Positive vs. Negative (not opinions)

[FrankEV]

First let me provide "my" definetion or these terms.  In scroll saw fret work we cut away areas in a wood panel to expose a recognizable image to the human eye/brain. 

In some patterns we cut away the wood around the image - with or without an inclusive cut frame - where the cut panel is a "positive" image  (my definition) and the background is just that, a background.  The image is a projection above the backer.  

In other patterns the wood that is cut away creates the image, where the cut panel is a "negative':, again my definition, with the backer providing a contrasting color that  produces what the human sees as an image. In this type of cutting the image is only perceived and alwasy has a lot of gaps that are filled in by the brain to form the image.

BTW, there is also another version where both positive and negative is done on the same piece...I've don a few like that.

I'm hope my definitions are making sense and y'all understand the difference I'm describing.

There are no real Q&A here.  Maybe just a little discussion, comments, opinions, likes, dislikes about these different methods of  image creation.  Or maybe a better discusion is, which kind of "positive" of "negative" image creation is found to be more appealing to those who view, and/or comment on our. work? 

I'm not really considering Plaques or multiple layer pieces for this discussion altough there may be some revelance there also.

In this virtual meeting of the membership the floor is hereby open for discussion.    

 

 

 

[OCtoolguy]

Sorry but I have no idea what you are asking. 

[crupiea]

I started out doing regular sillouettes where you cut out the pieces and toss them and save the main piece. 

had to worry abotu those eye pieces and such that would fall out if not connected and the like. 

I was doing one and sort of winging it one day and after I cut out the pieces i had difficulty seeing exactly what i was doing so i put the cut out pieces back in to see if I could figure it out. 

Was sold right then and there that by just having contrasting color pieces it will make the artwork much better, for me anyway. 

I have thought about going back to some sillouettes but doing them the other way,  Getting rid of the main pattern and only saving the cut out pieces but havent got around to it yet.  Sort of a photo negative type thing. 

 

[preprius]

Frank your mermaid did have both posituve and negatiive silouettes. It make the viewer think.  For me it was easy to see the mermaid. Only after we discussed how to paint it did I realize it was both pos and neg.

So i guess the decision would be how or what the whole picture /story wants to be.   

If you want the viewer to think about the scene it is a good way to get them to pause and feel the art piece. 

[oldhudson]

I can't help but think a picture of examples, demonstrating your definitions, would be of value here.

[preprius]

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Mr_Pipo_negative_positive.svg

 

[Wichman]

If I understand correctly, in the following image (from Steve Goods site) the football is a "positive" image; the lettering, lacing, bands, and figures are "negative" images.

 

 

 

[FrankEV]

8 hours ago, oldhudson said:

I can't help but think a picture of examples, demonstrating your definitions, would be of value here.

You are correct, see below.

 

5 hours ago, Wichman said:

If I understand correctly, in the following image (from Steve Goods site) the football is a "positive" image; the lettering, lacing, bands, and figures are "negative" images.

wichman's example is not quite what I was refering to, but as a plaque it is a "Negative" Image within a "Positive" image that is acting as the background..

 

I should have include the following examples of what I was refering to in my original post.

My recent Bragging Rights post "Alucard...: is a good example of what I call a  "Negative" Image.  The wood removed from the cut panel revealed the Image and the cut panel itself creates the background . It is important to note that the images has many gaps/bridges in the image perimeter and the image is made up of many small cut out areas.  

 

An earliier post, my "Chinese Dragon" is a good example of a what I call a "Positive" Image.  The Removal of the surounding wood reveals the image and the backer becomes the background.  In this cutting the entire perimeter of the image is continuous and even if not mounted on a backer the image would be recognizable.

 

Going way back, my piece called "Pretty Kitty - Jaguar" is and example of what I see as are somewhat the combination of both. Although the image is actually a "Positive" image, because there are many gaps in the "Image" perimeter itself, it needs the eye to see the image as a continuous subject like a "Negative" image does.

 

15 hours ago, octoolguy said:

Sorry but I have no idea what you are asking. 

Hope this clears up my original post, especially for octoolguy!!! 

[ben2008]

Since I don't design patterns myself, It doesn't really matter to me if it's a positive or negative pattern, or a combination of both. If I like it, I try and cut it. The KISS principle for me.

Edited June 28, 2021 by ben2008

[kmmcrafts]

As Ben said, I cut the image because I like it, whether it be positive or a negative. I honestly never paid any attention to that myself and I never had a customer ask to make it a certain way either.. 

[Roberta Moreton]

So, positive, boats at sea, negative, dancer, both, girl with flowers and butterflies. Compound cuts will also be positive.  Interesting that I never considered this aspect before. 

[OCtoolguy]

8 hours ago, FrankEV said:

You are correct, see below.

 

wichman's example is not quite what I was refering to, but as a plaque it is a "Negative" Image within a "Positive" image that is acting as the background..

 

I should have include the following examples of what I was refering to in my original post.

My recent Bragging Rights post "Alucard...: is a good example of what I call a  "Negative" Image.  The wood removed from the cut panel revealed the Image and the cut panel itself creates the background . It is important to note that the images has many gaps/bridges in the image perimeter and the image is made up of many small cut out areas.  

 

An earliier post, my "Chinese Dragon" is a good example of a what I call a "Positive" Image.  The Removal of the surounding wood reveals the image and the backer becomes the background.  In this cutting the entire perimeter of the image is continuous and even if not mounted on a backer the image would be recognizable.

 

Going way back, my piece called "Pretty Kitty - Jaguar" is and example of what I see as are somewhat the combination of both. Although the image is actually a "Positive" image, because there are many gaps in the "Image" perimeter itself, it needs the eye to see the image as a continuous subject like a "Negative" image does.

 

Hope this clears up my original post, especially for octoolguy!!! 

Thanks Frank. I was just sort of "confused" over the question. Still not sure what difference it makes. But, that's just me.

 

[heppnerguy]

On 6/27/2021 at 6:20 PM, preprius said:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Mr_Pipo_negative_positive.svg

 

That is a great example of both in one cutting.

Dick

heppnerguy

[Angelo]

Hi,

I think we could talk in terms of adding material on a surface , silhouette on backboard or removing material from a surface to highlight the images that we want to show.

Maybe I am wrong but this is how I see this approach to the same issue.

Ciao

Angelo

[preprius]

sorry for a side note.... 

I like that vase. 

[Fedido]

I cut both positive and negative. The only thing that determines it is how the pattern presents itself. Hope this helps.

[MrsN]

I cut some of everything. positive, negative and mixed. It sort of depends on what the project is, what materials I have on hand and how I want to finish it.

If it is a project I am going to paint, it is typically cut positive. Also, most ornaments that I cut are positive because I think the show better on a tree.