Should I buy a scroll saw, or something else?

[Simpleman]

Ok, I want to build some fishing rod holders. I figure I can give everything from garage finish level to log cabin style to something you'd find in a hardwood-and-leather-laden study a shot, but I'm going to start with one for my neighbor's garage. I've never owned a scroll saw, and though I'm no stranger to woodworking, my forte is typically something I have to frame first, so I have some questions:
1. Is a scroll saw the right tool for this job? Would a band saw be better? I think a scroll saw would be more versatile than a band saw, but only for detail work, where a band saw could also be used for larger projects. A scroll saw will be way more flexible and probably easier to use on curves and for better detail.
2. Are there more practical uses for scroll saws than things that look neat? What can I use a scroll saw for in daily projects or for things that are more about function than decoration? Has anyone had an experience where they were doing something around the house and used the scroll saw to save a lot of time on something?
3. Should I spend the money on a rotating body saw, or will I be satisfied with a tilting table model? The price difference is huge, and I'm a beginner.
4. I have a gift card to Home Depot. Any recommendations from there? How is Shop Fox brand? It says they're made in the US on their site, but I don't know if that applies to their home depot level equipment. Do you recommend any specific brands available at Home Depot? I'm pretty insterested in using that gift card on a new tool.
I hope this isn't too much to get some responses on. I appreciate the help.

[jollyred]

Scroll saws are at their best cutting wood 3/4" and thinner.  They can cut thicker wood, but not easily.  I think most can cut up to 1 1/2", but that is a pita.  They also have a limited cutting capacity, with the depth of the table's throat limiting the area that can be cut.  If a cut is farther from the edge of the board than the depth of the throat, it cannot be cut with that scroll saw.  Also, scroll saws are not the tool of choice for cutting straight lines.  That is what a table saw or track saw is for. 

        If I were building fishing rod holders, I would choose the saw based on the thickness of the wood, which would probably be 3/4", so a scroll saw would be a good choice for any curved areas.  You could cut the straight parts with the scroll saw and then plane or sand them to the straightness required.  The main reason I would choose the scroll saw for this over a band saw is that the edges cut on the scroll saw require minimal sanding, mainly to remove the fuzzies on the corners of the cut.  If you are going to rout the edges, then even that is not necessary.  With a band saw, all the edges would need sanding to remove the saw marks and smooth the curves, which can take a lot of time.  This could also be cute with a jig saw, but the edges again needing sanding.

For more on choosing a scroll saw, you can look for some of the videos by Steve Good on You tube.  He and many others have discussed this topic in great detail.

Tom Wilson

 

[preprius]

I went through this question recently. My situation did have a difference.  Should I keep my scroll saw or sell it to get laser cutter?

I joined this group 6 months ago to learn what I can do with scroll saw.

I learned that my entry level scroll was limiting my creativity.  Because of frustration.   Not being able to hold blades very well was a big reason.   

My midset started off what can I do that laser cutter can't.  So just starting off and trying some hard projects with entry level saw was a bad idea. 

But because I had a want to do something that a laser can not do I got advice from this village to get a good saw on craigslist. With everyones help here I found a great saw Hawk for $400.00.

A lot of my frustration instantly went away.  Lasers cutters can not cut at an angle.   So I made bowls from single board.  I tried successfully to angle cut to inlay top wood into bottom wood. Stack cutting at small angle.  That is cool.

I tried to cut a pattern into a small diameter branch.

I found and kinda got hooked on "intarsia" art pieces.

Notice I tried different stuff.  I have not tried "fretwork".  Yet.  Lasers can do this BUT these guys here do some amazing stuff.  So I will try fretwork soon. 

There is functional wood art, Kinectic art.  This sounds really cool also. 

So your question is found through out this site.   

My advice is get a good saw to start with.  Craigslist or local ebay.  Make your fishing pole holders.  Then start asking yourself what else can I make.

If you do not like the saw. Sell it for more money you paid for it.

 

 

 

[Simpleman]

Jollyred, Thanks for replying. I finally read something about the limitations regarding the thickness of the wood. Finding useful information online is hard to do sometimes these days. There were mentions regarding the "throat" as well. I haven't looked up any tool diagrams yet, but I assume that's the distance between the top blade holder and the tabletop. I'm certain I don't have some terms right. I was hoping to be able to cut thicker wood, though 3/4 would more than work for the project at hand. I dislike jig saws because the tip of the blade 'walks' with the grain sometimes and causes uneven cuts no matter how slow and controlled I am. Unfortunately, for what I'm doing, and what the tool is used for most, I think I'd be better off right now with a hole saw and a jig saw - and sand paper.

Preprius, Thank you for replying. Everything you said makes sense. I was going to get a $130.00 model to make the rod holders from, but I knew in the back of my mind that while I wasn't getting the bottom of the barrel model, most of the problems I would encounter would have to do with my inexperience and the limitations of the tool. A pivoting table instead of a pivoting head just gave me an uneasy feeling by itself. I saw way better models online used, still for more money, but my biggest fear from the second I started looking is that a weak tool will produce weak results with greater effort, and I expected fragile blades to begin with if you don't know what you're doing, but cheap tools usually equals a harder time in my experience in all areas, blade breakage being one of them.

I think a scroll saw is one that I'll wait on until I can get a nice one with all the features I want and a dedicated stand. Until then, there's more than one way to skin a cat, and I'm pretty resourceful. I had hoped to learn a new tool - hopefully the best for the job by such a longshot that I'd be a fool not to use one, but it's looking like my options are relatively equal for this specific project, so I think I'll wing it now and get something worthwhile in the future to play with. My interests lie primarily in the practical at the moment, but as I evolve, I expect to get more intricate and artistic. I want to make fine hardwood furniture some day - just for myself, really - and I know that the things a scroll saw can do will help me make it have stupid little features like I like to give my larger projects. Little hidden compartments and stuff.

Thank you both for your input!

[Simpleman]

I'm ignorant of name brands right now. They're mostly made in China. I believe in supporting the companies and people in the land I live in. When you guys need home depot grade tools, what name brands do you trust?
How about better grade tools?
This applies to all tools.
I build stuff constantly. I've never had any formal training, just stuff I've picked up along the way. It's fun. I intend to keep going, and event to get bigger and fancier. I'd like to build my own house one day.
In the meantime, are there any known brands that still manufacture in the US? Any brands stand out above the rest for you?

Edited June 11, 2021 by Simpleman

[Tomanydogs]

@Simpleman I have to disagree and I’m sure some okay lots would disagree with me. I bought a new not used $185.00 Canadian funds scroll saw and it’s not even close to top of the line obviously  but I’ve scrolled on it for 4 years and it does everything I want it to, it doesn’t hold me back. And blade breakages are my doing (using them till they run out of blade) not the scroll saw. Just saying best is great, but okay works too. 

Edited June 11, 2021 by Tomanydogs
Lots would probably disagree with me.

[preprius]

37 minutes ago, Tomanydogs said:

@Simpleman I have to disagree and I’m sure some okay lots would disagree with me. I bought a new not used $185.00 Canadian funds scroll saw and it’s not even close to top of the line obviously  but I’ve scrolled on it for 4 years and it does everything I want it to, it doesn’t hold me back. And blade breakages are my doing (using them till they run out of blade) not the scroll saw. Just saying best is great, but okay works too. 

 

Just to clarify. My entry level could not hold blades. It didnt break them. My unit did not have a lot of vibration but my neighbors did.  I was trying to saw 2.5 inches of wood also.  The blade always came out of the bottom clamp.  So I had to run with less blade tension.  I was trying hard wood and needed higher tension.

 

[WayneMahler]

Thinking a little differently. For the fishing rod holders, use a jig saw to cut them and a router for doing the edges with round overs. Need to cut a straight line? Use  guide it is pretty easy. Jig was are very versatile and a decent one with good blades will last a very long time. Mine is about 14 - 15 years old and still going strong with almost daily use. Band saws are great for cutting thicker wood, re-sawing boards and cutting curves. This band saw boxes. You are limited by the depth of the throat and the power of the motor. Scroll saws are quite versatile. They can cut delicate art to some more bulky items. The thicker the wood the slower you go and using the right blade. All things have a learning curve. For scrolling, this is the best place you could ever find. Great people willing to help and supply answers or suggestions. I use a scroll saw for a lot of things, I do have a good one though. Before investing a lot of money to get a decent tool sit down and think of the types of projects you want to do. Then get the best tool for the job you can afford. You can always grow and learn new things as you go along. I have been at this for a good while and still learn something each and everyday. So grab a coffee a comfy seat and give some serious thought as what you want to do. You will be much happier and satisfied in the end. One last thought. There is NO one tool that does everything never has been, never will be.

[Tomanydogs]

13 hours ago, preprius said:

 

 

[Tomanydogs]

14 hours ago, preprius said:

 

Just to clarify. My entry level could not hold blades. It didnt break them. My unit did not have a lot of vibration but my neighbors did.  I was trying to saw 2.5 inches of wood also.  The blade always came out of the bottom clamp.  So I had to run with less blade tension.  I was trying hard wood and needed higher tension.

 

I have to admit I have my scroll saw in a heavy duty metal welders table, so I get zero vibration. And I had top blade slippage problems. I had to rework that situation, now I need two hands to tighten the top blade. Also need to change out the screw and nut out every few weeks. Time consuming yes, but doable. If you saw my saw setup you would think “what the heck”. Do I think a better saw would be nice, yes I do, but this one works for me. 
I wish my saw could accept 2.5 “ thick wood.  

Edited June 11, 2021 by Tomanydogs

[OCtoolguy]

Nobody mentioned that the  bandsaw can only cut outside lines. The scroll saw can cut both inside and outside. I have both types of saw as well as a cheap jig saw. I don't make decorative stuff. I like to make things that have a function. Boxes, bowls and baskets so far have been my interest. In my mind I think I see what you want to make and I can see where you might want both a bandsaw and a scroll saw. If you do decide to buy a scroll saw, stay away from any of the under $200 saws. They will more than likely just frustrate you. For that same amount or maybe a bit more, you can find a good used middle to top end saw. I just purchased  on Craigslist a Hegner 18" Multimax saw that retails for $1500. I bought it for $250. I'll pick it up tomorrow. There are so many used saws for sale that you should be able to find a good Dewalt, Delta, Hawk, Excalibur or Hegner for under $500 and that's the top figure. So far, I've not spent more than $300 on any of the used saws that I have purchased. I now will have 3 of the very best saws made and none of them have the "Made in China" label attached to them. That is a real "plus"  in my book. Best of luck in your decision making but I don't think you will go wrong with a scroll saw. They can be used for many things. And welcome to The Village. Many great and knowledgeable folks here. I came here a total newbie knowing nothing about scrolling and these great folks have helped me every inch of the way. Thanks to all!

 

[kmmcrafts]

PS Wood machines sells a USA made scroll saw at the mid price points. I have no experience with them but I do see them from time to time really cheap on craigslist and other used selling sites. Hawk scroll saws are also made in the USA, but pricing is up there with those other high end tools. None of these would be available at a Home Depot or other stores as they are sold by the actual manufacture of the saw so no middle man to make money off your purchase. 

As for functional projects made with a scroll saw.. Puzzles, Clocks, Key Racks, Dog leash holders, magazine racks, Jewelry boxes, shelves, toy cars, I'm sure there are many more things. Not knowing where you're from but if around Michigan I have a Hawk that I'm going to be selling and possibly a Excalibur as well.  

[Simpleman]

WayneMahler, thank you for your input.

My problem with jig saws is simply that the unfixed end of the blade can (and often does) walk out from under the cut line. I'm actually pretty skilled at controlling tools once I get used to using them. I can take a jig saw though, follow a line perfectly on top of the board, the tool flatly resting on the piece being worked on, no hard pressures being applied, flip it over, and the blade has walked to find the easier cuts between the softer grains. (I assume this is what's happening.) The blade appears to be perfectly straight to look at it static. On a thin piece of flat plywood shelving for garage storage, it's no big deal. For something thicker that will be on display, the deviation can be immense, and devastating to the piece, so it then has to be remade. I admit fully that I'm probably not doing something correctly, using the wrong blade, cutting outside of the tool's recommended thickness or maybe the guide plate is bent, and no amount of adjustment to "0" will do anything to aid me. I can't count the number of times I've seen a power hand tool fall to the floor; as careful as I am, it's even happened to some of my own. Knowing that the guide plates on things like a $30 jig saw are made out of stamped garbage thin-gauge steel, (in my personal opinion) it wouldn't surprise me to learn that half of the tools I've ever used are bent in that way. I admit that maybe buying a $30 jig saw isn't recommended. Maybe it's all me. At any rate, I try to avoid jig saws on display pieces for that reason alone. That led to this thread.

My main curiosity regarding a scroll saw is whether or not I'd use it. I can't ask that question specifically here. None of you can answer that for me, so I decided to be more specific and ask what else a scroll saw can do. kmmcrafts (thank you, sir) had a good answer there by listing a bunch of things I could make with one, which is kinda what I was hoping for without knowing it. While I honestly can't see myself making some of that stuff, they sparked a couple of ideas. I'm still unsold at this particular moment in time, but I will own one eventually, I think. I still don't know what I'd make, but certainly I could fit it in somewhere. I like to make wooden latches and hooks and catches and whatnot when I build storage spaces. This seems like something I could get way better accuracy with and make more complex machinations than I can even think of right now. I seriously keep it simple usually, but I've been doing more things like custom closet storage and whatnot, and having certain types of detail control might be nice.

octoolguy, I envy your find in the $1500 saw for $250. I'll be keeping an eye on craigslist. I also agree that I probably need both a band saw and a scroll saw. The "made in USA tag is important to me, too. There's a lot of garbage being imported these days. Additionally, I simply don't know a lot of the brands that are available. You can't see everything in stores these days, and while I feel fine buying a drill at home depot, I know I should probably be more particular with something like this for some reason.

Tomanydogs, I'm fortunate to have a heavy wooden workbench to clamp or screw the scroll saw to. Given the reciprocating nature of a scroll saw, it may not be enough, but I have tools and the mind to fix that if I need to. Also, I had considered the cheaper scroll saw carefully. I think one of the things that initially steered me away from it is that I thought I could cut thick wood with it. Although I know I can cut thicker wood than I should be cutting with one, it seems that scroll saw work is best left to 3/4" or thinner, and I've had several people tell me thinner yet. I never had any intention of ripping hardwood boards with it, but it's even more fragile than I knew. I had hoped that standard 2x pine framing lumber could be used, as I mostly do practical things with wood, but it seems that's even iffy.

Here's a list of things I think I want in a scroll saw when I find. Can anyone tell me if I'm on the right track?
1. tilting head, not tilting table
2. foot pedal (I suppose I could add this to any of them)
3. the ability to take all styles of blades

Is two-direction useful? I saw that on an ad. There's a WEN at home depot that specifically states two direction. I'm not going after the brand name, but if that's a useful feature, I'll look for it.

OK, I write too much.

[Simpleman]

Have any of you made a functioning lock with tumblers out of wood?

[Simpleman]

I responded to everyone in that last long one I wrote, I think. I realize there's nothing highlighting other peoples' names.

[Simpleman]

Kmmcrafts, I don't want to get too personal, but would it be ok to ask how much business you do? I don't want a dollar amount; I guess I'm asking if you could hypothetically live solely off of your scroll saw work. You don't have to tell me if you do or not. You have a LOT of impressive items on your website. I cannot even imagine the number of hours you put into just what I see online. It would be interesting to know if it's a decent profit generator. Even if it just paid for your own woodworking addiction, it'd be worthwhile to me. Don't worry, I'm not likely to be competing with you at any point soon. I don't even know what I'd make yet. Or own a saw. Or have any ideas.

[OCtoolguy]

1 hour ago, Simpleman said:

I responded to everyone in that last long one I wrote, I think. I realize there's nothing highlighting other peoples' names.

If you put the @ symbol before their name (@simpleman), it will show up in your post and get that person's attention.

 

[OCtoolguy]

I realize that being made in the U.S.A. is important to you but there are some very fine saws made in other countries. Not everything comes from China. Even though it seems that way. The saw that I'm buying right now is made in Germany and marketed through an American company. The Pegas is made in Taiwan by a Swiss company that is closely monitoring quality control. The two Excaliburs that I have were made in Canada and Taiwan with excellent quality control. The new version of Excalibur is being made in China and is inferior so far. Any saw that sells under $200 is a saw to be wary of. Some folks have good luck with them but many more don't. It becomes a thing of either they learn to put up with it's shortcomings or they give up and get so frustrated that they quit. That is a shame because it's such a great hobby. You also mentioned cutting thick wood. Here is a pic of something that I made that had 20 pieces cut compound, that means cutting from more than one side. The parts I'm referencing are cut from blocks of mahogany that are 1 3/4" Wide by 3" long. Each one took about an hour to cut using Pegas #5 mgt blades. They were cut on my Ex 21 saw. Tilting and lifting arm.  I attach these two pics to show that you can cut thick wood on a scroll saw. The second pic I am showing it to demonstrate how I used the tilting head to cut a bowl out one piece of 3/4" mahogany. 

[Simpleman]

@octoolguy
Thank you! I knew there was a way to do it, but I'm unfamiliar with this platform.

That bowl looks like it took a lot of dedication. It's beautiful. I have to admit that the inlay (?) in the bottom dish is interesting to me. I always wondered how people did that. I'd be interested in creating mosaic pictures. It would be about as close to purely ornamental as I would get. It seems like it'd be a good skill to have for making decorative accents in furniture, too.

Very nice work.

My interest in US-made gear is highest, as I think we should be supporting the economy of the region we live in, but my main concern is quality control. China has a bad record there. I'd gladly use a German or Swiss tool, even if it's made in Taiwan, as long as it's good. I'd use a Chinese tool if it was truly a quality tool, but their record in that regard has caused me to default as far from that potential garbage as possible. That isn't the first time I've read that Excalibur turned to garbage when they switched to Chinese manufacturing, either, and I've only been looking into this for a couple of days now. That doesn't bode well for them.

[kmmcrafts]

Well it's definitely a job as I do this full time. If you like working for yourself and working hard it can be living from selling crafts. Not easy to do, we did it for a while solely on selling my crafts but feeding 3 teens made money quite tight, .. 

[OCtoolguy]

36 minutes ago, Simpleman said:

@octoolguy
Thank you! I knew there was a way to do it, but I'm unfamiliar with this platform.

That bowl looks like it took a lot of dedication. It's beautiful. I have to admit that the inlay (?) in the bottom dish is interesting to me. I always wondered how people did that. I'd be interested in creating mosaic pictures. It would be about as close to purely ornamental as I would get. It seems like it'd be a good skill to have for making decorative accents in furniture, too.

Very nice work.

My interest in US-made gear is highest, as I think we should be supporting the economy of the region we live in, but my main concern is quality control. China has a bad record there. I'd gladly use a German or Swiss tool, even if it's made in Taiwan, as long as it's good. I'd use a Chinese tool if it was truly a quality tool, but their record in that regard has caused me to default as far from that potential garbage as possible. That isn't the first time I've read that Excalibur turned to garbage when they switched to Chinese manufacturing, either, and I've only been looking into this for a couple of days now. That doesn't bode well for them.
 

Thank you for the compliment. I wasn't fishing but it's always nice to be recognized. I just wanted you to see what can be done with a scroll saw. As for the tilting head or table, it probably won't make that much difference unless you want to do a lot of of kilter work. If you can come across a nicely priced Hegner saw, even if it wasn't the latest greatest, as long as it's a Hegner in decent shape, you'd probably be able to do most everything you want to do. Hegner, Hawk, Seyco, Pegas, Dewalt, and Delta are all great saws but as far as being made here in this country, the Seyco and the Hawk are the only offerings that I know of. Since you have found your way her to the Village, whatever you find out there used, well just ask and somebody will give you the info you are seeking.

 

Edited June 13, 2021 by octoolguy

[kmmcrafts]

Ray, I think the Seyco saw is made in the same place the Pegas, King, and Jet saws are made as well as the "old" Excalibur. I think the only saw made in the USA is PSWoods and Hawk. Last I knew PSWood saws was doing a redesign of the saw and they currently are not selling any until the new one comes out, IF it does ever.. as this has been the case now for over a year and maybe more like 2-3 years. I looked into buying one back when I bought the new Hawk. Much cheaper saw but a lot less bells and whistles for a production cutter that would make it not very productive. Seem well built.. just blade changing and other things needed improvement.. but again, you sometimes get what you pay for.. Those saws are only $550 - 750 depending on what one you get.. as opposed to the $1200 - 1500 for a Hawk. 

[CSull]

I was " Scroll curious" when I got into scrolling.  I found a Dewalt with all the accessories on Craig's list for $300. The seller even had the boxes and owners manual and it was like new.  I have been able to try all forms of scrolling with this saw and I will never advance to where I need anything more advanced. Maybe.  Shop around and you will come up with something that will get you started.

[Simpleman]

@CSull
I was " Scroll curious" when I got into scrolling. I found a Dewalt with all the accessories on Craig's list for $300.

I haven't given the idea up yet. I've had my eye on craigslist for something attractive with the accessories, too. I got a lot of info on here, for sure. The project I wanted to make with it may even be too simple to benefit from the presence of a scroll saw, but after seeing what I can do with one, I'm keeping my eyes peeled.

[Simpleman]

Here's a question for anyone still following this - do your saws cut other materials? Are they all essentially built to do so with the correct blade?

I was reading the hawk tools website, and am kind of impressed that you can cut pretty much anything with them -of course, I'd be into at least $1500 before even getting any accessories for it, but I can also keep a look out for one for sale on craigslist.

I might mention that I spent a decade as a mechanic, something you never really quit doing, even when you aren't on the line anymore, and shaping metal to my needs is a handy ability to have, and one I'm severely limited on with my current tool set. Being limited to working around other people's ideas is part of what made me look for something more fulfilling, but I've never stopped using it, and I know people on the full-custom and auto restoration side of things. I know this is a far cry from machine shop tools, but I can see making billet engine-driven accessory brackets and custom interior parts, and all manner of other items that always suck or maybe don't even exist on cars, but you always want them. They'd all have to be non-lathe-built parts, but there are plenty of those around every car. Even just custom metal, fiber. graphite and wooden trim and inlays are in demand for restorations and custom cars. I was a bit worried that the applications would be a little too much on the art side of things. I don't wonder why people like things like that; they're neat - I am so practical in that regard that I only recognize that things that don't serve a function still have to be cleaned. I have zero decorations in my home for that reason, save a few framed items on the wall. No judgment to anyone else - I know I'm the weird one.

Anyway, does anyone cut metal or any other materials on their saws? This has piqued my interest anew. I wonder what thicknesses of metals can be cut, or if anything is impossible to work with on a scroll saw, provided it doesn't exceed the throat clearance. Hawk even has glass cutting blades. It's pretty enticing.