Jim Erickson Posted April 30, 2021 Report Share Posted April 30, 2021 I have another maintenance question. The manual I got with the saw was for 226vs Ultra, but printed by Bushton. It tells you to oil the pivot bearings on the saw for routine maintenance. I just watched an RBI instruction video dated 1994 on the 216, 220vs Ultra, and the 226vs Ultra in which they instructed the new owner to oil the 216 because it has bushings, but that the Ultras didn't require oil because they had sealed ball bearings on the pivots. Which is correct? In my experience, when a tool has sealed bearings, you're instructed NOT to oil them, but I see folks here on the forum talking about oiling them. Are those folks talking about maintaining bushed saws, or bearinged saws? Help me clear up this issue. Do I oil my bearings or not? Thanks again for all the help. Jim OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCtoolguy Posted April 30, 2021 Report Share Posted April 30, 2021 Your saw is an Ultra if it has the "square" style of lower blade clamp. If not, it's not an Ultra. From what I have heard and read, just a few drops of oil at the pivot points is all you need. BUT, a call to Bushton might be in order just to clarify things. Also, there are plenty of more knowledgeable Hawk owners here that will chime in, I'm sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Erickson Posted April 30, 2021 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2021 Mine an Ultra. It does have the square clamps. Jim OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldmansbike Posted April 30, 2021 Report Share Posted April 30, 2021 The bearings in my 1996 Ultra aren't sealed so I put a drop of oil on them whenever I think of it and on the back wedge too. Just a drop is all thats needed. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmmcrafts Posted April 30, 2021 Report Share Posted April 30, 2021 My 1998 Ultra doesn't have sealed bearings either as I've had it apart. Well they might be considered sealed but they are actually cage bearings. All metal and they are down recessed in so it'd be hard for dust to get in them.. so maybe that is why they are called sealed? Anyway I took mine out.. dry as a bone.. Not sure it was the right thing to do but I put a high end synthetic grease on them. There should be a couple drops of oil placed on the wedge at the back of the saw.. and there should be a small hole on the top of the upper arm to put a drop of oil in that lubes up the tension cam and lever. The older saws don't have the access hole for oiling the tension cam.. Also a good idea to adjust the tension cam set screw if needed at every 25 hours of use during the oiling maintenance. The tension lever ( without a blade in it ) should have some resistance when flipping it back to the tensioning position before it reaches to where it would touch the arm.. That should start getting some resistance about 1/8 - 1/4 inch above where the lever would meet the arm.. Hope that makes sense.. If not I'll do a short video to show it and where the set screw is.. Real small screw on the underside of the upper arm.. should be almost under where the lever goes into the arm.. If that isn't adjusted to have some resistance then it can make you break blades or loose tension. The wedge at the back of the saw should have a fairly sharp point to it where it rest on the arm as well, If that gets rounded over it will also make the tension flex and can cause blade breakage issues. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Erickson Posted May 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2021 Kevin: Got the wedge, and the front cam, but I don't have the adjustment hole and screw. under the small black lever Looks like the earlier Ultra models didn't have the cam adjustment mechanism, and there's no tension on the lever when you close it without a blade. The only bearing I can actually see is the pitman arm? (the arm that connects the motor to the lower saw arm) bearing. The face of it appears covered with some sort of membrane to keep lube in, or foreign material out. The wedge is nice and sharp on the blade tension mechanism. The arm bearings (I assume there's one on each side of both saw saw arms, 4 total) are covered with a metal shell and could pass as spacers if you didn't know there were bearings there. Is that how your Ultra looks? Thanks for your thoughts. Jim OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmmcrafts Posted May 1, 2021 Report Share Posted May 1, 2021 (edited) I bet you have the set screw.. I'm pretty sure the pre ultra saws had them.. I could be wrong though.. The set screw is really small and hard to see. It is also recessed into the arm a little and you need a very small allen wrench to turn it. I'll try to remember to take some photos of it tomorrow and of how the tension lever is to be adjusted etc. If you don't have the set screw you're probably getting close to needing a new tension cam then.. I had to replace the one on my 1993 old hawk with the round barrel style lower clamp.. I upgraded to the new style so I can replace just the cam rather than changing the whole assembly. The upgrade cost like $50 but well worth it and it has the set screw adjuster too. Yes my ultra has the same 4 spacer looking bearings. If you take the arm off you'll see that one side of the bearing is open and you can see the ball bearings inside it. I'm not certain I should have greased mine but that is what I did.. plus I also do put a drop or two of oil on those areas about every 25 hours run time.. The bearings in the pitman arm are sealed bearings and do not require grease.. only throw them out and get new ones when they go bad.. In the past I used to carefully pry out the oil seal and you can pump a little grease in them with a needle grease fitting on a grease gun.. I don't recommend this if you've never done it unless the bearing is going bad and you're just trying to prolong some more live from it. Those bearings are only around $5-6 anyway. Edited May 1, 2021 by kmmcrafts OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Erickson Posted May 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2021 There is no hole under the cam leaver pivot , and of course no set screw. But for the milling cuts, no holes in the under side of the upper arm at all. There's the oil hole above the pivot, but no screw there either. Jim kmmcrafts and OCtoolguy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmmcrafts Posted May 1, 2021 Report Share Posted May 1, 2021 Well that is new to me, I thought they had this option on all the Ultras and even some before the Ultras came out.. Guess I'm wrong on that thought, LOL My Ultra has the older style nose and clamping system but it has the hole and the set screw.. but when that wears out I'm going to do the upgrade one like my new BM-226 has.. I did this on my old 220VS and love it. Here is the link to the upgrade, http://stores.bushtonhawkstore.com/upper-blade-holder-bracket-conversion-kit/ Reading the the description it says for the Ultra saws so I guess maybe they all didn't have the set screw and oil hole. Anyway this is the newest style they have on the new saws like my BM-226.. and it works on the older saws as well.. this was the fix for my tension issues on my 1993 220VS. I don't think they even offer that old of style anymore in parts. What will happen when that gets worn bad is.. you won't be able to keep tension on the blade.. and the lever will push down against the arm but when you let go of it it'll pop back up some.. especially when running.. It should lock down right against the arm and stay. My 220VS was worn so bad that they had a rubber band to hold the lever down.. you can run it that way once it gets to that point though you need to upgrade to the new one. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Erickson Posted May 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2021 Kevin: I looked at the kit. I don't understand how you can get to the adjustment screw without an access hole. My saw has the oil hole on the top of the arm, but no set screw that I can see. Did you have to drill an access hole on your 1993 220vs? Mine isn't worn to the point of malfunctioning. The lever has to be lifted to vertical before it will move on it's own. Jim OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmmcrafts Posted May 1, 2021 Report Share Posted May 1, 2021 The updated kit has the hole on the bottom of it.. the set screw is on that longer piece in the kit. It's not actually on the saw arm.. it's on that nose / end piece that pivots up inside the arm.. I'll see if I can get a photo of mine after a while. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmmcrafts Posted May 1, 2021 Report Share Posted May 1, 2021 (edited) I'll try to explain this: The end of the longer piece (number 5 ) circled and marked with a number 1 is the set screw. Number 2 is the tension cam.. just a round piece of steel with a hole off centered and a set screw to clamp it to the handle ( number 3). That cam sets in the spot where number 1 is on the longer piece. As the cam wears it only wears out the cam and the set screw.. The old style has no set screw and actually wears the end of that long piece (number 5) out and then you have to change the whole thing. The update allows you to just change the cam and set screw. Then you don't risk damaging the saw arm trying to press that roll pin ( number 4 ) out to change the whole assembly.. as they can be a bugger to press out if they've been in there for years.. The set screw I'm taking about should be placed on the under side of the arm piece at the end where it pivots and should be pretty close to directly under where the cam lever ( number 3 ) goes through the arm. It's really small and hard to see as it's usually recessed in the small hole.. Being under side of the arm and such a small hole.. it's kind of hard to see. Edited May 1, 2021 by kmmcrafts OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmmcrafts Posted May 1, 2021 Report Share Posted May 1, 2021 (edited) Here is some pictures. This photo is the upgrade kit on my old 220VS Another view of the update kit on the 220VS View of the underside of the upgrade kit on the 220VS and the set screw This is a shot of my 226VS Ultra View of the oil hole on the 226 Ultra. This hole allows you to get oil onto the cam and set screw.. The old 220VS doesn't have this hole. I used grease on it during assembly to prolong the life of the cam & set screw.. even so.. Once the upgrade kit is installed it's just removing the set screw and pulling the lever out.. change the cam and put it back together.. The original style I would have to press that roll pin out and change the whole assembly.. This is where I get resistance.. the lever won't actually go freely down to the arm This is a shot of the set screw on the underside of the arm on the 226 Ultra.. Here is a video of me locking and unlocking tension on the 226 Ultra. There is no blade in the saw... This is how it should "lock" the tension correctly. Edited May 1, 2021 by kmmcrafts OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCtoolguy Posted May 1, 2021 Report Share Posted May 1, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, kmmcrafts said: Well that is new to me, I thought they had this option on all the Ultras and even some before the Ultras came out.. Guess I'm wrong on that thought, LOL My Ultra has the older style nose and clamping system but it has the hole and the set screw.. but when that wears out I'm going to do the upgrade one like my new BM-226 has.. I did this on my old 220VS and love it. Here is the link to the upgrade, http://stores.bushtonhawkstore.com/upper-blade-holder-bracket-conversion-kit/ Reading the the description it says for the Ultra saws so I guess maybe they all didn't have the set screw and oil hole. Anyway this is the newest style they have on the new saws like my BM-226.. and it works on the older saws as well.. this was the fix for my tension issues on my 1993 220VS. I don't think they even offer that old of style anymore in parts. What will happen when that gets worn bad is.. you won't be able to keep tension on the blade.. and the lever will push down against the arm but when you let go of it it'll pop back up some.. especially when running.. It should lock down right against the arm and stay. My 220VS was worn so bad that they had a rubber band to hold the lever down.. you can run it that way once it gets to that point though you need to upgrade to the new one. The short term fix for that might be to use a Velcro tie wrap around it to hold it down. Edited May 1, 2021 by octoolguy kmmcrafts 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmmcrafts Posted May 1, 2021 Report Share Posted May 1, 2021 (edited) 36 minutes ago, octoolguy said: The short term fix for that might be to use a Velcro tie wrap around it to hold it down. Yes, I've seen many different solutions to hold that lever in the locked position.. Watching craigslist and other online market places for used equipment I've seen people use springs, cable ties, etc. etc. Thing is.. when shopping for a saw you have to realize this isn't right and that you eventually going to have a larger problem. Yet many of those people still asking $400+ for a saw like that.. And yeah it can be repaired with the upgrade kit.. so long as you don't get carried away trying to press that roll pin out and you do have a high risk of damaging the arm if you don't use actual roll pin punch set to press that pin out.. Good idea to soak it down a few days ahead of time with some penetrating oil. Don't know if Bushton still makes arms for those older saws or not.. But, I personally would have to consider this in the purchasing price of any Hawk saw.. It's not really a part that wears out very often.. even if you do not ever oil it... and maybe that's why the roll pin can be a bugger to get out.. likely been in there for many years.. Edited May 1, 2021 by kmmcrafts OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Erickson Posted May 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2021 Kevin: I see what you're talking about. My "nose" piece doesn't have the hole and set screw. There's just nothing there but bare aluminum. I'm not having a problem with the tension lever, so no need to replace the "nose" assembly now, unless the new "nose" provides some other benefit. Is the BM blade clamp different from the Ultra? (look pretty much the same to me) Thanks to you and Ray for your words of wisdom. Jim OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmmcrafts Posted May 1, 2021 Report Share Posted May 1, 2021 The blade clamps are different from the Ultra to the new BM series but the BM series shares the same clamp as the G4 Hawks.. They are pretty close to the same but they rounded off the corners on the G4 / BM series.. This is the Ultra lower blade holder: http://stores.bushtonhawkstore.com/lower-ultra-blade-holders/ And this is the G4 / BM series.. note the rounded corners. http://stores.bushtonhawkstore.com/g4-blade-holders/ I think the G4 / BM series is also slightly wider.. The Ultra ones fit in the BM as I've tried that.. but the BM ones don't fit into the Ultra. Also note that the early Ultra blade clamps pin that goes through are not a solid steel pin and they can and do get bent sometimes.. They no longer make them with the hollow ( roll pin ) because of the failure of them bending. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Erickson Posted May 2, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2021 Mine does have a roll pin holding the blade clamp in place. It also has some play while being fully clamped. With the blade removed, the arm "nose" can move .025" up and with the front clamp in the fully closed position, Will that cause a problem? Jim OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmmcrafts Posted May 2, 2021 Report Share Posted May 2, 2021 I don't think you understood what I was referring to with the roll pin, or else I'm mis-understanding your question. I was talking about the roll pin in the blade holder / clamp in the picture below.. They started with a roll pin but found the pin can bend when too much tension is applied or just being tensioned a lot over the years.. This is now made with a solid steel pin. I think you was referring to the pin that holds the nose assembly on? There should be a little play in that as you don't want it binding etc. and I believe this is still a roll pin on the new saw.. I'd have to look at mine to be sure of that though.. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Erickson Posted May 2, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2021 Kevin: I did misunderstand. Went and bought myself a 1/8" roll pin punch so I'd be ready when I needed to knock out pins LOL. Thanks for the info. Jim PS if I ever decide the change out the nose assembly, I'll have the right tool. kmmcrafts and OCtoolguy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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