Scroll saw advice.

[RustyG]

As a beginner, although an avid woodworker, would I be better off with a Dewalt DW788 or a Pegas 21"? Other recommendations in this price range welcome.

[OCtoolguy]

Hi, and welcome to the Village.

Both are great saws but if you have the funds, go for the Pegas. It's by far the better saw of the two. If you are pinched for money, try to find a good used Dewalt to learn on and then you can upgrade later if you feel the need. I started that way and have progressed through 7 saws, all used, and now own 2 Excaliburs which are the basis of the Pegas. 

[dgman]

Welcome to the Village David! Ray above gave you some good advise. I’m on my third DeWALT in 25 years. My current saw is starting to show signs of wear. I just ordered  a Pegas from @Denny Knappen. Looking forward to my new saw!

[OCtoolguy]

16 minutes ago, dgman said:

Welcome to the Village David! Ray above gave you some good advise. I’m on my third DeWALT in 25 years. My current saw is starting to show signs of wear. I just ordered  a Pegas from @Denny Knappen. Looking forward to my new saw!

Congrats on your new saw Dan. At least when you get it.

 

[Scrappile]

I have had a Craftsman, DeWalt, Excalibur, Seyco and a Hegner.... If I knew when I started, what I know now.... I would have bought the Hegner first and skipped the rest,,, and actually spent less money..  I really think the same would apply to the Hawk.... But no one knows that beginning.... and in the beginning no one knows how much they will enjoy scrolling and stick with it... 

[kmmcrafts]

8 minutes ago, Scrappile said:

I have had a Craftsman, DeWalt, Excalibur, Seyco and a Hegner.... If I knew when I started, what I know now.... I would have bought the Hegner first and skipped the rest,,, and actually spent less money..  I really think the same would apply to the Hawk.... But no one knows that beginning.... and in the beginning no one knows how much they will enjoy scrolling and stick with it... 

I agree 110%.. even a well used Hawk or Hegner at the price of a new DeWalt etc.. way farther ahead in my opinion.. 

I had a Craftsman for 2 hours.. bought it brand new and it vibrated right off the bench.. took it back within two hours.. Had a Ryobi for 4 weeks while I rebuilt a old Delta.. Used the Delta for a year or so and then bought a Dremel run it 1.5 years.. then the DeWalt for 2 years before rebuilding it.. then bought my first Hawk.. then a second Hawk.. Then the new in box China junk Excalibur that I have fussed with for 3 years now before getting it running right.. Sometime in there I bought that new Hawk.. My first Hawk is a 1993.. I think it outruns the newer ones, LOL but between them all.. I'll never need another saw.. I have all three of these Hawks.. two was bought used.. then the new one.. All those other saws and the repair parts to keep them running cost me more money than all three of those Hawks..

[ben2008]

3 hours ago, Scrappile said:

I have had a Craftsman, DeWalt, Excalibur, Seyco and a Hegner.... If I knew when I started, what I know now.... I would have bought the Hegner first and skipped the rest,,, and actually spent less money..  I really think the same would apply to the Hawk.... But no one knows that beginning.... and in the beginning no one knows how much they will enjoy scrolling and stick with it... 

You got it right scrappile. I own a nearly 28 year old RBI Hawk and not one single problem in all those years. I spent 3 hours on it today and it still hums like new. I also have piece of junk Excalibur that I bought 8 years ago as a backup. Big mistake.  I should have looked around for a used RBI or Hegner instead. If I wasn't in my 80s I would buy a brand new Hawk now.

[TAIrving]

On 12/30/2020 at 9:31 PM, RustyG said:

As a beginner, although an avid woodworker, would I be better off with a Dewalt DW788 or a Pegas 21"? Other recommendations in this price range welcome.

I got my first scroll saw last summer, a used Porter Cable.  I learned enough to know that I enjoyed the hobby and that the Porter Cable saw was NOT the answer.  I complained enough that my wife implored me to please get a better saw.  I bought my Pegas from Denny Knappen and have been most pleased with the transaction and the saw.  I recommend the Pegas if you can afford it.  

[NC Scroller]

Between the two you listed I would go with the Pegas 21.  

[BadBob]

From the choices Pegas 21.

[don in brooklin on]

You don't say were you are from.  In Canada I would inquire how service would be obtained if required on a Pegas.

I have and older Excalibur EX-21 and it has been a workhorse for over 10 years. 

In the USA I would look at the Seyco as it has a great reputation for the machine and the service.  See Steve Goods post today.

In Canada, I would look carefully at the King as it made is the same shop as the old EX-21 and King has service all over.

 

 

[Roberta Moreton]

From your choices, Pegas. 

[rustynail]

 Seyco or a Pegas, The Seyco has a larger table.

[OCtoolguy]

1 hour ago, rustynail said:

 Seyco or a Pegas, The Seyco has a larger table.

You won't go wrong with either one. If after purchase service is really important to you, go with the Seyco. Ray is the best.

 

[NC Scroller]

3 hours ago, rustynail said:

 Seyco or a Pegas, The Seyco has a larger table.

PEGAS also has an optional larger table.

[rustynail]

The optional table is around $160.00 / $170.00 shipped.  I do have a Pegas and like it as it works great but with the extra cost for the larger table ???

[Terry Jay]

Over the 13 or so years on these and other forums, it has been a changing choice.  The RBI Hawk, then the DeWalt 788, then the Seyco Excalibur, and Hegner a favorite of a loyal group throughout.  The DeWalt and Excalibur had the same designer, and were originally built in Canada, then Taiwan.

I have 2 Hawks, a DeWalt 788 Type 1 (built in Canada) and a Seyco Excalibur.  I much prefer the EX because it lets me top feed the blade.  Opinions vary on this.  The DeWalt also does top feed, but the arm does not go as high so stack cutting can be a slight bit harder.  The DeWalt has an inclined plane tension device, so you can get more blade tension.  The EX is fixed tension, so in changing blades you can push down a bit on the upper arm as you secure the lower blade clamp to get a bit more tension.  Aftermarket blade clamps are available for the Hawks for the upper arm, which are an improvement on the original design.

A tilting blade is better than a tilting table if you make bowls or do inlay, simply because you do not need to factor gravity into the cut.  

They are all fine saws and very capable.  Pick one and go with it.  After a year or so you will know what works for you and for your work.  Best wishes, whatever you decide.

[kmmcrafts]

7 hours ago, Terry Jay said:

Over the 13 or so years on these and other forums, it has been a changing choice.  The RBI Hawk, then the DeWalt 788, then the Seyco Excalibur, and Hegner a favorite of a loyal group throughout.  The DeWalt and Excalibur had the same designer, and were originally built in Canada, then Taiwan.

I have 2 Hawks, a DeWalt 788 Type 1 (built in Canada) and a Seyco Excalibur.  I much prefer the EX because it lets me top feed the blade.  Opinions vary on this.  The DeWalt also does top feed, but the arm does not go as high so stack cutting can be a slight bit harder.  The DeWalt has an inclined plane tension device, so you can get more blade tension.  The EX is fixed tension, so in changing blades you can push down a bit on the upper arm as you secure the lower blade clamp to get a bit more tension.  Aftermarket blade clamps are available for the Hawks for the upper arm, which are an improvement on the original design.

A tilting blade is better than a tilting table if you make bowls or do inlay, simply because you do not need to factor gravity into the cut.  

They are all fine saws and very capable.  Pick one and go with it.  After a year or so you will know what works for you and for your work.  Best wishes, whatever you decide.

The Hawk G4 and the newest Hawks you can top feed with.. actually I have top fed my older Ultra style Hawk too.. But the ones with the round barrel style clamp is a definite no for top feeding as there is no way to hold the round clamp from spinning while trying to tighten the screw.. I don't know Hegners.. but I don't think they can top feed at all.. 

I somewhat agree with you though.. pick a saw and run it.. I think a lot depends on what type of work and how much work one is planning to do would depend on what saw I would recommend.. I believe the Excalibur, Jet, King, Pegas, Seyco, and type saws are the only tilting head design saws out there for doing angle cuts on a straight table rather than the table tilting for your angle cuts..

[Ace864]

I think that the Dewalt DW788 is one of the best saws, especially for beginners. My brother started with this one when he was just learning. He is still quite happy with it and didn’t replace it yet. I agree that sometimes it needs some maintenance, but it only depends on how often you plan to use it. I think that there are plenty of other options. I know that even for beginners, it is better to start with some famous brands, such as Bosch or Dewalt. I know that cheap power tools can cause some unpleasant accidents, so it is better to be on the safe side. Besides, you can check some guides online for the best scroll saw.

Edited January 14, 2021 by Ace864

[OCtoolguy]

4 hours ago, Ace864 said:

I think that the Dewalt DW788 is one of the best saws, especially for the beginners

I think it is by far the best mid-range priced saw. And for many folks, it will serve them well for their entire scrolling years. With maintenance!

 

[Rolf]

On 12/31/2020 at 6:40 PM, Scrappile said:

I have had a Craftsman, DeWalt, Excalibur, Seyco and a Hegner.... If I knew when I started, what I know now.... I would have bought the Hegner first and skipped the rest,,, and actually spent less money..  I really think the same would apply to the Hawk.... But no one knows that beginning.... and in the beginning no one knows how much they will enjoy scrolling and stick with it... 

I followed a  similar progression. Before I realized I would love this Hobby. A garage sale Dremel (pinned blades only) that I should have hooked up to my bed to vibrate me to sleep. A Craftsman that I inherited from my Father. Too many tools needed to change the blade, but I cut some ginger bread trim for my shed. Delta SS350, Great saw but its front back blade motion was too aggressive, that is what I don't like about the Dewalt. That is when I decided I really like this hobby and bought the Hawk G4 26 (2005) I did add the Pozgai clamp mod when it was available, by adding the Delta quick clamps. . It has paid for most of the tools that I have purchased since then, with my annual ornament sales.  I also now have a EX 16 with Pegas clamps.

I am not big on progressive steps when it comes to tools.  I now wait until I have the funds and fight my spontaneous buy urges. 

I would buy the Pegas if I were in the market now. Best clamps, and you can easily tune the front back stroke. just my opinion.

Edited January 12, 2021 by Rolf

[kmmcrafts]

Yep, I agree with Rolf, 

Many people are quick and easy to suggest a saw without really knowing what the intended user will plan to cut with it.. I can't imagine trying to cut some of that paper thin wood that they use to make pictures with different types of wood etc.. Can't remember what it's called but it's real thin wood.. I think it'd be pretty tough job to do on a aggressive cutting saw like a DeWalt.. 

Even a lot of folks struggle with learning and trying to keep a blade cutting where they want it to.. a aggressive cutting saw just makes that harder to learn.. so in my mind the best entry level saw is going to be one that has a adjustable blade movement for less or more aggressive cutting styles.. I'd say a Pegas would be about the best fit for a new person.. Not really built like a tank like a Hawk or Hegner but very versatile saw with all the user friendly adjustments and whatnot.. seems it would be about the easiest most sensible saw for a wide variety of scrolling styles and projects one might want to try..  

[Bill WIlson]

When I had my DeWalt, I never thought of it as aggressive.  I didn't have much to compare it to, at the time.  I had it for several years and cut some pretty fine detail with it.  When I got my EX-21, I played around a bit with the motor orientation, to change the arc of the cut.  I was able to get it to cut way more aggressively than my DeWalt ever did.  I was making some compound cut ornaments and wanted to dial up the aggression.  After that project was done, I stepped away from the saw and didn't cut anything for some time.  When I got back to it, I had completely forgotten that I had adjusted the motor.  I had a lot of difficulty controlling the cut on some fretwork.  It took me some time and a lot of questioning whether or not I had lost my touch, before it dawned on me that I needed to reset the motor.  

Now, I've never used a Hegner or a Hawk, so I can't argue that the DeWalt isn't naturally more aggressive than either of those saws, but I don't perceive it to be too aggressive for a beginner.

[Scrappile]

I think the DeWalt is one of the most used saws by beginners.  So, how can it be too aggressive for beginners...?  I really started on a DeWalt and as far as I was concerned it was not aggressive, I had really nothing to compare it with... After years of scrolling, I know the Hegner is less aggressive than the DeWalt and the Excalibur type saws... Does not make the Hegner better,,, it is just less aggressive.... You can learn to compensate for the aggressive cutting wit the blades used... I use a Hegner most the time,,, but I also use a Seyco... Like them both... but the Hegner FITS ME BEST.. Not the best for everyone... We are all different. 

[kmmcrafts]

1 hour ago, Bill WIlson said:

When I had my DeWalt, I never thought of it as aggressive.  I didn't have much to compare it to, at the time.  I had it for several years and cut some pretty fine detail with it.  When I got my EX-21, I played around a bit with the motor orientation, to change the arc of the cut.  I was able to get it to cut way more aggressively than my DeWalt ever did.  I was making some compound cut ornaments and wanted to dial up the aggression.  After that project was done, I stepped away from the saw and didn't cut anything for some time.  When I got back to it, I had completely forgotten that I had adjusted the motor.  I had a lot of difficulty controlling the cut on some fretwork.  It took me some time and a lot of questioning whether or not I had lost my touch, before it dawned on me that I needed to reset the motor.  

Now, I've never used a Hegner or a Hawk, so I can't argue that the DeWalt isn't naturally more aggressive than either of those saws, but I don't perceive it to be too aggressive for a beginner.

 

32 minutes ago, Scrappile said:

I think the DeWalt is one of the most used saws by beginners.  So, how can it be too aggressive for beginners...?  I really started on a DeWalt and as far as I was concerned it was not aggressive, I had really nothing to compare it with... After years of scrolling, I know the Hegner is less aggressive than the DeWalt and the Excalibur type saws... Does not make the Hegner better,,, it is just less aggressive.... You can learn to compensate for the aggressive cutting wit the blades used... I use a Hegner most the time,,, but I also use a Seyco... Like them both... but the Hegner FITS ME BEST.. Not the best for everyone... We are all different. 

Might depend on if your DW was a type 1 or 2? Remember all the topics of people drilling oblong holes on the front brackets to move the linkage so it was less aggressive? Remember reading about shimming the table to make it less aggressive? A lot of folks hated how aggressive those saws were.. Mostly started out with the type 2 saws I believe.. I had a type 2 but I guess as you all stated I never knew any difference.. did take me some time to get used to how fast it cut when I got it from the old Delta and Dremel saw I had before the DW.. took some time running the speed dial slower than I normally did with the other saws.. DW may have fixed this as there was a lot of complaints about them type 2's  

It doesn't affect everyone the same way.. and a different choice of blades can slow the saw down some.. ( ie some people say the Pegas MG blades are too aggressive.. while many others love them.. could be just the difference in the saw set up rather than blade. ) I used to use only FD UR blades in my old DW.. but when I went to a Hawk it seemed slow going.. mainly because the DW I was used to was a aggressive cutting saw and the Hawk not so much.. can get way better detail on the Hawk than the DW even though projects looked good on either saw there was a noticeably better crisper corners etc from the Hawk.. So using a slower blade isn't going to change the better detail of sharp corners etc.. However you can go into the corner and back out etc. and still make a nice corner.. just takes a little additional effort.. Many people go into a corner and back out and inch their way around to make a nice sharp corner on the DW type saw.. but with the Hawk you just go in and turn the corner..   

My point in my last reply is more about having a saw that you can adjust the aggressiveness is a nice option for a newbie to help them learn control and also help with either making it more aggressive or less aggressive for the projects you make..