Hawk dust collection

[Rockytime]

The only way one can be dust free is collecting stamps or such.

[Goat]

My WEN Air Filtration System was delivered today.  Looks like it will work perfect for my work area.

Still trying to decide on a decent dust collector.  What do you guys think about the Masterforce™ 8 Gallon Certified HEPA Wet/Dry Shop Vacuum?  I didn't see what the FEIN or Festool level of HEPA filtration is, but the Masterforce claims 0.3 microns.  It also claims low noise.  I could get this vac and a cyclone for less than half the price of a FEIN/Festool.  Do you guys think this setup would be safe for indoor cutting?

[OCtoolguy]

15 hours ago, Goat said:

My WEN Air Filtration System was delivered today.  Looks like it will work perfect for my work area.

Still trying to decide on a decent dust collector.  What do you guys think about the Masterforce™ 8 Gallon Certified HEPA Wet/Dry Shop Vacuum?  I didn't see what the FEIN or Festool level of HEPA filtration is, but the Masterforce claims 0.3 microns.  It also claims low noise.  I could get this vac and a cyclone for less than half the price of a FEIN/Festool.  Do you guys think this setup would be safe for indoor cutting?

I've never heard of it. And I see you can buy one at Menard's for $81. For that small price, I'd give it a try but I wouldn't expect too much out of it. I'll bet it will be noisy and if it is that good at filtering out the dust, it might not suck well. But, like I said, for $81 I'd buy one and figure at the worst I'd have a good shop vacuum for cleaning up the place.

 

[Goat]

18 minutes ago, octoolguy said:

I've never heard of it. And I see you can buy one at Menard's for $81. For that small price, I'd give it a try but I wouldn't expect too much out of it. I'll bet it will be noisy and if it is that good at filtering out the dust, it might not suck well. But, like I said, for $81 I'd buy one and figure at the worst I'd have a good shop vacuum for cleaning up the place.

 

I'm thinking of giving this a try.  I could set this all up on my enclosed porch.  Just the scroll saw, air filtration and cyclone/shop vac.  It will be easier to heat than the garage.  If I'm happy with the results I can move it to the basement in only a few minutes.

[kmmcrafts]

18 minutes ago, Goat said:

I'm thinking of giving this a try.  I could set this all up on my enclosed porch.  Just the scroll saw, air filtration and cyclone/shop vac.  It will be easier to heat than the garage.  If I'm happy with the results I can move it to the basement in only a few minutes.

If you have a shop vac.. they make a hepa filter for your standard shop vac.. I don't use the hepa filter but do use the one for fine dust.. I also use bags as this way the dust goes into the bag and helps keep the filter clean. NOTE: they have different grades of bags.. get the ones for fine dust.. I have to say other than the noise.. my shop vac with the fine dust filter.. bags.. and I also have a muffler which is like a filter too for the exhaust.. I get literally no dust coming out of the vac.. I used this set up on my dust port of my Excalibur saw for a long time.. Oh.. I also have a dust right dust separator..  

[OCtoolguy]

I just went to the website for the Metropolitan Vacuum Company. They are the makers of the MetroVac500 and many other innovative items. I wrote a letter to them explaining that they might be missing out on a niche business out here with all the scrollers who are concerned with the fine dust and want to keep as much of it confined and caught as possible. I explained that some of us are using their products now but not as effectively as we might be able to if they designed, built and sold a vac system that could work on our saws with minor retrofitting. I left my name, address and phone number so we'll see if I get any contact back from them. They build some neat stuff for specialty industries. 

 

[Goat]

Hi again,

I finally got the Masterforce HEPA shop vac and duststopper (Home Depot brand cyclone) setup in the basement.  I made something similar to the pictures here to suck dust from the top and bottom of my delta.  I'm pretty happy with how strong the suction is.  I only did a couple test cuts to try it out and noticed that the blower from my delta blows allot of the dust past the suction tube. 

So I'm wondering do you guys not use the saw's blower once you have the dust filtration setup?  Or maybe I need to move it farther away from the blade?  I was also wondering do you run the air filtration system while your working in the "shop"?  Or only after you leave?  Since it has the auto off feature I wasn't sure exactly when I should be using it.

Something to note is this shop vac really seems to draw electricity when it starts up.  It makes the lights dim and I has to move it to a different plug from the WEN as it tripped the power strip.

Its been so cold here I finally had to move my saw in the basement.  My compressor seized up and the saw wasn't sounding too good.  Maybe the grease can't handle the cold?  I got 2 pieces I need to cut, then I can wait until warmer weather.  I also planed down some aspen to cut instead of BB plywood.  I figure this way I'm just having to worry about dust and not all the crap they put in the plywood.

Thanks

[OCtoolguy]

18 hours ago, Goat said:

Hi again,

I finally got the Masterforce HEPA shop vac and duststopper (Home Depot brand cyclone) setup in the basement.  I made something similar to the pictures here to suck dust from the top and bottom of my delta.  I'm pretty happy with how strong the suction is.  I only did a couple test cuts to try it out and noticed that the blower from my delta blows allot of the dust past the suction tube. 

So I'm wondering do you guys not use the saw's blower once you have the dust filtration setup?  Or maybe I need to move it farther away from the blade?  I was also wondering do you run the air filtration system while your working in the "shop"?  Or only after you leave?  Since it has the auto off feature I wasn't sure exactly when I should be using it.

Something to note is this shop vac really seems to draw electricity when it starts up.  It makes the lights dim and I has to move it to a different plug from the WEN as it tripped the power strip.

Its been so cold here I finally had to move my saw in the basement.  My compressor seized up and the saw wasn't sounding too good.  Maybe the grease can't handle the cold?  I got 2 pieces I need to cut, then I can wait until warmer weather.  I also planed down some aspen to cut instead of BB plywood.  I figure this way I'm just having to worry about dust and not all the crap they put in the plywood.

Thanks

I have the Wen air cleaner in my tiny shop and if I am in there doing anything wood related, I turn it on and let it run. It really does a great job of air filtration. I'm sorry to hear that you are experiencing the extreme cold. I have trouble going out to my shop if it's below 60. I wear shorts and I hate long sleeves or pants. I'm a wimp. And proud of it. Also, to your other question, I use the air blower on both of my saws and what doesn't get picked up with my little vac system gets blown off to one side where I have a 20" box fan with a furnace filter to catch the dust. It's amazing how much it catches. I still wear my dust mask even with all the dust catching stuff I have running. 

[Goat]

16 minutes ago, octoolguy said:

I have the Wen air cleaner in my tiny shop and if I am in there doing anything wood related, I turn it on and let it run. It really does a great job of air filtration. I'm sorry to hear that you are experiencing the extreme cold. I have trouble going out to my shop if it's below 60. I wear shorts and I hate long sleeves or pants. I'm a wimp. And proud of it. Also, to your other question, I use the air blower on both of my saws and what doesn't get picked up with my little vac system gets blown off to one side where I have a 20" box fan with a furnace filter to catch the dust. It's amazing how much it catches. I still wear my dust mask even with all the dust catching stuff I have running. 

Lol, yeah its been in the teens and single digits here.  Also I wasn't implying I wouldn't be wearing a mask, I have a fresh set of P100s for my 3M respirator.  I wanted to set up a box fan as well, but the only space I have for my saw the fan would need to be on the opposite side of where the delta blows the dust.  So the delta is basically just blowing into a wall.  I did buy another furnace filter and have it sitting against the wall.  Not sure how much help that will be.  I need the little space I have so I can spin the wood.

Do you think without the box fan it wouldn't be a safe environment to work in?  It would take allot of reworking the room, but I could if you think its needed to be safe as I'd be in there 4-6 hours at a time.

Thanks again for the advice.

[OCtoolguy]

1 hour ago, Goat said:

Lol, yeah its been in the teens and single digits here.  Also I wasn't implying I wouldn't be wearing a mask, I have a fresh set of P100s for my 3M respirator.  I wanted to set up a box fan as well, but the only space I have for my saw the fan would need to be on the opposite side of where the delta blows the dust.  So the delta is basically just blowing into a wall.  I did buy another furnace filter and have it sitting against the wall.  Not sure how much help that will be.  I need the little space I have so I can spin the wood.

Do you think without the box fan it wouldn't be a safe environment to work in?  It would take allot of reworking the room, but I could if you think its needed to be safe as I'd be in there 4-6 hours at a time.

Thanks again for the advice.

I don't recall what saw you have but I do know that on the Dewalts, Deltas and EX type saws, the blower tube can be removed and turned 180 degrees so that it blows the other direction. You might want to take a look at your saw and see if that's an option.

 

[Goat]

6 hours ago, octoolguy said:

I don't recall what saw you have but I do know that on the Dewalts, Deltas and EX type saws, the blower tube can be removed and turned 180 degrees so that it blows the other direction. You might want to take a look at your saw and see if that's an option.

 

 

I do have the Delta, but am not seeing anywhere in the manual that shows how to make the swap.  I was able to move the saw enough to put the fan in.  But its just blowing into the wall, but at least its sucking some air. 

I did a small 30 minute test to see how everything was working.  Am I missing something, or are you guys moving the top suction tube after every cut?  I couldn't find a good spot that was far enough away that I didn't have to move it.  Or maybe you guys remove the blade from the bottom?  I've always done it from the top, maybe I need to change?  I found if I put the blower directly inline with the suction tube there is almost no dust.  Now the bottom is a different story, the shape of the delta makes it hard to position the tube where I feel it would work best.  In my test I'm guessing its getting 50% of the dust.  So I need to figure out a better position or maybe even run a 2nd tube. 

I place some paper between the saw and fan.  After 30 minutes I didn't see any dust collect on the paper.  My glasses also didn't have any dust on them.  So I'm pretty pleased with how this is working so far.  I just need to make a few more tweaks and I think I'll have things under control.

[OCtoolguy]

13 hours ago, Goat said:

 

I do have the Delta, but am not seeing anywhere in the manual that shows how to make the swap.  I was able to move the saw enough to put the fan in.  But its just blowing into the wall, but at least its sucking some air. 

I did a small 30 minute test to see how everything was working.  Am I missing something, or are you guys moving the top suction tube after every cut?  I couldn't find a good spot that was far enough away that I didn't have to move it.  Or maybe you guys remove the blade from the bottom?  I've always done it from the top, maybe I need to change?  I found if I put the blower directly inline with the suction tube there is almost no dust.  Now the bottom is a different story, the shape of the delta makes it hard to position the tube where I feel it would work best.  In my test I'm guessing its getting 50% of the dust.  So I need to figure out a better position or maybe even run a 2nd tube. 

I place some paper between the saw and fan.  After 30 minutes I didn't see any dust collect on the paper.  My glasses also didn't have any dust on them.  So I'm pretty pleased with how this is working so far.  I just need to make a few more tweaks and I think I'll have things under control.

It's not in the manual but if you just look under the upper arm you'll see a couple of screws that when removed allows you to rotate the aluminum cover and aim the outlet port a different direction. Easy-peasy!

 

[Goat]

6 hours ago, octoolguy said:

It's not in the manual but if you just look under the upper arm you'll see a couple of screws that when removed allows you to rotate the aluminum cover and aim the outlet port a different direction. Easy-peasy!

 

Thanks.  I'll go have a look.

I reworked my suction tubes and now the system is working pretty good.  I pretty much see nothing under the saw now and the most of what is on top is from under the piece I'm cutting.  I might need to put a screen on them as a few times they have sucked up the scrap pieces and clogged the tube.  The only downside is the noise.  Earplugs are now a must with the shop vac running.  After a few hours cutting I'm thinking I might want something more heavy duty for the noise.

[Rockytime]

56 minutes ago, Goat said:

Thanks.  I'll go have a look.

I reworked my suction tubes and now the system is working pretty good.  I pretty much see nothing under the saw now and the most of what is on top is from under the piece I'm cutting.  I might need to put a screen on them as a few times they have sucked up the scrap pieces and clogged the tube.  The only downside is the noise.  Earplugs are now a must with the shop vac running.  After a few hours cutting I'm thinking I might want something more heavy duty for the noise.

Can you post photos of your set up? You should know the rules. No photo, it didn't happen.

[Goat]

4 hours ago, Rockytime said:

Can you post photos of your set up? You should know the rules. No photo, it didn't happen.

Lol, once I get the kinks worked out.

I ran into a couple issues and hoping you guys can help me out.  I bought the "duststopper" and bucket from Home Depot.  I'm not sure if the 3/4" PVC is too restrictive (I only have 1 90 turn, the rest are 2 45s to make a turn), but once its all hooked up the bucket kinda caves in a little.  I unfortunately didn't notice this until now.  It takes a few minutes for it to happen so I've already done turned to my saw by the time it happens.  Problem is when that happens it breaks the seal on the lid.  Best I can tell it only costs me some suction power.  I could only feel it sucking air in and seen no evidence of dust escaping.  For now I went around the seal with some aluminum tape.  I also put it inside a second bucket.  However I'm concerned dust could escape.  The second bucket alone helped some.

Do you guys think I need to run 1" PVC instead?  Or should I try a different cyclone? 

Do you think dust will escape when the seal is broken?  I know that sounds silly, but in my mind I'm thinking since its sucking air in that worst case should be loss of suction.  But I'd like to hear what you guys have to say.  I was in the room for several hours and the air appeared clear.  I also had my WEN air filtration running.

Thanks for the help

[rjweb]

I heard guys say they put a bucket in another bucket, don’t know if that will help, RJ 

and we need pictures or it didn’t happen!!!

Edited February 21, 2021 by rjweb

[Scrappile]

I went to a heavier bucket.  Mine is on a 5 gallon Behr paint bucker.... Not all 5 gallon buckets are the same.... Some have thicker walls than others...  I have also read about the bucket inside a bucket, but if one in inside how do you know if it is collapsing or not?   

[Goat]

2 hours ago, Scrappile said:

I went to a heavier bucket.  Mine is on a 5 gallon Behr paint bucker.... Not all 5 gallon buckets are the same.... Some have thicker walls than others...  I have also read about the bucket inside a bucket, but if one in inside how do you know if it is collapsing or not?   

My biggest question/concern is do you think dust will escape when the seal is broken?  I realize it effects the efficiency of separation and suction power.  But if that is the only issue and there isn't a safety concern then I'll be less paranoid about these things getting a leak.

I'll see if HD or Menards has a thicker bucket.  The bucket inside a bucket I think only helps it from totally collapsing.  I didn't really see any of the youtube videos showing the 2nd bucket fix and also testing for leaks.  I mean honestly its hard to even tell if just going off performance alone.  It seems to work fine.  I only noticed it as the vac slightly changes its tone.  At first I thought this meant my 3/4"PVC had a piece stuck inside.  And this seemed to be the case the first few hours.  But one time I just cleared the PVC and didn't start sawing right away.  I noticed the vac change its tone again.  Thats when I noticed the bucked was slightly caved in.  I went to move the bucket and where I grabbed the lid I could "hear" the air pass my fingers.  The collapse is pretty minor, I'm kinda skeptical that it would even change the shape of the rim.  Maybe this duststopper just doesn't seal as good as the others.

I think the aluminum tape actually did a good job at fixing the leak.  But this obviously isn't a permanent fix as I don't want to tape it every time I empty it.

[Brokentone]

From what I have read is that a leak will disrupt the cyclonic action and allow the dust to get to the vacuum

Bob

[Goat]

33 minutes ago, Brokentone said:

From what I have read is that a leak will disrupt the cyclonic action and allow the dust to get to the vacuum

Bob

Yeah, that's about all I read as well.  I didn't see anyone saying it was allowing dust to escape into the work room.

Home Depot has a HDX bucket, but I didn't see how thick it was.  Menards bucket is 90 mil, which is more than the Home Depot standard bucket which is 70 mil.  So I'm trying to decide which bucket to try next.  Menards isn't very close to me, so I might try the HDX bucket next.  The Oneida buckets in their kit (I noticed they use 2 buckets) say 100 mil, so the menards one might work.

I figure I could also use some of that plastic reynolds wrap around the seal as an extra precaution.

[OCtoolguy]

31 minutes ago, Goat said:

Yeah, that's about all I read as well.  I didn't see anyone saying it was allowing dust to escape into the work room.

Home Depot has a HDX bucket, but I didn't see how thick it was.  Menards bucket is 90 mil, which is more than the Home Depot standard bucket which is 70 mil.  So I'm trying to decide which bucket to try next.  Menards isn't very close to me, so I might try the HDX bucket next.  The Oneida buckets in their kit (I noticed they use 2 buckets) say 100 mil, so the menards one might work.

I figure I could also use some of that plastic reynolds wrap around the seal as an extra precaution.

I don't see that it's a big deal. If there is a leak, it's inbound, not outbound. It's a vacuum. I'd worry more about the shop vac and how long it will live if you have it wired to your foot switch. On/off will kill it in short order. And having it run constantly will become an irritant to your ears. Start shopping for a vac that is designed for how you want to use it. Also, after reading and watching videos, if you do too much downsizing from the vac to the nozzles, you will lose suction volume. I'm fighting that right now in the system that I'm building. I'm using a MetroVac with a 1 1/8" snout and if I downsize to 1/2" I can tell the difference. I'm try to keep everything to between 3/4" & 1". So far it's working. I'm also building a muffler for the vac that muffles without slowing the air flow. Pics coming soon.

[Goat]

8 minutes ago, octoolguy said:

I don't see that it's a big deal. If there is a leak, it's inbound, not outbound. It's a vacuum. I'd worry more about the shop vac and how long it will live if you have it wired to your foot switch. On/off will kill it in short order. And having it run constantly will become an irritant to your ears. Start shopping for a vac that is designed for how you want to use it. Also, after reading and watching videos, if you do too much downsizing from the vac to the nozzles, you will lose suction volume. I'm fighting that right now in the system that I'm building. I'm using a MetroVac with a 1 1/8" snout and if I downsize to 1/2" I can tell the difference. I'm try to keep everything to between 3/4" & 1". So far it's working. I'm also building a muffler for the vac that muffles without slowing the air flow. Pics coming soon.

Thanks, that is what I was wanting to hear.  In my mind I seen no way for dust to escape, but I've assumed things before and turned out I was wrong.

I actually have the vac running all the time at the moment.  I was only turning it off to clear the clogs and troubleshoot the leak.  I actually had no idea you guys turned the vac on/off after each cut.  Or that there were vacs designed to be turned on/off constantly.  I can see where it would be hard on my vac as it dims the lights when I turn it on.  I'm wearing ear plugs to help with the noise.  Its loud, but with the plugs in it just feels like noise.  I'll go pick some ear muffs up tomorrow.

I think I'm going to try and make everything out of 1" and see how it works.  3/4" is actually working great.  I have the tube about 2" from the blade and its sucking the scrap piece up instantly.

[OCtoolguy]

2 hours ago, Goat said:

Thanks, that is what I was wanting to hear.  In my mind I seen no way for dust to escape, but I've assumed things before and turned out I was wrong.

I actually have the vac running all the time at the moment.  I was only turning it off to clear the clogs and troubleshoot the leak.  I actually had no idea you guys turned the vac on/off after each cut.  Or that there were vacs designed to be turned on/off constantly.  I can see where it would be hard on my vac as it dims the lights when I turn it on.  I'm wearing ear plugs to help with the noise.  Its loud, but with the plugs in it just feels like noise.  I'll go pick some ear muffs up tomorrow.

I think I'm going to try and make everything out of 1" and see how it works.  3/4" is actually working great.  I have the tube about 2" from the blade and its sucking the scrap piece up instantly.

I probably didn 't make myself clear on the running of the vac. There are good vacuums that have a system incorporated into them that causes them to come on on demand. I have Fein vac and I know that Festool also has that feature. I had at one time a very good Porter Cable shop vac that had it also. I'm sure there are others and you can even build your own switch/outlet box that will do it for you. At this point, I have my on EX hooked up to my Fein vac but the other one is the saw that I'm trying to build a self-contained dust system for. When finished I will be able to take the saw anywhere I want and it will have it's own dust control. I am going to try to use it off the foot switch and see how it works out. If it goes bad, I'll know that it was n't a good idea and just have to get another Metrovac. They aren't all that expensive. In your case, you might go on eBay and look at the Oreck carry around vacs. They are on there always and I just bought one for $10 plus shipping. I will outperform the MetroVac a bunch. I will try that one on my EX that is hooked up the the Fein now. It's more of a game at this point to see just what I can come up with. The heart of the system though is the tiny cyclones that some of us bought on Amazon. I got both of mine, made of aluminum, for under $20 each. The price has since gone up and they are also making them out of plastic. Whatever, they work great. They have 1 inch ports and work great with the MetroVacs and the Orecks. Something to think about. In your case, if you can isolate your shop vac in another room or outside and use a remote switch on it, that will make life a lot better for you. Hang in there, you are well on your way.

 

[Rolf]

I have my Festool vac setup to come on with the scroll saw, the speed is set to low, most of the noise is at the nozzles, not from the vacuum.

[Goat]

18 hours ago, Rolf said:

I have my Festool vac setup to come on with the scroll saw, the speed is set to low, most of the noise is at the nozzles, not from the vacuum.

Festool 575280 CT SYS HEPA Dust Extractor.

Is this the model you have?  Do you know if it will do the low speed/come on with saw feature?  Now that I know about these features I'd really like to have them.  lol. 

This Masterforce always at full speed isn't ideal.  It runs HOT.  Its not so hot to burn you, but its enough you wouldn't want to touch it very long.  I'll dig out my temp gauge and see what its running at.  Its also mostly made out of flimsy plastic.  The last thing that bothers me so far is it seems to bog down or something randomly, even when I'm not cutting or have any clogs.  So I'm not sure how this experiment will turn out.  All I can say is its doing a decent job at this moment.