Hawk dust collection

[kmmcrafts]

1 hour ago, Rolf said:

Brokentone, I used the 3/4" Loc lin. I have my system connected to a Festool Midi running at the minimum speed  which is about 62 DB noise level. The Loc lin is situated so that it doesn't restrict my access to either clamp. On the Hawk I can get it closer to the bottom of the table hole, but it is still very effective on the EX also.

Rockytime, regarding the fine dust buildup on the mini cyclone, being that the cyclone is plastic it is probably because of static charge.  Doesn't the funnel interfere with the bottom clamp?

That may be the case with my Seyco dust system.. The canister is plastic and yes the fine dust sticks to the sides of the canister.. Maybe I need to look for a glass jar for my canister when I build my system for the Hawk..

[Rockytime]

I have a notch in the back of the funnel and the blade clamp rides up and down without touching. The funnel is removed and replaced almost within the blink of an eye. It's ever so convenient. The vacuum is outside the wall reducing the noise substantially. I use no rigid plumbing just cpap hose. Very cheap on Amazon. Everything just slips together and held with zip ties. You may be correct about the plastic and static. I should check my aluminum cyclone. Both Hegners have the same DC set up. Both you guys have very nice and professional plumbing. I love that kind of stuff. 

[TAIrving]

This is a very timely discussion for me as I have been working on a dust collection system for my almost new Pegas.  The top half of my collection system is working well but I have more work to do on the bottom half.  As you can see in the photo, I am using CPAP hose and zip ties.  It does not get in the way as it lifts up with the arm.  

I connect it through a PVC tee fitting to the bottom half and to my shop vac - very loud.  All the dust goes directly into the shop vac and I am concerned about the smaller particles going through the shop vac filter and back into the air.  I am looking for some way to put a good filter in the line to collect those smaller particles.  Any thoughts on how best to do that?

 

[Rolf]

I wonder if you used an anti static spray on the cone if that would work and if so for how long? Or even one of the anti static sheets you throw in the dryer. 

I would never use a shop vac for dust collection, they are just too noisy. The other thing is I would think about putting in a vent so that all of the air is not trying to go through a 3/4 inch hole.  Just my opinion.

[kmmcrafts]

1 hour ago, Algae said:

This is a very timely discussion for me as I have been working on a dust collection system for my almost new Pegas.  The top half of my collection system is working well but I have more work to do on the bottom half.  As you can see in the photo, I am using CPAP hose and zip ties.  It does not get in the way as it lifts up with the arm.  

I connect it through a PVC tee fitting to the bottom half and to my shop vac - very loud.  All the dust goes directly into the shop vac and I am concerned about the smaller particles going through the shop vac filter and back into the air.  I am looking for some way to put a good filter in the line to collect those smaller particles.  Any thoughts on how best to do that?

 

Just my opinion... But to me it seems like this would work better with the suction hose on the opposite side of the saws blower tube. Or are you moving the blower tube up and out of the way?  It's amazing how much better the Seyco system with only a lower suction collection and having a fan with furnace filter at table height sucking up the dust blown from the saws dust blower.. Plus... no suction noise on top of the table.. 

Quite frankly, I've found that the dust port provided on the Ex-21 with a shop vac gets more of the dust than the Seyco system does.. But the shop vac is also about 2x louder, LOL..  

[trackman]

I have my shop vac hose ran through the wall. So no noise. Also use a dust deputy with it. 

[Brokentone]

Thanks for the locline size, that Festool vac sounds like living room quiet. My system is 95D with the saw running with no blade noise but is barely heard with work tunes. My oldC raftsman shop vac is 105D.

Bob

[Rockytime]

8 hours ago, Algae said:

This is a very timely discussion for me as I have been working on a dust collection system for my almost new Pegas.  The top half of my collection system is working well but I have more work to do on the bottom half.  As you can see in the photo, I am using CPAP hose and zip ties.  It does not get in the way as it lifts up with the arm.  

I connect it through a PVC tee fitting to the bottom half and to my shop vac - very loud.  All the dust goes directly into the shop vac and I am concerned about the smaller particles going through the shop vac filter and back into the air.  I am looking for some way to put a good filter in the line to collect those smaller particles.  Any thoughts on how best to do that?

 

Hi Thurman. Thanks for posting your question. Sound like your basic question is not so much about the noise problem but about dust collection.  I would first of all place a Dust Deputy or small cyclone between the saw and the vacuum cleaner. Most vacuum cleaners will do a reasonable job. A Festool may be nice but not financially practical for many. So, we try to work with what is available. I also have the vacuum for one saw outside the room which helps with noise. The vacuum for the second saw is right behind the saw. I put up with the noise with hearing protection.

[TAIrving]

7 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

Just my opinion... But to me it seems like this would work better with the suction hose on the opposite side of the saws blower tube. Or are you moving the blower tube up and out of the way?  It's amazing how much better the Seyco system with only a lower suction collection and having a fan with furnace filter at table height sucking up the dust blown from the saws dust blower.. Plus... no suction noise on top of the table.. 

Quite frankly, I've found that the dust port provided on the Ex-21 with a shop vac gets more of the dust than the Seyco system does.. But the shop vac is also about 2x louder, LOL..  

Thank you Kevin, good idea.  I do use the blower and I will move the pickup to the other side.  The shop vac is quite loud and I use hearing protection because of it.  I plan to replace it with something quieter ASAP.  

Thurman

[OCtoolguy]

I might suggest something here. I bought 2 of the MetroVac's. One for each of my saws. After buying them, I started looking at the little portable vacs from Oreck. We wanted one for our motor home so I got curious as to the price on eBay. I found one like new with all the attachments for a total of $58. Also found many others that would be in that price range or even less. I'm thinking seriously about experimenting with the one I bought to see how good the suction is. They are not all that noisy. Not like a shop vac. I'll let you all know once the experiment is done. I may be putting my 2 Metro's up for sale. 

 

@Rolf, I"m going to incorporate a small piece catcher similar to the one you use. I like that idea.

[TAIrving]

47 minutes ago, Rockytime said:

Hi Thurman. Thanks for posting your question. Sound like your basic question is not so much about the noise problem but about dust collection.  I would first of all place a Dust Deputy or small cyclone between the saw and the vacuum cleaner. Most vacuum cleaners will do a reasonable job. A Festool may be nice but not financially practical for many. So, we try to work with what is available. I also have the vacuum for one saw outside the room which helps with noise. The vacuum for the second saw is right behind the saw. I put up with the noise with hearing protection.

Thank you Les.  Yes, my question was about dust collection.  The comment about noise was just a complaint and I do wear hearing protection.  

My concern about dust collection centers on the quality of the filter in the shop vac.  I suspect that much of the finer dust goes right through that filter and is blown back into the air in my shop (in my garage).  I am looking for way to get a higher quality filter into my dust collection system.  

I suspect, but do not know, that a cyclone type device will remove the larger particles but allow the finer dust to go on to the vacuum.  And I seriously doubt that the filter in my shop vac removes any of the finer dust particles. 

So, my concern is that shop vac + cyclone still does not remove the finer dust particles.  And those are the most harmful to my lungs as well as putting a fine coat of dust on everything in the shop.  

Thurman

[OCtoolguy]

9 minutes ago, Algae said:

Thank you Les.  Yes, my question was about dust collection.  The comment about noise was just a complaint and I do wear hearing protection.  

My concern about dust collection centers on the quality of the filter in the shop vac.  I suspect that much of the finer dust goes right through that filter and is blown back into the air in my shop (in my garage).  I am looking for way to get a higher quality filter into my dust collection system.  

I suspect, but do not know, that a cyclone type device will remove the larger particles but allow the finer dust to go on to the vacuum.  And I seriously doubt that the filter in my shop vac removes any of the finer dust particles. 

So, my concern is that shop vac + cyclone still does not remove the finer dust particles.  And those are the most harmful to my lungs as well as putting a fine coat of dust on everything in the shop.  

Thurman

Thurman, to answer your question, I have a Fein vac running a Dust Deputy before it. The filter inside of the vac is spotless. That cyclone does a fantastic job. I also bought a Wen air filter that is mounted up over my head in my tiny shop. It does a great job of catching what small dust is in the air. I wear a face mask that has the changeable cartridges. So, I'm fairly sure that I have a set up that is working as close to 100% as I can get. Shop around on C/L for used Fein vacs. I only had to wait about 2 weeks for mine to come up for sale. I got it with a 16 foot hose in almost new condition for $175. I'm very happy with my setup.

 

[Rolf]

My shop is in the basement right under our great room, and not far from my furnace. My wife spends a lot of her time in the great room..  So not only noise but dust is a major factor for me.  I stack cut a lot of baltic Birch, I don't know about you guys but I can't stand the smell. I used to wear a half mask with side canisters. The HEPA filter in the Festool removes not only the dust but there is no smell! There will be no inheritance  when I am done. LOL.

[Goat]

9 hours ago, octoolguy said:

Thurman, to answer your question, I have a Fein vac running a Dust Deputy before it. The filter inside of the vac is spotless. That cyclone does a fantastic job. I also bought a Wen air filter that is mounted up over my head in my tiny shop. It does a great job of catching what small dust is in the air. I wear a face mask that has the changeable cartridges. So, I'm fairly sure that I have a set up that is working as close to 100% as I can get. Shop around on C/L for used Fein vacs. I only had to wait about 2 weeks for mine to come up for sale. I got it with a 16 foot hose in almost new condition for $175. I'm very happy with my setup.

 

How do you like that Wen air filter?  I'm about to purchase an air filter and didn't know about these more affordable ones.  Rockler only told me about the Jet system which is $400.  Do you know if the Jet is really worth the extra investment?  Or are they more for a big shop?

[Goat]

8 hours ago, Rolf said:

My shop is in the basement right under our great room, and not far from my furnace. My wife spends a lot of her time in the great room..  So not only noise but dust is a major factor for me.  I stack cut a lot of baltic Birch, I don't know about you guys but I can't stand the smell. I used to wear a half mask with side canisters. The HEPA filter in the Festool removes not only the dust but there is no smell! There will be no inheritance  when I am done. LOL.

Funny you mention the smell.  I put my unfinished work in garbage bags because I can't stand the smell.  I use a half mask with changeable 2097 filters so I don't smell anything while working.

 

I'm trying to decide on which dust collector to purchase.  I want to upgrade from my orec vacuum.  Do you guys know if the collectors like the Harbor Freight 13 Gallon 1 HP Heavy Duty High Flow Dust Collector have a filter?  How well do they work with fine dust like we make scrolling?  To me it looks like it powerful enough to just blow the really fine dust through that dust bag.

[BadBob]

If you are using a wet/dry vacuum and you want to get the very fine dust, you need a different filter in your vacuum. I highly recommend the GORE CLEANSTREAM Filters. I have been using one of these for several years and highly recommend them.

 

[kmmcrafts]

5 hours ago, Goat said:

Funny you mention the smell.  I put my unfinished work in garbage bags because I can't stand the smell.  I use a half mask with changeable 2097 filters so I don't smell anything while working.

 

I'm trying to decide on which dust collector to purchase.  I want to upgrade from my orec vacuum.  Do you guys know if the collectors like the Harbor Freight 13 Gallon 1 HP Heavy Duty High Flow Dust Collector have a filter?  How well do they work with fine dust like we make scrolling?  To me it looks like it powerful enough to just blow the really fine dust through that dust bag.

I have the HF dust collector you speak of.. Great for big machines like the planer etc.. But there is no filter.. just the dust bag on top of it.. I cannot remember the micron filtration of the bag but it's not a good one for the fine dust... You can buy other bags for a better filtration but I don't know anything about them.. or if they fit the HF model of collector..

I have the hanging filtration system that is a clone to the WEN.. It really helps a lot... I think it'd work a lot better if I had a smaller shop.. but i have to clean out the filter at least once a week so it's doing something, LOL 

[kmmcrafts]

3 hours ago, BadBob said:

If you are using a wet/dry vacuum and you want to get the very fine dust, you need a different filter in your vacuum. I highly recommend the GORE CLEANSTREAM Filters. I have been using one of these for several years and highly recommend them.

 

Like that filter since it's washable... I may buy one when it's time for a new one.. I do use the higher filtration one made for fine dust that shop vac sells.. I don't remember the microns now.. It's the blue colored one.. I do tap the dust out of it when I can. and sometimes take it outside with the air hose and blow it out too.. I get a lot of dust that gets past my dust separator.. so I'm going to look for a different separator system.  

[Rolf]

The Harbor freight bag is rated at 5 microns.  My first DC was a small Jet that I moved from tool to tool, it had a bag. I once had the hose blow off of my Dewalt 735 which has a built in blower OMG.  It was great for my planer and table saw.  I have since centralized my system. 

I have Jet Vortex setup with the canister filter it is specked at Canister Efficiency 86% of 1 micron particles; 98% of 2 micron particles.

The Festool HEPA filter  filter particles to 0.3 microns with 99.97% efficiency,  Now I know why I don't smell anything. 

The only problem with the Festool Vacuum is it is basically useless for general shop cleanup. It is meant for sanders and sawdust. 

Lots of particle size chats on the web. 

Edited November 12, 2020 by Rolf

[Goat]

2 hours ago, Rolf said:

The Harbor freight bag is rated at 5 microns.  My first DC was a small Jet that I moved from tool to tool, it had a bag. I once had the hose blow off of my Dewalt 735 which has a built in blower OMG.  It was great for my planer and table saw.  I have since centralized my system. 

I have Jet Vortex setup with the canister filter it is specked at Canister Efficiency 86% of 1 micron particles; 98% of 2 micron particles.

The Festool HEPA filter  filter particles to 0.3 microns with 99.97% efficiency,  Now I know why I don't smell anything. 

The only problem with the Festool Vacuum is it is basically useless for general shop cleanup. It is meant for sanders and sawdust. 

Lots of particle size chats on the web. 

That Jet setup does look nice.  I'd need to save up for that system.

So is something that is rated at 5 microns like the HF safe for in house cutting?  Is there a safe option for $300 or less?  Or should I wait until I can get one of these $750 units?  I plan to get that Wen air filtration system.  My 2097 3M filters claim 0.3 particle filtration, so I should be OK while the mask is on.  Just want to be sure we are OK once the mask is off.

[OCtoolguy]

9 hours ago, Goat said:

How do you like that Wen air filter?  I'm about to purchase an air filter and didn't know about these more affordable ones.  Rockler only told me about the Jet system which is $400.  Do you know if the Jet is really worth the extra investment?  Or are they more for a big shop?

I'm very happy with the Wen. I did have to replace the electronics in it. It would turn itself on when I wasn't around. It was picking up a signal from something in the area. I contacted Wen and they sent me a new receiver for it. I haven't had any problem since. I like the feature that it will run for an hour after I leave the shop. I cleaned the pre-filter in it and it is catching a ton of dust. I compared the cfm of it and the more expensive ones. It's a bit less but not enough to make me upgrade. I'm old so I do things as cheaply as possible. No sense buying all the super expensive stuff at my age just so somebody else can enjoy it. Lol!

[kmmcrafts]

IF I was looking to use it on just a scroll saw.. and fine dust from a sander.. I think the HF unit is too big and bulky plus I'd shoot for something 3 micron... that's just my opinion... in a wood shop where a mask filter is worn and no one else " living in there with you " the HF collector makes sense.. Inside a house you'll want a strict filtration system.. I would look into a Fein or Festool type vac that has a true Hepa filter system if I was to go back to sawing in the house.. Believe the Festool is quieter on the low setting than the Fein is.. My goal is a Festool set up.. But I'm out in the shop.. wanting to move operations upstairs in the loft area where my inventory is stored and where I have finished insulating so heating and cooling would be more practical.. I would move my one of my saws up there, CNC... laser is already set up up there.. sanding and larger equipment would stay downstairs.. I bought the Seyco vac system but it's not getting enough of the dust for me to feel safe moving the saw upstairs yet.. I need a better system..  

Ray mentioned above about the cheaper filtration systems being slightly less CFM than the pricey ones.. I think you could buy 4 of them for the price of that one.. that way there would be more filter surface area too, LOL  I'll say.. a box fan and a good filter will be more CFM and probably more practical.. You'll be amazed what the box fan and filter will do.. There was a discussion about this some time ago and there was a Youtube video of a study of Box fan vrs. these hanging filtration systems... If I recall the box fan out performed the hanging unit.. One could hang a box fan to suck upwards and tape the filer on the back? A lot cheaper than a $100 unit.. You might search youtube for some information..

[Goat]

55 minutes ago, kmmcrafts said:

IF I was looking to use it on just a scroll saw.. and fine dust from a sander.. I think the HF unit is too big and bulky plus I'd shoot for something 3 micron... that's just my opinion... in a wood shop where a mask filter is worn and no one else " living in there with you " the HF collector makes sense.. Inside a house you'll want a strict filtration system.. I would look into a Fein or Festool type vac that has a true Hepa filter system if I was to go back to sawing in the house.. Believe the Festool is quieter on the low setting than the Fein is.. My goal is a Festool set up.. But I'm out in the shop.. wanting to move operations upstairs in the loft area where my inventory is stored and where I have finished insulating so heating and cooling would be more practical.. I would move my one of my saws up there, CNC... laser is already set up up there.. sanding and larger equipment would stay downstairs.. I bought the Seyco vac system but it's not getting enough of the dust for me to feel safe moving the saw upstairs yet.. I need a better system..  

Ray mentioned above about the cheaper filtration systems being slightly less CFM than the pricey ones.. I think you could buy 4 of them for the price of that one.. that way there would be more filter surface area too, LOL  I'll say.. a box fan and a good filter will be more CFM and probably more practical.. You'll be amazed what the box fan and filter will do.. There was a discussion about this some time ago and there was a Youtube video of a study of Box fan vrs. these hanging filtration systems... If I recall the box fan out performed the hanging unit.. One could hang a box fan to suck upwards and tape the filer on the back? A lot cheaper than a $100 unit.. You might search youtube for some information..

I'm actually trying out the box fan right now while cutting outside.  I purchased a new fan because my old one didn't seem to have much suction.  Well the new one seems just as bad.  It does seem to catch allot of dust, but I seen enough off to the sides that I wouldn't want to trust it inside yet.  I think running the fan in combo with the Wen air filtration system would be a good combo. 

 

If I need a Fein or Fetool for this winter I'll probably just get the HF, leave it outside the door and put a Mr Heater in the garage.  But sounds like I should keep using my orec vaccum.  The hepa filter claims 0.3 particle filtration.  Maybe with some nice duct work like shown in this thread it would do a better job.  While the air seemed clear, it wasn't working to my liking as I'd find dust on things in the room.  Which is why I stopped cutting inside.

 

Can you link me to the exact Fein/Festool I should be getting?  There are several models and I'm not familiar with them at all.

 

Thanks again for all the help everyone.

[OCtoolguy]

8 hours ago, Goat said:

I'm actually trying out the box fan right now while cutting outside.  I purchased a new fan because my old one didn't seem to have much suction.  Well the new one seems just as bad.  It does seem to catch allot of dust, but I seen enough off to the sides that I wouldn't want to trust it inside yet.  I think running the fan in combo with the Wen air filtration system would be a good combo. 

 

If I need a Fein or Fetool for this winter I'll probably just get the HF, leave it outside the door and put a Mr Heater in the garage.  But sounds like I should keep using my orec vaccum.  The hepa filter claims 0.3 particle filtration.  Maybe with some nice duct work like shown in this thread it would do a better job.  While the air seemed clear, it wasn't working to my liking as I'd find dust on things in the room.  Which is why I stopped cutting inside.

 

Can you link me to the exact Fein/Festool I should be getting?  There are several models and I'm not familiar with them at all.

 

Thanks again for all the help everyone.

The Fein that I have is no longer made. It was one of the original Italian made ones. But, with that said, I think any of the upper end vacs will work well. I've not priced the Festool since I bought my Fein. As I mentioned, check for a used one on either C/L or eBay. Since I hooked mine up to the Dust Deputy, the white filter bag inside of the vac is pristine. I can't see any fine dust in it at all. 

I like the idea of running a box fan with a really good filter on it as an air cleaner. I used a box fan with a really cheap set of furnace filters. I mean a package of 4 was under $5. I wrapped all four of them to the fan with bungee cords and set it along side of the table on my saw with the little blower aimed in that direction. I was amazed at how much of the dust those cheap filters caught. With a really good HEPA filter I can see that it could be very effective. I did once ask my wife about bringing one of my saws into the house. Boy, talk about "stink eye". 

 

[kmmcrafts]

8 hours ago, Goat said:

I'm actually trying out the box fan right now while cutting outside.  I purchased a new fan because my old one didn't seem to have much suction.  Well the new one seems just as bad.  It does seem to catch allot of dust, but I seen enough off to the sides that I wouldn't want to trust it inside yet.  I think running the fan in combo with the Wen air filtration system would be a good combo. 

 

If I need a Fein or Fetool for this winter I'll probably just get the HF, leave it outside the door and put a Mr Heater in the garage.  But sounds like I should keep using my orec vaccum.  The hepa filter claims 0.3 particle filtration.  Maybe with some nice duct work like shown in this thread it would do a better job.  While the air seemed clear, it wasn't working to my liking as I'd find dust on things in the room.  Which is why I stopped cutting inside.

 

Can you link me to the exact Fein/Festool I should be getting?  There are several models and I'm not familiar with them at all.

 

Thanks again for all the help everyone.

I don't really know them either since I have no first hand experience with either.. What little I researched a couple years back was.. Not all Fien brands have a Hepa filter... and they are single speed.. Festool I believe all have Hepa filter and come with two speeds.. Fien is cheaper... BUT they get pretty comparable when you buy the special HEPA filter you're looking at close to the same price points.. I'd maybe recommend looking to see which one has a dealer close to where you live for parts and service if / when ever needed.. I was leaning toward the Festool MIDI model.. mainly because it's priced right there with Fein once the extra cost of the HEPA filter was brought into the equation.. I have a local dealer for Festool.. actually where I buy my lumber and many of my supplies to I'm there all the time.. enough that they know me by name when I walk in, LOL

I would think the box fan test "outside" would be irrelevant test because outside you have a breeze.. may not be much but I'm sure it'd influence the fine sawdust to blow in directions that normally wouldn't happen in a enclosed room.. With a good allergy type filter behind the fan.. it does slow down the air flow.. BUT.. you'll get that with your ceiling unit too.. I thought when I first got my ceiling unit that it wasn't going to do any good because it has less air flow than my box fan does.. It sure catches a lot of dust though.. Oh and filter surface area is smaller than the box fan too I would think.. maybe not as the physical size is smaller but maybe with all the waves ( for lack of a better word ) there is as much surface area being filtered.. Placement of the box fan is important too.. if you are able to set it on a bench so the height is about the level of the scroll saws work table you get better results than just setting the fan next to the saw on the floor.. The dust blower of the saw blowing toward the box fan a table height and as close to the saw as you can get without it being in your way is quite effective.. 

Honestly not sure you'll ever get to a point where you're getting 100% of the dust.. catching some is better than none.. some sort of dust collection is better than no collection at all..  When I was sawing in the house with my DeWalt saw.. I cut in a spare room right next to a big chest freezer.. The saw blower tube blew toward the freezer.. so I place the box fan on top of the freezer.. I didn't get any more dust than the normal dust my house gets before having the saw inside.. I didn't have a vacuum hooked up to it at all.. But I did rig up a box under the lower blade that caught the dust before it floated to the floor.. 

I would think between a vacuum system on your saw.. a box fan with filter.. and the hanging filter.. you should have a pretty good system provided you have it all set up and positioned well...