Bushton inquiry frustrating

[Clem's woodies]

Sent site email.

Problem.      Upper blade holder assy. Has 1/16. Slop in both roll pins.

Asked for.  Solution. S# 30976. 

Also placed part in shopping cart for complete assy.

Went to check out. But site said. Part can not be shipped to that address. Sent in this problem

Waited for suggestions.

Reply frm service.

Hope reply.   Untill you can order we can do nothing.

This answer is very frustrating.

She does not understand. I wanted confirmation on a solution for problem for this 220vs.

Basically i got no useable answer.

Just go away until u can order.  Any one here have suggestions.

I may have to make a part.

Already replaced bearings in pitman arm.

Previous owner not honest about saw problems.  Im new to scrolling so missed problem when bought

Any errors due to eyesight and cell phone.

Gc

[kmmcrafts]

I'm just guessing here.. but I suspect the reason they cannot ship to you.. is maybe you are not in the USA? Because of the Covid19 a lot of places are not shipping products outside of the USA.. I would try to give them a call and see what they say.. 

If you can post a photo of what roll pin etc. you are talking about.. I or someone might be able to help with a solution.. Does this saw have the round barrel style bottom blade holder? I suspect it does and I also suspect that the upper blade chuck that I think you are talking about is non adjustable.. so the whole assembly would need changed.. If this is the case then the upgrade to the new style whole assembly is probably the best option but does cost slightly more.. but it's a much better design... and adjustable... and you then can buy the wear parts individually.. I did this upgrade on my old 220VS..   

[Rockytime]

Who are you and where do you live? 

[DME72]

i know pozsgai design had some of the hawk clamps. i dont know if he still does or not. might be worth a try.

 

doug

[kmmcrafts]

30 minutes ago, DME72 said:

i know pozsgai design had some of the hawk clamps. i dont know if he still does or not. might be worth a try.

 

doug

I was going to suggest the same thing but when I looked on the site he doesn't offer the upgraded one for the older saws.. only replacement parts..  

[DME72]

1 hour ago, kmmcrafts said:

I was going to suggest the same thing but when I looked on the site he doesn't offer the upgraded one for the older saws.. only replacement parts..  

i would call and talk to frank pozsgai and see what he has that will get him back up and running. if he does not have it he can probably make it for you.

doug

[Clem's woodies]

Thanks for all your comments.

I was a little annoyed with the response from Bushton support when I entered my not very thoughtful topic.

I'm more calm and relaxed now.

The RBI model is  220VS  S# 30976

It has the latest , blade holders  from looking at pictures.  upper holder is machined rectangular block with wing screw.

It attaches to a bracket that has the tension lever.   The two pivot points which are 1/8" roll pins have at least 1/16" movement .

I haven't measured with calibers ,  when cutting 3/4" oak the noise and vibration is intense if I try and push wood faster.

Slow is a reasonable vibration at 1/2  rotation on speed control.

Already ready replaced pitman arm bearings that was a big improvement a few months back.

Yes, I'm not in USA. My second request to support got a better answer.   They only ship within USA. There web store does not indicate that at all..  Still no confirmation that there Blade holder assy conversion kit will fit my 220vs.  I'm sure it will by looking at pictures.

Frank P does not supply upgrades any more per website.

I'm in Vancouver BC Canada area and would normally ship to Blaine WA but border lock down has stopped cross border shopping.

My daughter works in San Francisco area so I will ship to her. I hope they will accept a different Bill address and ship address will try

that tomorrow.   This self isolation has many people working from home and finding new hobbies or doing more gardening.

Certainly is annoying  occassionally.  This seems to be working for BC (2K cases)  and Canada (around 200K cases)

THanks for all your input.   This is the first time I have ever gone on a forum and opened a topic.   I am making toys  from

toymakingplans site. Currently making Dinosaurs .   I grew up in a wood boat building shop , dad and grandad  pleasue craft and

commercial trollers .  I am 80 and doing well, no meds , busy from 6am til 10pm.  Try and do 3 hours scroll saw a day.

Wish all good health and stay safe

Gord C

 

 

[kmmcrafts]

6 hours ago, Clem's woodies said:

Thanks for all your comments.

I was a little annoyed with the response from Bushton support when I entered my not very thoughtful topic.

I'm more calm and relaxed now.

The RBI model is  220VS  S# 30976

It has the latest , blade holders  from looking at pictures.  upper holder is machined rectangular block with wing screw.

It attaches to a bracket that has the tension lever.   The two pivot points which are 1/8" roll pins have at least 1/16" movement .

I haven't measured with calibers ,  when cutting 3/4" oak the noise and vibration is intense if I try and push wood faster.

Slow is a reasonable vibration at 1/2  rotation on speed control.

Already ready replaced pitman arm bearings that was a big improvement a few months back.

Yes, I'm not in USA. My second request to support got a better answer.   They only ship within USA. There web store does not indicate that at all..  Still no confirmation that there Blade holder assy conversion kit will fit my 220vs.  I'm sure it will by looking at pictures.

Frank P does not supply upgrades any more per website.

I'm in Vancouver BC Canada area and would normally ship to Blaine WA but border lock down has stopped cross border shopping.

My daughter works in San Francisco area so I will ship to her. I hope they will accept a different Bill address and ship address will try

that tomorrow.   This self isolation has many people working from home and finding new hobbies or doing more gardening.

Certainly is annoying  occassionally.  This seems to be working for BC (2K cases)  and Canada (around 200K cases)

THanks for all your input.   This is the first time I have ever gone on a forum and opened a topic.   I am making toys  from

toymakingplans site. Currently making Dinosaurs .   I grew up in a wood boat building shop , dad and grandad  pleasue craft and

commercial trollers .  I am 80 and doing well, no meds , busy from 6am til 10pm.  Try and do 3 hours scroll saw a day.

Wish all good health and stay safe

Gord C

 

 

I'm glad you posted a first topic... hope it's not your last one as we like people to be active on posting topics.. it's what keeps this site interesting and draws in more people to post more topics which keeps it interesting, Hahaha

As for the upgraded kit.. It will fit your saw.. the upgrade kit is to upgrade the old saws but works well through the years.. I believe the kit was made for upgrading the newer Ultra line of saws..to the newest latest style.. but the kit works on the older Hawks with the round barrel style lower blade holders too.. as they guided me 2 years ago when Ii upgraded mine..

Sounds like if you have the little square style lower blade holders then your saw is a Ultra.. 

 

[Rolf]

Can you clarify the movement? A picture would help. 

[Rockytime]

Thanks for the introduction Clem. Always nice to know who is visiting us as it helps to establish comradery. I think that is a word even if spell-check says no. My wife is Canadian and hails from Alberta and her sister lives in Abotsford, BC.

[kmmcrafts]

Okay, I took some photos of my saw.. to show the different upper arm styles.. Sadly for the old saw with the round bottom blade holders.. the original style upper piece was a broken mess by the time I punched out the roll pin etc so I have not photo of the OEM to that saw.. which is the one I upgraded to the new style..

 

Okay this photo is from my 1998 Ultra 226 saw.. This is probably the style you have on your saw.. What roll pin is worn? the one closer to the tension lever or the one right at the nose of the saw? IF it is the one closer to the tension lever and it worn out into the arm of the saw.. I don't think you'd be able to repair it without drilling it out bigger and using a larger roll pin.. I'm assuming the worn one is the one at the front of the saw which is why you intended to buy the upgraded nose.??

 

This photo is of my old 220VS with the upgraded tension cam assembly which changes the whole system to the new style like the newest BM series saws use.. NOTE: there is no roll pin on the front.. you can change the upper holder assembly by pulling up and out of the slot much like the lower clamps come out of the saw.. In theory if you had a slot all the way through to the end of the front of the saw table you could pre-load blades and swap out whole blade holder assemblies top and bottom with this style set up.. Not that I'd want to do it like that.. but ..   

 

Just a different view angle of the upgrade kit on the old saw...

 

Different photo view of the Ultra style ....

 

I wanted to show this photo to show how your cam lever should be adjusted..  Info will be at the next photo on this..

 

This is a photo of the 220VS with the upgraded tension system.. This is kind of a bottom angle view.. NOTE: the set screw at the back ( near the tension lever ) of  the nose piece.. This is to adjust the cam tension.. You want this adjusted so there is resistance on the lever without any saw blade in the saw.. you flip the lever over like you tension a blade and you should meet this resistance just a little distance from where the handle meets the arm.. If this is out of adjustment it can let the tension fluctuate during the up / down stroke of the saw.. and some cases it can pop the lever up while it's running..  NOTE the above photo where it shows my tension lever resistance position with no blade in the saw.. 

Edited July 8, 2020 by kmmcrafts

[NC Scroller]

Kevin did that upper clamp conversion come from Bushton?  Like you I have an older Ultra VS226.

[kmmcrafts]

1 hour ago, NC Scroller said:

Kevin did that upper clamp conversion come from Bushton?  Like you I have an older Ultra VS226.

Yes, It's a kit they designed to repair the older saws.. The older ones like mine have no set screw to adjust the cam tension so when they got worn a little bit they just sell you a new cam and you have to push the roll pin out and remove the whole thing just to change the cam.. some of them I believe you had to change the whole front nose piece.. anyway.. this kit is an awesome upgrade for those older saws that have no set screw adjustment..

Here is a link to the kit.. http://stores.bushtonhawkstore.com/upper-blade-holder-bracket-conversion-kit/

This is a nice thing about Hawk and I guess? Hegner.. they support parts for saws that are 35 years old.. 

Edited July 8, 2020 by kmmcrafts

[Clem's woodies]

First, I have to say I really appreciate all the comments and suggestions. A little over whelmed , didn't expect

the effort it takes to respond. That considered I was put in a position to provide a worthy response.

Delayed due to real world unexpected situations and my wife's surprise attacks with to do list.

Rockytime:   I'm in Fort Langley  20 miles from Abbotsford, definitely milder the Alberta.(was there in Airforce)

KMMcrafts:  WOW!   Very thorough explanation and pictures. Looks like you have two saws.  One has RED blade holder t-screw and the other

is BLACK T-screw.    I was using a 40 year old dremel which did ok, blades not easy to source. Hawk showed up on craigslist 40+ miles away

took a look , tried seemed to work ok.  Of course I didn't know what to look for having never seen a more up to date unit.

On to my saw.

I took the upper and lower arm pivot bolts out and checked the GBC 4450-00 thrust bearings.  A little rough , so inserted some 10-30  oil and 

STP (thick oil)  , improved smoothness a fair amount., cleaned and steel wool bolt add STP oil.

Removed upper pitman arm bolt, my replacement bearings  are still smooth as silk.  90VDC motor seems smooth , no slop. Motor mount bolts were not tight , snug not loose.   

Blade movement:   front to rear  on lower holder in rear position about  1.38mm.   holder in front position:  2.2mm.  Blade side to side  no gap. Blade to table exactly 90 degrees.

Rear tension assy with V block , seems OK,  not sure, nothing obvious to me, cleaned phenolic washer.

Now to the upper blade holder and blade holder bracket assy.

No adjustment on bottom of holder bracket assy for tension lever.   Forgot to mention lower blade holder is rectangular(see pic)

Pictures:  black line to worn sloppy holes .     Bracket slop =   1.7mm            ,    blade holder slop=    .75mm  best I can measure.

Hope this is understandable .

It sounds different now with less vibration.   Previous owner had it mounted on top of a DIY cabinet with a front door.

This may be creating some vibration or material oscillation harmonics depending on saw RPM, Legs came with it , probably a good next step will be install legs.

Also a next step  will be to order BUshton    Upper Blade Holder Bracket Conversion Kit

 

Hope all this gets posted ,  probably couldn't repeat all this the same.

Wife got a 10yd load of  PLAY GROUND CEDAR CHIPS  so have to go play with that now.  Never ends

Cheers,

Stay safe and healthy

Gord

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DME72]

gord, while you are at it order the air hose upgrade kit for $20. it replaces the clear hose and gives you the adjustable nozzle. it will get rid of the dust alot better.

doug