Shelf Liner Observation

[Rolf]

Just for giggles  More information than anyone could possibly want.   the 20ft roll of stick and release paper is almost $2 per 8-1/2 x 11 sheet

The Duck brand vinyl is 22 cents for an 8-1/2 x 11 sheet. The Xyron 9" x 40' refill is $28 on Amazon ( I get it cheaper with a coupon at Micheals.) ends up at 71 cents per 8-1/2 x11 sheet.

The pattern printing cost would be the same for any method. 

My Xyron method is  around $1 per sheet (8-5 x 11) . But what is nice I can us as short or as long a sheet as I want. 

 

[kmmcrafts]

1 hour ago, Rolf said:

Just for giggles  More information than anyone could possibly want.   the 20ft roll of stick and release paper is almost $2 per 8-1/2 x 11 sheet

The Duck brand vinyl is 22 cents for an 8-1/2 x 11 sheet. The Xyron 9" x 40' refill is $28 on Amazon ( I get it cheaper with a coupon at Micheals.) ends up at 71 cents per 8-1/2 x11 sheet.

The pattern printing cost would be the same for any method. 

My Xyron method is  around $1 per sheet (8-5 x 11) . But what is nice I can us as short or as long a sheet as I want. 

 

IF I'm doing my math right.. the peel and stick full sheet 8.5 x 11 shipping labels like I use is $0.08 each.. I buy large quantity for better pricing than what I can go to the local box store and get 20 sheets for so there is that.. I get 1000 sheets at a time and it's now ( priced raised as my last purchase at the beginning of the year was $60 ) $80.. You can shop around and probably find it cheaper.. I do try to buy this brand though as I've had some others that didn't stick real well.. may have been someone's old stock or something too since I typically buy off eBay.. Regardless.. to me it's worth it since you get all the sticky overspray from spray glues and the hassle of clogged nozzles etc etc.. sticky fingers.. buy the time you price out the can of spray.. your regular sheet of paper and the time it takes to use the spray etc.. peel and stick is just what works for me the best.. I still keep spray glue around for those 4-5 times a year that I do a larger project.. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1000-Shipping-Labels-Full-Sheet-8-5x11-Self-Adhesive-PACKZON/172818314778?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

[TAIrving]

Spray adhesive by 3M is getting scarce and expensive in addition to being messy.  I am going to try the full sheet labels that Kevin talks about.  

Edited April 6, 2021 by Algae

[Rockytime]

47 minutes ago, Algae said:

Spray adhesive by 3M is getting scarce and expensive in addition to being messy.  I am going to try the full sheet labels that Kevin talks about.  

3M getting scarce? I order it on Amazon but I find it at my ACE store. I'm just curious is all.

[Angelo]

3M 45 and 77, Amazon don’t ship these “stuff “ in California at least for now .

[lawson56]

On 4/4/2021 at 10:57 AM, Rolf said:

 

You would really trace a complex fretwork pattern?  You have a lot more patience and precision than I have. I do that for wood burning projects with a stylus. To me I find that to be the most difficult part.  I now do an acetone or heat transfer using a laser printout.

Yea I have always traced,I know it takes a little more time, but it saves a lot of patterns. I have some pattern's in my files that I have had for years, without ever having to make a copy of it. At least not yet.

[lawson56]

On 4/4/2021 at 9:28 AM, Ceric ME said:

Talking about unconventional.  I've been toying with the idea of trying something like a Sewing tracing tool.
https://www.amazon.com/LUNARM-PCS-Tracing-Wheel-Professional/dp/B08941QJH8/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=pattern+tracing+wheel&qid=1617546313&sr=8-3

That I don't know about. If it works for you let me know. I will give it a try.

[BadBob]

3M 77 Adhesive is not available in my area and the only one I found on Amazon was a 55 Gallon drum.

[kmmcrafts]

57 minutes ago, BadBob said:

3M 77 Adhesive is not available in my area and the only one I found on Amazon was a 55 Gallon drum.

Really a 55 gallon drum? Just thinking of all the fun pranks I could pull if I had a drum of that stuff.. Thinking the spray cans would last longer than the drum for me.. 

[NC Scroller]

2 hours ago, BadBob said:

3M 77 Adhesive is not available in my area and the only one I found on Amazon was a 55 Gallon drum.

I have always gotten mine at Lowe's or Walmart.  They are the cheapest sources I have found.  Price is under $10 a can and a can lasts me 6 months or more.  I have not looked in the last 6 months.

[Rolf]

The sewing tool will perforate your pattern and put pin holes in your wood. 

The only time I touch my original pattern is when I scan it. From there I can scale, edit (which I do frequently) and print as many copies as I need, especially when doing Intarsia.

[barb.j.enders]

On 4/4/2021 at 10:35 AM, preprius said:

Why hasn't anybody discussed this 

https://www.amazon.com/20-Roll-Stick-Release-Scroll/dp/B00I51270M

page down to the description.  

This product came up in a different feed.  http://store.workshopsupply.com/catalogue/scroll-saw-stick-and-release-tape-12-20-p-4418.html.  I just tried the link for amazon but it apparently is sold out so I don't know what the price is.  I was thinking of trying it from Workshop Supply but the shipping on the smaller roll was more than the roll itself.  Have to wait a bit to order other things as well!

[kmmcrafts]

Guys in my CNC groups use Oramask.. It's used for painting.. ie sand your blank and top coat with clear sealer of choice such as shellac or poly.. place the oramask on then carve the piece on the CNC. Once carved you paint the carved out area. without having to worry so much about getting paint where it isn't supposed to be painted.. then peel off the oramask. 

I'm not sure what the material is made of.. but I tried using shelf liner instead of the oramask as a cheaper product. But the CNC sort of shreds the edges of the shelf liner and also the paint softens the liner to create a large mess, LOL 

The oramask could be used in place of the shelf liner if you like paying more for products.. Also heard complaints about the oramask removal is hard as it sticks very well.. We used the stuff in the autobody world for custom graphic paint jobs like flames etc.. Good stuff but pricey. 

The scroll saw stick and release tape sounds interesting, but again.. seems a bit pricey considering the shelf liner is like $5-6 a roll.. and I want to say those rolls are longer that the 20ft. scroll saw tape stuff is.. I don't have issues removing the shelf liner when using the full sheet shipping labels.. but it is more difficult for sure when using spray glues.. Maybe if you are set on using the spray glues.. Oramask may be a better option or the scroll saw tape. I just know that the oramask holds up well with some pretty potent chemicals.. Then again.. it sticks well to so removal might be worst than the removal of some of those very sticky shelf liners.. Again, only time I have had issues with removal of shelf liner is when I use the spray glues.. Possibly need to let the spray glue dry out more on my pattern before placing it on the liner covered wood blank.. Maybe that's my issue.. 

[TAIrving]

3M 77 spray adhesive in the 16 oz can has been out of stock in my local big box stores for a while.  Yesterday it was out of stock on Amazon but today is available for $22.64, much higher than last time I bought it.  

Does anyone know what the issue might be?  

[Rockytime]

17 hours ago, Angelo said:

3M 45 and 77, Amazon don’t ship these “stuff “ in California at least for now .

Ouch! That's along with mineral spirits. 

[kmmcrafts]

3 hours ago, Algae said:

3M 77 spray adhesive in the 16 oz can has been out of stock in my local big box stores for a while.  Yesterday it was out of stock on Amazon but today is available for $22.64, much higher than last time I bought it.  

Does anyone know what the issue might be?  

Believe it or not.. Inflation.. We are seeing many many things taking huge price increases.. They are saying it's because of shortages and supply / demand.. But lumber specifically OSB and some building materials are through the roof.. I see the place I buy my BBply says.. "Call for pricing" I think if you all need some BBply and can find it at your usual prices.. Now might be a good time to stock up..

Also.. Danish Oil is scarce I haven't seen a price hike yet but I believe it's coming.. I like to buy it by the gallon.. can't find gallons anywhere.. I finally broke down and bought a couple quarts on Monday to get me by for a little while.. I've seen on some websites that the gallons are expected to be in stock ( I think ) April 19th? 

[Joe W.]

On 4/2/2021 at 10:06 AM, kmmcrafts said:

I've meant to post this the last time I used spray glue and got side tracked and forgot.. 6 months later here I am doing a larger pattern so I need to use spray glue instead of printing the pattern on a peel and stick full sheet shipping label.

SO here is what I've been finding.. The shelve liner has always worked real well for me... never had a issue with it being stuck too good and peeling up pieces of the wood fibers like I have seen others post about from time to time.. BUT, when I use the spray adhesive ( in this case I used 3M 45 but has done the same with most other brands I just never put it to thought that it was the adhesive ) I find that the liner comes up harder.. I do place the pattern on the liner / board while the pattern is still somewhat wet.. maybe next time I'll let it somewhat dry out more and see if that affects it. I notice that the liner looks like it gets soft looking if that makes sense like maybe the spray glue chemicals is softening or melting the liner some.. which maybe bleeding through the liner and making the liner stick to the wood harder? 

Anyway, just thought since I've just peeled off the pattern and it came off hard.. reminded me that I've been going to post this observation for a long time.. I just keep forgetting. Okay.. better get back to work..   

I just finished cutting out another cupcake holder for my sister-in-law saw.
And experienced the same thing you did using the Duck brand shelf liner - hard to release - had to use mineral spirits even after removing the paper pattern.
I think the manufacturer is using a different formula adhesive.  
I experienced the same thing a couple weeks ago, but in my book, two is a trend, so I'm going to up my patience level when it comes to removing the patterns to avoid ripping up any of the plywood.

[Joe W.]

On 4/2/2021 at 10:06 AM, kmmcrafts said:

I've meant to post this the last time I used spray glue and got side tracked and forgot.. 6 months later here I am doing a larger pattern so I need to use spray glue instead of printing the pattern on a peel and stick full sheet shipping label.

SO here is what I've been finding.. The shelve liner has always worked real well for me... never had a issue with it being stuck too good and peeling up pieces of the wood fibers like I have seen others post about from time to time.. BUT, when I use the spray adhesive ( in this case I used 3M 45 but has done the same with most other brands I just never put it to thought that it was the adhesive ) I find that the liner comes up harder.. I do place the pattern on the liner / board while the pattern is still somewhat wet.. maybe next time I'll let it somewhat dry out more and see if that affects it. I notice that the liner looks like it gets soft looking if that makes sense like maybe the spray glue chemicals is softening or melting the liner some.. which maybe bleeding through the liner and making the liner stick to the wood harder? 

Anyway, just thought since I've just peeled off the pattern and it came off hard.. reminded me that I've been going to post this observation for a long time.. I just keep forgetting. Okay.. better get back to work..   

I just finished cutting out another cupcake holder for my sister-in-law saw.
And experienced the same thing you did using the Duck brand shelf liner - hard to release - had to use mineral spirits even after removing the paper pattern.
I think the manufacturer is using a different formula adhesive.  
I experienced the same thing a couple weeks ago, but in my book, two is a trend, so I'm going to up my patience level when it comes to removing the patterns to avoid ripping up any of the plywood.

[Joe W.]

On 4/2/2021 at 10:06 AM, kmmcrafts said:

I've meant to post this the last time I used spray glue and got side tracked and forgot.. 6 months later here I am doing a larger pattern so I need to use spray glue instead of printing the pattern on a peel and stick full sheet shipping label.

SO here is what I've been finding.. The shelve liner has always worked real well for me... never had a issue with it being stuck too good and peeling up pieces of the wood fibers like I have seen others post about from time to time.. BUT, when I use the spray adhesive ( in this case I used 3M 45 but has done the same with most other brands I just never put it to thought that it was the adhesive ) I find that the liner comes up harder.. I do place the pattern on the liner / board while the pattern is still somewhat wet.. maybe next time I'll let it somewhat dry out more and see if that affects it. I notice that the liner looks like it gets soft looking if that makes sense like maybe the spray glue chemicals is softening or melting the liner some.. which maybe bleeding through the liner and making the liner stick to the wood harder? 

Anyway, just thought since I've just peeled off the pattern and it came off hard.. reminded me that I've been going to post this observation for a long time.. I just keep forgetting. Okay.. better get back to work..   

I just finished cutting out another cupcake holder for my sister-in-law saw.
And experienced the same thing you did using the Duck brand shelf liner - hard to release - had to use mineral spirits even after removing the paper pattern.
I think the manufacturer is using a different formula adhesive.  
I experienced the same thing a couple weeks ago, but in my book, two is a trend, so I'm going to up my patience level when it comes to removing the patterns to avoid ripping up any of the plywood.

[ike]

As I said before spray a light coat of m45 spray glue on the board when you are done cutting take a damp rag with meneral spirits wipe the paper in a fuew seconds the paper will peal off some times falling off. i then take the same rag and wipi across the wood and remove all the glue.   galon of meneral spirits will last about 2 years. no sweat to it.

IKE

[don watson]

Just called these guys and they only do A4 size. https://www.onlinelabels.com/uses/wholesale-labels

[kmmcrafts]

1 hour ago, don watson said:

Just called these guys and they only do A4 size. https://www.onlinelabels.com/uses/wholesale-labels

I don't think the people you called know what they're talking about.. It shows it available in 8.5 x 14, 11 x 17, and 12 x 18 inch sizes.. 

8.5 x 14 Link

https://www.onlinelabels.com/products/ol1588?src=dlc-385

11 x 17 Link

https://www.onlinelabels.com/products/ol915?src=dlc-385

12 x 18 Link

https://www.onlinelabels.com/products/ol1097?src=dlc-385

[don watson]

I have found the problem Kevin, as this screenshot shows, we are only allowed A4 in Europe. As you quite rightly point out, all sizes are available in the USA but we are limited to what we can have. I did find a site in the UK that does A3 (11" x 17") and have ordered 100 sheets (min. order). The cost of this is £50.46 when VAT is added (but postage is free). This means the paper will be used sparingly and will need to be factored into the price of the piece/s that I cut. I don't sell, it usually gets given away or donated so I will be extra careful.

take care and stay safe

[OCtoolguy]

10 hours ago, don watson said:

I have found the problem Kevin, as this screenshot shows, we are only allowed A4 in Europe. As you quite rightly point out, all sizes are available in the USA but we are limited to what we can have. I did find a site in the UK that does A3 (11" x 17") and have ordered 100 sheets (min. order). The cost of this is £50.46 when VAT is added (but postage is free). This means the paper will be used sparingly and will need to be factored into the price of the piece/s that I cut. I don't sell, it usually gets given away or donated so I will be extra careful.

take care and stay safe

I can't fathom living somewhere that you have no access to what's available in other countries. Why is that? If you are willing to pay the shipping and import fees, why shouldn't you have all the options available. I'm very curious.

 

[kmmcrafts]

1 hour ago, octoolguy said:

I can't fathom living somewhere that you have no access to what's available in other countries. Why is that? If you are willing to pay the shipping and import fees, why shouldn't you have all the options available. I'm very curious.

 

Always thought the same thing about those few states that have strict rules, California comes to mind as one of those states..  Being on many car and tractor forums and hearing how you can't add aftermarket exhaust and intakes.. can't get lacquer and other types of auto paints and cleaning solvents.. Not to mention all the products I hear on the woodworking sites where you can't get certain things like mineral spirits etc.. Certainly not a place for me..