Shelf Liner Observation

[kmmcrafts]

I've meant to post this the last time I used spray glue and got side tracked and forgot.. 6 months later here I am doing a larger pattern so I need to use spray glue instead of printing the pattern on a peel and stick full sheet shipping label.

SO here is what I've been finding.. The shelve liner has always worked real well for me... never had a issue with it being stuck too good and peeling up pieces of the wood fibers like I have seen others post about from time to time.. BUT, when I use the spray adhesive ( in this case I used 3M 45 but has done the same with most other brands I just never put it to thought that it was the adhesive ) I find that the liner comes up harder.. I do place the pattern on the liner / board while the pattern is still somewhat wet.. maybe next time I'll let it somewhat dry out more and see if that affects it. I notice that the liner looks like it gets soft looking if that makes sense like maybe the spray glue chemicals is softening or melting the liner some.. which maybe bleeding through the liner and making the liner stick to the wood harder? 

Anyway, just thought since I've just peeled off the pattern and it came off hard.. reminded me that I've been going to post this observation for a long time.. I just keep forgetting. Okay.. better get back to work..   

[ike]

I see all these post and the problems they have. I spray the 3m45 glue to the board ( a light coat not a heavy one ) then place the pattern on the board. I have never had the pattern come loose. Then when I want to remove the pattern I Dampin a ddrag with meneral sperits rub the pattern let it set for a couple of minuts and the pattern peels right off almost falls off. this leaves a slight amount of glue on the board wipe it off with a rag weted lwith meneral spirits wipe the board. e=feel it for glue and let it dry for a hour or so and It is done ready for the final sanding. A galon of meneral spirits useally last about 2 years

IKE

[OCtoolguy]

I'm nowhere near as experienced as most of you but what I have found is, after reading the hint by someone a long while back, if you spray the pattern very lightly with whatever adhesive you are using, and let it sit for 15-20 minutes, it becomes almost dry like contact cement. THEN apply your pattern to either bare wood, packing tape, blue tape or shelf liner. It will still very well and when it comes time to remove it, use a heat gun. It works great for me and if there is a spot that doesn't come right off, use a dab of mineral spirits. Well, mineral spirits if you're outside of California. Here in the sunshine state, we use turpentine/paint thinner. It smells so good too.,

 

[ben2008]

13 minutes ago, octoolguy said:

I'm nowhere near as experienced as most of you but what I have found is, after reading the hint by someone a long while back, if you spray the pattern very lightly with whatever adhesive you are using, and let it sit for 15-20 minutes, it becomes almost dry like contact cement. THEN apply your pattern to either bare wood, packing tape, blue tape or shelf liner. It will still very well and when it comes time to remove it, use a heat gun. It works great for me and if there is a spot that doesn't come right off, use a dab of mineral spirits. Well, mineral spirits if you're outside of California. Here in the sunshine state, we use turpentine/paint thinner. It smells so good too.,

 

That's exactly what I did for years, then I tried other ways to do it. I'm going back to my old way of spraying the back of the pattern and applying it directly on the wood or shelf liner.

[OCtoolguy]

3 minutes ago, ben2008 said:

That's exactly what I did for years, then I tried other ways to do it. I'm going back to my old way of spraying the back of the pattern and applying it directly on the wood or shelf liner.

A very light coating of adhesive and let it dry to almost dry. Then apply it and brush it out with a credit card. That really burnishes it to the material, no matter what you are using. I never bond to bare wood myself though. I don't like the idea of the adhesive getting onto the wood any more than necessary.

 

[Rockytime]

5 hours ago, octoolguy said:

A very light coating of adhesive and let it dry to almost dry. Then apply it and brush it out with a credit card. That really burnishes it to the material, no matter what you are using. I never bond to bare wood myself though. I don't like the idea of the adhesive getting onto the wood any more than necessary.

 

I'm with you Ray except I can't sit still for 15 or twenty minutes. I just plop it down. I guess I need to be more patient.

[lawson56]

I march to a different drummer, I have read over the years about adhesives, good sides bad sides, so I'll just stick to my carbon paper, I don't have to worry about glue, or extra sanding, It may take a little longer having to trace the pattern on to the board, but then the pattern last a longer,  And it's just the way I'm use to doing it. Happy Easter Every One!!

[FrankEV]

I have tried the direct application of the spray adheasive to the wood to apply a pattern and then removal with mineral spirits.  It works, but I find two things happen. 

1. One, adheasive is very difficult to remove completely requiring a significant amount of sanding and,
2. Two, the mineral spirits actually change the color of the wood slightly, almost like a natural stain.

I personally do not have any difficulty using the Duck Brand shelf liner I purchase at Walmart wich is much cheaper than using Blue Painters tape.  Removal after cutting is not difficult as I sand my cut panel very well before applying the linner.  After cutting, I need to do a bit of sanding on the rear side to clean up fuzzies, but little or none on the front side.  And, I also often maintain the pattern attached to the panel until after the panel is affixed to the backer, especially whan I do coloring to the backer.   

  

[ben2008]

15 hours ago, octoolguy said:

A very light coating of adhesive and let it dry to almost dry. Then apply it and brush it out with a credit card. That really burnishes it to the material, no matter what you are using. I never bond to bare wood myself though. I don't like the idea of the adhesive getting onto the wood any more than necessary.

 

I should have been more clear. I sometimes attach the pattern directly to the wood when doing Intarsia. I'm going to sand and shaped the piece so what little glue residue is left after applying mineral spirits is not really a problem. I never attach the pattern directly to the wood if I'm doing fretwork, way too messy.  I always use a clear shelf liner first then attach the pattern with spray adhesive.

[Rolf]

An interesting observation. I rarely use any spray adhesive, just my Xyron machine. 

The shelf liner is vinyl the spray glue has solvents.  An interesting test would be to take a piece of the shelf paper and spray some of the adhesive directly on to it . See wjhat happens.

[BadBob]

I try every method I find.

I use shelf liner for larger projects or where I need to see through it to avoid some defect in the wood. Otherwise, it sits on the shelf because I find it to be a pain to use.

Gluing the pattern directly on the wood and removing it with mineral spirits works well, except that the adhesive gets into the wood, and there is no way to get it out. It can take a day or two for the mineral spirits to evaporate from the wood. I can't do anything with the piece until it's done. I use this method for delicate pieces where the extra time and the adhesive residue aren't a problem.

Clear packing tape I don't like to use. I find the shiny surface to be annoying, and I have issues with it lifting. I used a lot of it when I first began using paper patterns. I tried taping the wood patterns and applying the tape first, and gluing the pattern to it. Neither method was satisfactory. When I tape the pattern to the wood, the glare from the shiny tape was a problem. When gluing patterns to the tape, I found that adhesives do not stick to the smooth surface well. I use it for taping pieces together for compound cuts and sealing boxes for shipping.

Carbon paper and tracing are unpleasant to use and produce inferior results. I stopped using this method as soon as I had access to a scanner.

I like the idea of printing patterns on labels. I have purchased a box of labels for this but haven't tried it yet. I keep forgetting I have them.

Blue tape is by far my favorite method. It's fast, sticks well even in dusty environments. Blue tape does not leave any residue, and I find it easy to remove from most of my projects. When I use blue tape, I can sand, finish or glue the piece as soon as I rename the tape. The only downside I have found is that it will lift wood fibers from some pieces. It sticks too well. In these cases, I use the glue and mineral spirits method. As for the cost, Steve Good posted in a recent blog post that blue painter's tape was his favorite method, and he calculated that it cost him about $1.50 per month. I don't know what it costs me, but I know it takes a long time for me to use a six-pack of tape.

 

[kmmcrafts]

18 minutes ago, Rolf said:

An interesting observation. I rarely use any spray adhesive, just my Xyron machine. 

The shelf liner is vinyl the spray glue has solvents.  An interesting test would be to take a piece of the shelf paper and spray some of the adhesive directly on to it . See wjhat happens.

I may try this and see what happens.. I'm certain that the patterns / liner comes off much harder than when I just use the liner with a shipping label.. I also hate the messy sticky glue overspray not only around the area of where it's sprayed but also my fingers.. Yeah I could wash my fingers with mineral spirits ( I'd have to buy some as I don't use it or keep any around or wear latex gloves etc.. but those things are also a hassle.. ) Just peeling a full sheet label and sticking it to the shelf liner seems to be the best method for me.. 

[danny]

+

After reading and thinking I will say I HAVE TRIED ALL MENTIONED METHODS....  Good n Not so Good. 

NOW....  I Love using the Printable Sticky Back Paper I buy from Amazon.  Cost is not Great, but Everything

has worked so, so Good for Months now.  Hate any Spray Glue.  Bad for the Lungs and Environment etc. 

Once I apply the Blue Painters tape.... Yea I messed up ordering.  I ordered PERMANENT BOND STICKY BACK.

Need to Specify TEMPORARY ....  Anyway I am Happy with this method....              Danny  :+}

[Rockytime]

2 hours ago, danny said:

+

After reading and thinking I will say I HAVE TRIED ALL MENTIONED METHODS....  Good n Not so Good. 

NOW....  I Love using the Printable Sticky Back Paper I buy from Amazon.  Cost is not Great, but Everything

has worked so, so Good for Months now.  Hate any Spray Glue.  Bad for the Lungs and Environment etc. 

Once I apply the Blue Painters tape.... Yea I messed up ordering.  I ordered PERMANENT BOND STICKY BACK.

Need to Specify TEMPORARY ....  Anyway I am Happy with this method....              Danny  :+}

I've thought of trying the label stock but am limited to 8-1/2X11. I guess one could tile the sheets for larger patterns but would, I think, kinda tricky.

[kmmcrafts]

18 minutes ago, Rockytime said:

I've thought of trying the label stock but am limited to 8-1/2X11. I guess one could tile the sheets for larger patterns but would, I think, kinda tricky.

Google or other search can be your friend when you think something isn't available.. Late last summer I searched around for larger self adhesive paper.. It's certainly out there and can be ordered.. I have yet to buy / try it because for me.. just doesn't seem worth it since I only have to do larger patterns maybe 4 times a year at most.. But.. anyway.. they have 11 x 17 full sheet label papers.. actually larger than that if you have a printer that can handle that.. My printer is maxed out at 11 x 17..    

 

Edit: forgot to add the link to the site I found.. Lots of sizes and layout options.. https://www.onlinelabels.com/uses/wholesale-labels

Edited April 4, 2021 by kmmcrafts

[OCtoolguy]

12 hours ago, Rolf said:

An interesting observation. I rarely use any spray adhesive, just my Xyron machine. 

The shelf liner is vinyl the spray glue has solvents.  An interesting test would be to take a piece of the shelf paper and spray some of the adhesive directly on to it . See wjhat happens.

Rolf, tell us more about the Xyron machine. I'm not familiar with them. Are they like the Cricut?

 

[rustynail]

https://videos.sproutvideo.com/embed/a49adbb21a1deecb2c/674ad6e591bccb9e?autoPlay=true&lightbox=true 

 

[TAIrving]

The XYRON machine does look interesting.  In practice how does it stack up against other methods?  How easy/difficult is it to remove the remnants of a pattern after cutting, I am thinking about fretwork with lots of tiny pieces to be removed.  Does it leave a residue? 

I see that the XYRON machine comes in 5", 9" and 12" widths at increasing prices.  I would pick the 9" one as many of the patterns I use are sized to print on US letter or A4 paper.  

I am following this with interest as I am running low on supplies (blue painters tape and 3M77 and understand the issues with those.  I have read about many other techniques and it seems all have some issues and am still looking for a better way to do the job.  

[Ceric ME]

On 4/3/2021 at 3:40 AM, lawson56 said:

I march to a different drummer, I have read over the years about adhesives, good sides bad sides, so I'll just stick to my carbon paper, I don't have to worry about glue, or extra sanding, It may take a little longer having to trace the pattern on to the board, but then the pattern last a longer,  And it's just the way I'm use to doing it. Happy Easter Every One!!

Talking about unconventional.  I've been toying with the idea of trying something like a Sewing tracing tool.
https://www.amazon.com/LUNARM-PCS-Tracing-Wheel-Professional/dp/B08941QJH8/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=pattern+tracing+wheel&qid=1617546313&sr=8-3

[Ceric ME]

1 hour ago, rustynail said:

https://videos.sproutvideo.com/embed/a49adbb21a1deecb2c/674ad6e591bccb9e?autoPlay=true&lightbox=true 

 

That's cool.

https://www.xyron.com/creative-station/
Now that is on the list of things I didn't know that I wanted till I saw it.

Edited April 4, 2021 by Ceric ME

[preprius]

Why hasn't anybody discussed this 

https://www.amazon.com/20-Roll-Stick-Release-Scroll/dp/B00I51270M

page down to the description.  

[Rolf]

3 minutes ago, preprius said:

Why hasn't anybody discussed this 

https://www.amazon.com/20-Roll-Stick-Release-Scroll/dp/B00I51270M

page down to the description.  

Probably because of the price.

Regarding the Xyron I have Two machines the 5" and the 9", the newer machine takes both sizes so you would only need the the 9"  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000E148DK/ref=dp_iou_view_product?ie=UTF8&psc=1 I would buy it from Micheals with a coupon. 

I still put the clear vinyl shelf paper down first. Then run my pattern through the Xyron, I use either non or removable, it doesn't mater as the removal is at the vinyl to wood.  

I always buy the refills when I have great coupons from Micheals, otherwise they are pricey. 

When I do intarsia I just stick the pattern directly to the wood, as it gets sanded off in the shaping process.

[Rolf]

 

On 4/3/2021 at 4:40 AM, lawson56 said:

I march to a different drummer, I have read over the years about adhesives, good sides bad sides, so I'll just stick to my carbon paper, I don't have to worry about glue, or extra sanding, It may take a little longer having to trace the pattern on to the board, but then the pattern last a longer,  And it's just the way I'm use to doing it. Happy Easter Every One!!

You would really trace a complex fretwork pattern?  You have a lot more patience and precision than I have. I do that for wood burning projects with a stylus. To me I find that to be the most difficult part.  I now do an acetone or heat transfer using a laser printout.

[Rockytime]

1 hour ago, preprius said:

Why hasn't anybody discussed this 

https://www.amazon.com/20-Roll-Stick-Release-Scroll/dp/B00I51270M

page down to the description.  

Yikes, expensive!

[Rockytime]

I guess after all of that I'll stick with shelf liner!