Blade control, splittings lines.

[preprius]

Im cutting 1/4 in material. 

First pic is using 2/0 skip blade.

  with skip tooth I bounce between line edges. when I slowly turn the wood the blade twists 90 deg without cutting anything. I apply presure and still not any cutting action. So I have to fiddle with it. takes along time to make it turn. 

2nd pic is 2/0 MGT

 - by looking at lines it seems much better to control. 

1 . what technique am I missing for the 2/0 skip blade.

2. does the 2nd pic show I need to get better?

3. what line size setting in inkscape do you use?

 

Me.

Mark Eason

[dgman]

Two Questions: what brand 2/0 ST blade are you using and what saw are you using?

[preprius]

i have tried flying dutchman and these pic use pegas. 2/0 skip and 2/0 mgt.

Hawk .

I feel that non skip blades allows more teeth to cut both sides of blades. With skip I think they skipped one side of the blade.

Rotating the wood counter clockwise is worse than rotating the wood clockwise.

Edited June 23, 2021 by preprius

[Norm Fengstad]

My solution to this problem is to use bigger blade the real fine blades tend to raise my frustration level

[OCtoolguy]

I'm not really sure of what you are having problems with but I will say this....I've tried a lot of different blades and different sizes of the same blades. I have more or less homed in on the Pegas #5 mgt and use it for everything. I don't do puzzles but if I did, I'd probably have to use a smaller blade. I try to cut to the line as much as possible. I also try to keep the pattern lines as thin as possible so all I have to do is follow the line and not worry about splitting it. I don't use the highest speed either. I, depending on the pattern, use the slowest speed up to about mid-range on both of my EX saws. I just acquired a Hegner so I am still getting to know it.

 

Edited June 23, 2021 by octoolguy

[preprius]

@octoolguy thanks for reminding me. I am on slow maybe 25% saw speed.

 

Edited June 24, 2021 by preprius

[dgman]

I think the most important aspect of cutting with a 2/0 blade is tension. The blade needs to be tight, tight, tight. Most blades will not break at the proper tension. When you pluck the blade, it should have a high “ plink” or “ping” sound. The higher, the better. 
For me, the only 2/0 blades that track on the line properly are Olson reverse and skip tooth blades. All other 2/0 blades including Flying Dutchman an Pegas just don’t track well. 

Edited June 24, 2021 by dgman

[crupiea]

I find the regular 2/0 blades very floaty on 1/4" wood.  Cant control them as well as I like. Works great on 1/8" though.

I have been using a #1 for the 1/4 stuff and its working pretty well.  

My usual go to blades are 2/0 jewelers blades from pike.  They are very fine but stiffer so can handle the 1/4" stock better.  On the down side, they have no reverse teeth and make a mess on the back of the piece that needs sanding.  

[stoney]

The pattern you show in the first picture could be cut perfectly fine with most any size blade.   I have found that tension needs to be high enough to prevent bowing and wandering of the blade but not so high it results in excessive breakage.  Like others have said try a larger blade.  I personally only use the very small blades on projects that have very fine detail that require them.   The advantages of larger blades is there is more material to dissipate heat and prevent stretch which are both the biggest enemies.  JMHO  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[FrankEV]

LOts of good avice above, but lets talk a little differently.  I really can not speak directly to skip tooth blades as I don't use them.  I very rarely use blades larger than #1, I use very samall Pegas MGT R and Pegas sprials to do more tha 99% of the cutting I do.

If you are using a 2/0 blade to do very intricate fretwork and having difficulty tracking the line, I suspect you are probably pushing too hard and have the saw speed is up too high.  Proper tension is important, but yolu must let the blade do the cutting.  I do not like to spin the work piece to turn a corner when Im using a small blade so I tend to use what I call the double cut method.  Fully enter the corner, back out and cut a new cut over to the corner on the oppisite line leaving a small cut out that the piece can be rotated around the stopped blade to continue on the new path.  Rotating a work piece around the blade while cutting always leaves a rounded corner/intersection, rather than a very sharp point, especially when the corner is supposed to be very sharp.  I'd rather double cut than bugger up a corner or sharp point rying to rotate the piece while cutting.

Oh, just one other thing, you must look at the blade and line you are cutting and not look where you do not want go...if you do the blade will goi there...trust me, I know.

Now lets talk a little about tracking along the line.  When I'm able to, in Inkscape, I make the line width just about visible in RED at .005 inches and try to use a very light Grey fill.  Since I use a very thin line, I do not attemp to split the line, but rather keep the blade tracking as true as possible tight along the waste side of the line.  If I lose some control, I attempt to do so on the waste side so I can shave back to the line or even sand it smooth with my dremel burrs later if necessary.  Also, as you are well aware, in many intricate patterns adjacent cut lines may be very close together.  Using a thin line allow me to move the blade to the other side of the line to provide a little bit more space between parellel cuts.  Since the cut line is so thin this variation on which side of the line I cut is not even visible when all said an done.

I do not find the wood thickness to be of concern when using small blades.  However, the thicker the wood the slower the piece must be pushed.  Again the blade must do the cutting and it can't be rushed.

Unless I'm cutting something like block font or long straight or smooth curved lines I have personally gone to using spiral blades for cutting fretwork.  No rotating the work piece and much better line tracking once you master using spirals,  That being said I stll use the same method of tracking the blade along the cut line as I described above. For most fretwork I do, the pattern cuts are very forgiving if there is minor deviations in tracking the cut line. 

HTH

 

  

 

 

 

[tomsteve]

on the topic of splitting/following lines, i dont split lines. i pick an edge  of the line and follow it.

[Joe W.]

On 6/23/2021 at 5:25 PM, preprius said:

Rotating the wood counter clockwise is worse than rotating the wood clockwise.

This caught my attention.  I don't remember seeing any discussion on which direction to cut.
And I haven't noticed any difference in my cutting.  Am I missing something?  And does it make a difference?  And most curious as to why.  

Thanks,

joe

 

[OCtoolguy]

3 hours ago, Joe W. said:

This caught my attention.  I don't remember seeing any discussion on which direction to cut.
And I haven't noticed any difference in my cutting.  Am I missing something?  And does it make a difference?  And most curious as to why.  

Thanks,

joe

 

It will make a huge difference if you start cutting anything angled. It makes the difference how what you are inlaying will either drop down into the layer below or rise up to the layer above. Hard to explain.

 

[Tbow388]

Looks pretty darn good to me. I wonder off of my lines often when I am in too big of a hurry.

I do not use lines though. I have my pattern filled with a 40% gray. I leave the white and cut out the gray.

I saw rotation. I do best cutting counter clock wise. Thats just easiest for me.

[redwine]

I agree with all of the comments and I will add my 2 cents worth! I too have trouble with the 2/0 blades and it is more my trying to do what I do with other blades and it just does not work with the 2/0 blade or finer! 1/4 inch wood, hardwood or softer wood is just about the limit for this blade! They do require much more tension than the larger blade which you wouldn't thank so but it is true! Also you do have to turn down the speed, you cannot be in a hurry with this blade! As you have already found out you cannot turn the wood at sharper angles like you do with other blades, the blade will not track around like the larger blades do and you will have to do as Frank and I do, and that is make minute cuts to get the sharp angle cut. If you happen to be cutting 1/32nd or 1/16th material the blade may track around the shape bends, that i couldn't tell you, never had any material that that thin! As far as splitting lines, I have found that for myself the thinner the lines the easier it is for me to to stay on the line. It seems to force my brain to stay there and not wander off as I would with thick lines. Since we do not make our own patterns I have to do it different with patterns with the thick lines and track to either one side or the other of the edge! This does require more time for myself to make the cuts but than I am not employed by China! The worst ones to cut are the solid black patterns and that is the only choose to cut them! Just go by the advise and try any or all of the ideas but do put the tension to them and slow down the speed and let the blade do what it is supposed to do, cut the material!

Erv

 

 

Edited June 25, 2021 by redwine
misspelling

[crupiea]

18 hours ago, Joe W. said:

This caught my attention.  I don't remember seeing any discussion on which direction to cut.
And I haven't noticed any difference in my cutting.  Am I missing something?  And does it make a difference?  And most curious as to why.  

Thanks,

joe

 

I am a counter clockwise cutter. if I go clockwise i have issues oddly.  Not that the wood reacts any differently, its just not as comfortable for me.

[OCtoolguy]

12 minutes ago, crupiea said:

I am a counter clockwise cutter. if I go clockwise i have issues oddly.  Not that the wood reacts any differently, its just not as comfortable for me.

I'm just the opposite but I'm also left handed so that may explain it. I like the fact that both of my Excalibur saws have the tilting head so I can always cut clockwise even when I'm doing an angled cut. 

[preprius]

15 minutes ago, octoolguy said:

I'm just the opposite but I'm also left handed so that may explain it. I like the fact that both of my Excalibur saws have the tilting head so I can always cut clockwise even when I'm doing an angled cut. 

I too am left handed.  but left handers know how to adapt easier.

so why does angle matter? the blade is just cutting a tad more wood. 

 

 

[FrankEV]

55 minutes ago, crupiea said:

I am a counter clockwise cutter. if I go clockwise i have issues oddly.  Not that the wood reacts any differently, its just not as comfortable for me.

You only go clockwise if you live south of the equator!

[OCtoolguy]

57 minutes ago, preprius said:

I too am left handed.  but left handers know how to adapt easier.

so why does angle matter? the blade is just cutting a tad more wood. 

 

 

If you ever try to cut a bowl and have to cut at an angle, you'll quickly find out what the difference is. Think about it for a while and you'll see what I mean.

 

[Rockytime]

Hey, I'm left handed too! I cut counter clockwise.

[OCtoolguy]

7 minutes ago, Rockytime said:

Hey, I'm left handed too! I cut counter clockwise.

Not if you want to make a bowl. 

[WolfmoonCT]

I don't split the line. I cut to the side of the line.  I always cut counter clockwise. If I cut clockwise, for some reason, I lose control.  In sharp corners, I cut up to the corner, and back out a tad, then sometimes I come in a little to the side to make  it so that when I finish getting to the corner, I have cut just enough that I can then spin the piece and put the back of the blade in the corner and start cutting again.. leaves a nice corner for me.

I have a hard time on like 1/8" thick wood spinning the piece and not screwing up a turn especially with a new blade.  What I do a lot if I'm doing a sharp turn but not a full 90 or if it's past a 90, is I cut up to a spot, I take my foot off the pedal, I spin the wood like 30 degrees, and tap the pedal to make the blade do like 2 cuts, which lets the blade straighten out again, and I may do that a couple times till I'm around the corner.   On sharp rounds, I tend to keep doing small taps of the pedal as I spin it letting it take like one or two strokes per tap till I get around the super tight turn.  Someday I may break out the spirals I have so I don't HAVE to turn it...  but the person who had them when I bought the saw from him, coated them in a ton of oil.. and I am not sure I want to use them and get oil residue on the wood..

[preprius]

1 hour ago, octoolguy said:

If you ever try to cut a bowl and have to cut at an angle, you'll quickly find out what the difference is. Think about it for a while and you'll see what I mean.

 

it is only the decision to have negative angle of the table or positive angle. 

I dont have an arm angle unit. So I am assuming you can angle it 22.5 in either direction.

 

[OCtoolguy]

15 minutes ago, preprius said:

it is only the decision to have negative angle of the table or positive angle. 

I dont have an arm angle unit. So I am assuming you can angle it 22.5 in either direction.

 

Most saws have tables that will tilt one way or the other. Some both. The Ex saws tilt the head instead of the tables. I like to cut clockwise so I tilt the head whatever way will allow me to do that. But, with that said, I am still able to cut counter-clockwise. Just not as well. I'm also somewhat ambidextrous in some things. I bat and play golf right-handed. Bowling, left-handed. I know, I'm a screwball.