Fretwork- What to use and where to start?

[ben2008]

I have done very little fretwork. I'm mostly an Intarsia guy.

I plan on doing a larger fretwork ( a mill scene) project using 1/4" maple plywood with some very very tiny cut-outs.  I have an assortment of blades I have accumulated through the years but rarely use them. Some as small as 2/0.

 Which blades are recommended for this?

Where do you typically start you scrolling. Bottom, middle, or top down?

Thanks in advance

Ben

[Bill WIlson]

For portrait style fretwork, I recommend spiral blades.  The size depends on the detail of the pattern.  I typically use Flying Dutchman New Spirals in either a 2/0 or 3/0 size.  Just beware the 3/0 spiral blades are pretty fragile and more prone to breaking than larger blades, but they are great for really fine detail.  If you aren't accustomed to using spiral blades, I recommend that you get some practice in on something simple to get the hang of them. 

When planning the cuts on a portrait, I study the pattern and look for areas with the greatest risk of breakage during the cut.  You want to cut these areas while there is still as much supporting wood surrounding it as possible.  If you wait and cut those areas later, after much of the supporting wood has been removed, you risk breaking it off during the cut.  After cutting those areas, I generally work outward from the center, but the direction is less important than ensuring you maintain as much supporting wood around most fragile parts of the cut as possible.

[kmmcrafts]

Some folks use tape and will try taping some of the pieces back in place to help make it more stable while cutting those real fragile areas out too.. I've done it a couple times where I "think" it helped.. As I got ahead of myself in cutting once or twice and cut out some of the surrounding more stable areas before I realized that I did that.. so I believe it does help some in doing that.. 

Depends on the portrait as to what blade I use.. I use both spiral and scroll reverse type blades just depends on the design and wood I choose.. I find it also can help stabilize a fretwork piece by stack cutting more than one layer.. I almost always stack cut anyway but not always.. Being if you've never cut fretwork or thin material it might make things easier for you to stack cut.. If using a spiral blade.. I almost exclusively use the Flying Dutchman NS- ( New Spiral ) number 2/0 ..and I typically use a Pegas MG ( modified geometry ) #3 or other brand reverse tooth blade in a size around a #2 - #3 ish..  If you're not going to stack cut you could drop to a #1 or so too I suppose.. depending on what you have and how fast or aggressive you like to cut..      

[NC Scroller]

I am not a big spiral fan though I do use them when I need to.  I know I will take some heat for this but in my opinion they tear more then they cut and because of that they are tough on fragile areas.  Also in my opinion cutting a single piece of 1/4" plywood is a recipe for trouble.  Add a piece of 1/8" or another piece 1/4" plywood as a backer to reduce tear out. Using flat blades like a Flying Dutchman Ultra Reverse I would use a #1 or 2/0.  Pegas MG will also work in the same sizes but since they are more aggressive you have to be more careful and reduce speed.  Good Luck and keep us posted.   

[kmmcrafts]

2 hours ago, NC Scroller said:

I am not a big spiral fan though I do use them when I need to.  I know I will take some heat for this but in my opinion they tear more then they cut and because of that they are tough on fragile areas.  Also in my opinion cutting a single piece of 1/4" plywood is a recipe for trouble.  Add a piece of 1/8" or another piece 1/4" plywood as a backer to reduce tear out. Using flat blades like a Flying Dutchman Ultra Reverse I would use a #1 or 2/0.  Pegas MG will also work in the same sizes but since they are more aggressive you have to be more careful and reduce speed.  Good Luck and keep us posted.   

Just curious, but what brand of spirals and type do you use?  I have used a lot of different spirals and while I think Olsen brand is probably the most aggressive and shredding as you called it blade of all of them.. Behind the Olsen would be the standard FD spirals.. They are also slight shredders but I don't think nearly as bad as the Olsen's .. The best one I've used is the FD New Spiral..  

Also to mention about the blade sizes.. I use much smaller spiral blade on a project as I would with a straight blade.. So normally with a flat blade if I was to use a #3 or 5.. I would use a #2/0 spiral.. If I was to use the same number in a spiral ie #3.. they do a lot of shredding etc.. and leave a rough edge.... I rarely use anything other than a 2/0.. but once in a great while I bump up to a number 1.. I bought sample packs way back in 2006-7.. still have all the larger sizes.. learned real quick that I do not like the rough cut of the larger sized spirals.. 

For me.. the 2/0 FD New Spiral is way less aggressive than the Ultra Reverse blade would be.. I actually try to stay away  from a reverse tooth blade on any real fragile works.. especially the UR with the reverse tooth all the way up the blade.. those reverse teeth like to grab the edges of the wood.. can be like cutting with the blade upside down.. Now.. I do use them a lot.. even on fragile works as you say.. but for someone new to thin stock and fragile cutting.. I wouldn't think that would be a very good choice..

For the record.. I've also used the Pegas spirals.. They cut good.. but for me on the Hawks.. I tend to break them a lot.. they run a bit smaller in size..so a 2/0 is more like a 3/0 in a FD brand.. and I've only bought a sample pack of the Pegas to try.. I may switch when I need to order again.. but I really don't use them often and have nearly a gross of the FD-NS on hand so.. probably 5 years or more, LOL They do great in my EX-21.. but just break a lot of them with the Hawk.. 

[NC Scroller]

18 minutes ago, kmmcrafts said:

Just curious, but what brand of spirals and type do you use?  I have used a lot of different spirals and while I think Olsen brand is probably the most aggressive and shredding as you called it blade of all of them.. Behind the Olsen would be the standard FD spirals.. They are also slight shredders but I don't think nearly as bad as the Olsen's .. The best one I've used is the FD New Spiral..  

Also to mention about the blade sizes.. I use much smaller spiral blade on a project as I would with a straight blade.. So normally with a flat blade if I was to use a #3 or 5.. I would use a #2/0 spiral.. If I was to use the same number in a spiral ie #3.. they do a lot of shredding etc.. and leave a rough edge.... I rarely use anything other than a 2/0.. but once in a great while I bump up to a number 1.. I bought sample packs way back in 2006-7.. still have all the larger sizes.. learned real quick that I do not like the rough cut of the larger sized spirals.. 

For me.. the 2/0 FD New Spiral is way less aggressive than the Ultra Reverse blade would be.. I actually try to stay away  from a reverse tooth blade on any real fragile works.. especially the UR with the reverse tooth all the way up the blade.. those reverse teeth like to grab the edges of the wood.. can be like cutting with the blade upside down.. Now.. I do use them a lot.. even on fragile works as you say.. but for someone new to thin stock and fragile cutting.. I wouldn't think that would be a very good choice..

For the record.. I've also used the Pegas spirals.. They cut good.. but for me on the Hawks.. I tend to break them a lot.. they run a bit smaller in size..so a 2/0 is more like a 3/0 in a FD brand.. and I've only bought a sample pack of the Pegas to try.. I may switch when I need to order again.. but I really don't use them often and have nearly a gross of the FD-NS on hand so.. probably 5 years or more, LOL They do great in my EX-21.. but just break a lot of them with the Hawk.. 

Like you I have tried many different spiral blades in all the sizes.  Threw out or gave most away.  When I do use them they are mostly 2/0 or #1 FD New Spirals.  

[ben2008]

Thanks for the great tips and comments. I will use a backer board. However, me and spiral blades do not get along at all. I have tried them and I just can't get them to work for me.  As NC Scroller said above. I threw most of my spiral blades away.

I'll stick with the 2/0 or number 1 skip tooth blades. I am a bit more familiar with them.

I have an old RBI Hawk and an Excalibur. I think I'll use the Excalibur for this fretwork.

Thanks again

Ben

[crupiea]

The 2/0 might be a bit small but the 1 should be fine. 

I like to start in the bottom right corner and work my way up but thats just me. 

If the piece is too big the weight of it will cause all sorts of control problems. Little mistake here, little wiggly line there and they all add up. 

[Roberta Moreton]

Save the large fallouts and fragile area fallouts and tape them back in place
 

[ben2008]

On 6/22/2020 at 12:05 PM, Roberta Moreton said:

Save the large fallouts and fragile area fallouts and tape them back in place
 

Good tip, thank you

[ben2008]

On 6/16/2020 at 12:14 PM, crupiea said:

The 2/0 might be a bit small but the 1 should be fine. 

I like to start in the bottom right corner and work my way up but thats just me. 

If the piece is too big the weight of it will cause all sorts of control problems. Little mistake here, little wiggly line there and they all add up. 

Thanks, good tips.

[munzieb]

Before you start, you may want to check the back and front angle or pitch of the blade. For larger cutouts, a more aggressive angle is ok but if you are doing more delicate cuts with sharp angles you should adjust for that. I have an EX-16 and by rotating the motor (several other topics posted on this) you can change the "bite" angle. It may cut a little slower but is makes for more accurate cuts in smaller spaces.