heppnerguy Posted May 19, 2020 Report Share Posted May 19, 2020 I have recently been sawing some rather large pieces of fret work and one of the most difficult things I have had to deal with, is getting the blade through the hole in the middle parts of the pattern. The holes are quite small and almost impossible to see, let alone trying to get the blade in the hole. I have been using an awl to poke into the bottom part of the hole, so that it is enlarged a little to help with this problem. This does help but I still have a lot of problems. Then I saw someone mention about also using the point of a pencil, sticking it into the hole and turning the pencil so that it also marks the hole with it's lead. This also helped quite a bit to see exactly where the hole actually is. However, as I was watching the video of the moon shiner guy, I noticed the maker of the plaque and the poster of the video, was using some kind of tool on the back side of the holes he had drilled. After I watched it a second time and thought it through, I took on of the pieces I was working on and had drilled what must have been done with a drill bit about 1/32 inch or smaller and with a 1/16th bid, drilled the back side of the hole just enough for a part of the tapered bit head went into the hole. I would estimate it to be, perhaps, one layer of 1/8 inch BB Ply. This created a very small funnel shape in the wood and once that was done, It was so much easier to feel and feed the saw blade into the hole. It was almost like i could do it blindfolded. Dick heppnerguy Dave Monk, John B, lawson56 and 6 others 6 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCtoolguy Posted May 19, 2020 Report Share Posted May 19, 2020 42 minutes ago, heppnerguy said: I have recently been sawing some rather large pieces of fret work and one of the most difficult things I have had to deal with, is getting the blade through the hole in the middle parts of the pattern. The holes are quite small and almost impossible to see, let alone trying to get the blade in the hole. I have been using an awl to poke into the bottom part of the hole, so that it is enlarged a little to help with this problem. This does help but I still have a lot of problems. Then I saw someone mention about also using the point of a pencil, sticking it into the hole and turning the pencil so that it also marks the hole with it's lead. This also helped quite a bit to see exactly where the hole actually is. However, as I was watching the video of the moon shiner guy, I noticed the maker of the plaque and the poster of the video, was using some kind of tool on the back side of the holes he had drilled. After I watched it a second time and thought it through, I took on of the pieces I was working on and had drilled what must have been done with a drill bit about 1/32 inch or smaller and with a 1/16th bid, drilled the back side of the hole just enough for a part of the tapered bit head went into the hole. I would estimate it to be, perhaps, one layer of 1/8 inch BB Ply. This created a very small funnel shape in the wood and once that was done, It was so much easier to feel and feed the saw blade into the hole. It was almost like i could do it blindfolded. Dick heppnerguy Dick, when I took the marquetry class, one of the things that he included in the kit I bought was a small hand turned countersink. It's a very small one. Might even have been a Dremel bit. Anyway, my point is, after drilling, we used that countersink to do just what you said. It creates a divot that really help to get the blade through the hole. scrollingforsanity and crupiea 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trackman Posted May 19, 2020 Report Share Posted May 19, 2020 Top feed the blade through the hole! Very easy to see hole while looking down at it. Dave Monk, WayneMahler and OCtoolguy 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heppnerguy Posted May 20, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2020 2 hours ago, trackman said: Top feed the blade through the hole! Very easy to see hole while looking down at it. I tried top feeding and did not like it. Don't remember why. Might give it another try as I know one can change the way they do things with a little practice and learn to like it with effort. You know, like using spiral blades. Dick heppnerguy RabidAlien, OCtoolguy and scrollingforsanity 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockytime Posted May 20, 2020 Report Share Posted May 20, 2020 Dick, what saw are you using? I do use the pencil trick and sometimes use an awl to enlarge the entrance. If those don't work I may have to buy a Pegas. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxfold Posted May 20, 2020 Report Share Posted May 20, 2020 I saw this on Steve Goods site, (May 2nd) http://scrollsawworkshop.blogspot.com/2020_05_02_archive.html amazingkevin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Monk Posted May 20, 2020 Report Share Posted May 20, 2020 12 hours ago, trackman said: Top feed the blade through the hole! Very easy to see hole while looking down at it. I always top feed when I can. When I'm using a #1 I end up with a hockey stick after about three times. I have tried everything I can think of to solve this problem. If you have a solution please share. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trackman Posted May 20, 2020 Report Share Posted May 20, 2020 28 minutes ago, Dave Monk said: I always top feed when I can. When I'm using a #1 I end up with a hockey stick after about three times. I have tried everything I can think of to solve this problem. If you have a solution please share. If you are getting a hockey stick end it is because the blade clamp set screw needs to be turned in a little. The only time top feeding is a problem is if using spiral blades. Due to all the teeth facing down. Make hole a bit bigger. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munzieb Posted May 20, 2020 Report Share Posted May 20, 2020 Dick, I may have sent you this video before and it is for top feeders but it may help for top or bottom feeders. https://studio.youtube.com/video/uNV87woP6U0/edit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crupiea Posted May 20, 2020 Report Share Posted May 20, 2020 Good tip. I drill the holes on both sides of the wood. Drill where I want them first, then flip[ it over and run the bit through the same hole. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heppnerguy Posted May 20, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2020 8 hours ago, Foxfold said: I saw this on Steve Goods site, (May 2nd) http://scrollsawworkshop.blogspot.com/2020_05_02_archive.html I did see this item but i never took the time to make and try it. I do, however, believe what I posted will be even more helpful because to the funnel like start it gives the blade. I just might check this out so I can make the best choices for me.. I have made a lot of changes through the years, do to trying new suggestions. Dick heppnerguy OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heppnerguy Posted May 20, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2020 2 hours ago, crupiea said: Good tip. I drill the holes on both sides of the wood. Drill where I want them first, then flip[ it over and run the bit through the same hole. That is always helpful but by using a drill bit a size or two larger then the original, I bet you will like that even a lot more..Give it a try.. Dick heppnerguy OCtoolguy and crupiea 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heppnerguy Posted May 20, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2020 4 hours ago, munzieb said: Dick, I may have sent you this video before and it is for top feeders but it may help for top or bottom feeders. https://studio.youtube.com/video/uNV87woP6U0/edit Bernd, this link did not work,, check it out and see if it does for you.. if not please resent one that does. I would really enjoy watching it Dick heppnerguy OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munzieb Posted May 20, 2020 Report Share Posted May 20, 2020 Try this link Dick. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNV87woP6U0 OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roberta Moreton Posted May 20, 2020 Report Share Posted May 20, 2020 That was pretty neat. munzieb and OCtoolguy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heppnerguy Posted May 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2020 On 5/20/2020 at 4:34 AM, Dave Monk said: I always top feed when I can. When I'm using a #1 I end up with a hockey stick after about three times. I have tried everything I can think of to solve this problem. If you have a solution please share. If this is at the top of the blade, I may have a suggestion that should help you. remove your blade from the blade clamp at the top of your saw. Now if you have an Excalibur or a saw that has the lever to automatically set the tension, put it in the tension position, (with the blade not in the clamp)...take a look at the blade and where it is in regards to the clamp at this point. If it looks like the blade is about the top of the set and thumb screw,,,( I am only talking about the center part that actually holds the blades) if so then cut off the part on the blade that is above the the little insert that holds the blade so that the blade does not extend past the insert in the clamp screws. This should eliminate your problem. My theory on this is the blade is protruding to the top of the clamp and went you put on the tension it bends the top of the blade. It works for me. Dick heppnerguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heppnerguy Posted May 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2020 23 hours ago, munzieb said: Try this link Dick. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNV87woP6U0 I watched your video and I am aware of how to find the direction of the blade but I every now and then, after I determine it, I still get it inserted upside down. I have been told the same thing about making a finer tip on my blade but never seen it demonstated so now I know exactly how it is done, I will do that next time. As far as sanding off the oil residue on the blade to give it a better grip, I don't bother with it, but I used to when I had a blade that would slip out of my clamp and it was helpful. However, since I have changes the inserts on my clamps, (like I sent to you) I have found I do not need to reap on the clamp or even worry about the coating on the blade, as the blades do not slip out, even on the smallest of blades, any longer and only with a snug tightening. I never have to use any extra tension to secure the blade. I saw a video by Steve Good where he said one should change the inserts out at least twice a year and doing so, you do not need to exert an extra pressure to hold the blade from slipping and because of that, the clamp does not get bent out of shape, which is the reason the thumb screw and clamp wear out. It made my saw like new, when I replaced the clamp and the inserts. I do not think I will ever have to replace the clamp again as long as I change out the insert twice a year. Thank you again for making the video for me. It is helpful and again, you are the man Dick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heppnerguy Posted May 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2020 On 5/20/2020 at 6:15 AM, munzieb said: Dick, I may have sent you this video before and it is for top feeders but it may help for top or bottom feeders. https://studio.youtube.com/video/uNV87woP6U0/edit Click on the above link and see if it works for you, as it does not for me. Dick heppnerguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heppnerguy Posted May 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2020 On 5/20/2020 at 4:34 AM, Dave Monk said: I always top feed when I can. When I'm using a #1 I end up with a hockey stick after about three times. I have tried everything I can think of to solve this problem. If you have a solution please share. if this is happening on the bottom of the blade, you might check out the video Bernd sent to me and it might take care of the problem you are having, if it is at the bottom of the blade. Dick heppnerguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerry1939 Posted May 21, 2020 Report Share Posted May 21, 2020 ANYTIME you drill the same hole with 2 different sizes, be sure to use the large bit first. If you do the smaller bit first, the larger bit wants to jerk in and do the entire hole. Won't tell you how I learned that !! jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heppnerguy Posted May 22, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2020 4 hours ago, jerry1939 said: ANYTIME you drill the same hole with 2 different sizes, be sure to use the large bit first. If you do the smaller bit first, the larger bit wants to jerk in and do the entire hole. Won't tell you how I learned that !! jerry Jerry, the reason I am posting this is I use this when I am doing small fret work. It holes I need to drill are so small I have to use a drill size that barely allows my #2/0 blade to fit into it. This leaves a hole about the size of a small sewing needle. I can not use a larger bit or I will destroy what it is I am getting ready to cut. Because the hole is so small and usually there are many holes drilled in the piece, It is very difficult to thread the blade up through the hole as it is extremely difficult to even see it. When I say, 'use a bit that is a little larger then the hole', it is to create a funnel shape one the back side of the board and this allows the blade to almost slip into the hole by itself. I understand what you are saying but one has to be very careful and as soon as the larger drill bit makes even the smallest amount of sawdust, you are done. I have never yet found this method to be any kind of a problem what so ever. I do appreciate your warning me about the possible problem. I only do this on a drill press and I do it very lightly and carefully. I do thank you for your heads up, but it is not a problem in the least, the way I do it. If I were using a hand held drill, I would not use this method, for sure Dick heppnerguy jerry1939 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted May 22, 2020 Report Share Posted May 22, 2020 A good tip Dick. I have a 1/4" 6mm bolt about 4" long onto which I ground a rather shallow but sharp point. If I am using the small drill bits eg numbered, I use this to press into the holes from the rear, It makes a funnel shape and a bigger mark for old eyes to see and thin blades to find. heppnerguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heppnerguy Posted May 22, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2020 On 5/19/2020 at 7:52 PM, Rockytime said: Dick, what saw are you using? I do use the pencil trick and sometimes use an awl to enlarge the entrance. If those don't work I may have to buy a Pegas. I have an Excalibur. I used to use the pencil and always an awl but this works so much better for me then the what you are talking about. It is all about the ease of getting my blade from the bottom of my work through the hole. I do not see where another brand of saw would make any difference in solving this problem, unless you are looking for an excuse to justify a new saw, then yes....a Pegas might do the trick. what I am talking about in my post is using a little bit larger bit tip to create a funnel shape to help you find the hole easier with your blade and it will almost take it's own path. This does the same thing a counter sink would do. Dick heppnerguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heppnerguy Posted May 22, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2020 6 hours ago, John B said: A good tip Dick. I have a 1/4" 6mm bolt about 4" long onto which I ground a rather shallow but sharp point. If I am using the small drill bits eg numbered, I use this to press into the holes from the rear, It makes a funnel shape and a bigger mark for old eyes to see and thin blades to find. That is exactly what I am talking about, or trying to in my initial post here. It really helps a lot Dick heppnerguy John B 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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