to go slower, I would do that. I have some bigger blades but just use them for basically trimming the big sheets down to smaller sizes and for long straight cuts like frames and such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denny Knappen Posted April 30, 2020 Report Share Posted April 30, 2020 I also agree, #3 MGT is too aggressive on 1/4” stock. I use #1 MGT blades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jollyred Posted May 1, 2020 Report Share Posted May 1, 2020 Guess I'm the weird one here, I use the same size and style of blade I would normally use, but go slow on the speed. I don't need to cut fast, so I don't worry about having the saw at a high speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crosstimbers Posted May 9, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2020 On 4/30/2020 at 2:09 PM, Denny Knappen said: I also agree, #3 MGT is too aggressive on 1/4” stock. I use #1 MGT blades. Denny, I just finished cutting some ornaments that have some really fragile areas so I used a #1 MGT. I was stack cutting 1/4" stock 3 at a time and had a really hard time with the blade deflecting and ruining the bottom ornament. Normally, I use a #3 MGT. What was frustrating to me is the fact that I was cutting really slow and being very careful not to put sideways pressure on the blade, but obviously I did anyway. The tension on the blade is good but maybe I need to increase it some more? Or, should I have just used a #3 blade since I was stack cutting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denny Knappen Posted May 9, 2020 Report Share Posted May 9, 2020 52 minutes ago, Crosstimbers said: Denny, I just finished cutting some ornaments that have some really fragile areas so I used a #1 MGT. I was stack cutting 1/4" stock 3 at a time and had a really hard time with the blade deflecting and ruining the bottom ornament. Normally, I use a #3 MGT. What was frustrating to me is the fact that I was cutting really slow and being very careful not to put sideways pressure on the blade, but obviously I did anyway. The tension on the blade is good but maybe I need to increase it some more? Or, should I have just used a #3 blade since I was stack cutting? A stack cut of 3 x 1/4" = 3/4" wood. I think that is too thick for a #1R MGT blade. The blade has 13.7 TPI. You might consider the Pegas #1 Skip blade which has 22.7 TPI. Only problem, this is not a reverse blade. Crosstimbers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crosstimbers Posted May 9, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Denny Knappen said: A stack cut of 3 x 1/4" = 3/4" wood. I think that is too thick for a #1R MGT blade. The blade has 13.7 TPI. You might consider the Pegas #1 Skip blade which has 22.7 TPI. Only problem, this is not a reverse blade. I agree. I believe that the #1 MGT blade was the problem. I've always had good luck #3 MGT stack cutting three 1/4" pieces. I just thought I needed the #1 size because of the tight turns on that particular pattern. I may give the skip blade a try. I need to order blades anyway but I've been busy on non-scroll saw projects. So I'll be placing an order in the next day or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denny Knappen Posted May 9, 2020 Report Share Posted May 9, 2020 10 minutes ago, Crosstimbers said: I agree. I believe that the #1 MGT blade was the problem. I've always had good luck #3 MGT stack cutting three 1/4" pieces. I just thought I needed the #1 size because of the tight turns on that particular pattern. I may give the skip blade a try. I need to order blades anyway but I've been busy on non-scroll saw projects. So I'll be placing an order in the next day or two. I sent you a PM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ike Posted May 9, 2020 Report Share Posted May 9, 2020 I use olson's blades I use a #5 match blade for 1/4 thru 3/4 thickness. I also use it on masproduction of 1/8 stacked to cut 5 at a ime and I useally get to use all of them but if I am cutting single 1/8 or 1/4 bb ply I use a # 3 match balden for Cherry or Walnut 3/4 I use a 3 & natcg bkade. cut at my swweeeeet speed. I have tried FD or pages blades and I always go back to Match Olsons. IKE Crosstimbers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crosstimbers Posted May 9, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2020 So much good advice! It really helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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