Using spray adhesive over painter's tape--packing tape needed on top?

[DarlBundren]

On my current project, I am planning on covering the wood with painter's tape and then using spray adhesive to stick the patterns on.  If I go this route, is covering the pattern in packing tape necessary?  I've read some about the packing tape lubricating the blade some but am not sure this benefit warrants the extra steps and material.  And I am a complete noob.  Thanks!

[Bill WIlson]

I would say that the packing tape layer is not necessary.  The masking tape should provide a similar benefit of blade lubrication.

[don in brooklin on]

The only time I do that is when doing some hardwoods.  Hard maple, cherry, purpleheart.

Especially when cutting the compound mini birdhouses do it all the time.

If I don't have to I don't as the sawdust sometimes get trapped at the line.  If fine work I only tape the back with box tape.

As Bill says usually packing tape is enough. Same with shelf liner.

 

 

 

[OCtoolguy]

39 minutes ago, don in brooklin on said:

The only time I do that is when doing some hardwoods.  Hard maple, cherry, purpleheart.

Especially when cutting the compound mini birdhouses do it all the time.

If I don't have to I don't as the sawdust sometimes get trapped at the line.  If fine work I only tape the back with box tape.

As Bill says usually packing tape is enough. Same with shelf liner.

 

 

 

Don, I've been trying to help a fellow on Facebook. He is doing compound cutting in maple and purpleheart, making a chess set. I told him to use a #5 skip tooth or superskip tooth blade. Can you advise on what I told him? I'd hate to lead him astray. Since you mentioned exactly what he is doing I thought I'd ask. Thanks for your help.

[WolfmoonCT]

I only put painters tape down, then spray the pattern with Super 77..   I have used packing tape when taping larger multi page patterns together, and I find that when I start cutting through the packing tape the sawdust stays in the cut more and seems to obscure the lines.

[Jim McDonald]

I used to be blue, glue, pattern and packing tape on everything. 

Recently, I got some slightly distressed rolls of shelf liner and now use it on larger projects, saving the expensive blue stuff for smaller projects.

Still use packing tape as a backup in case the 3M77 didn't get a good grab on the pattern. I did not use packing tape on 2 14 inch pieces I did recently, but I made sure there was plenty of spray glue on the liner.

[don in brooklin on]

4 hours ago, octoolguy said:

Don, I've been trying to help a fellow on Facebook. He is doing compound cutting in maple and purpleheart, making a chess set. I told him to use a #5 skip tooth or superskip tooth blade. Can you advise on what I told him? I'd hate to lead him astray. Since you mentioned exactly what he is doing I thought I'd ask. Thanks for your help.

#5 is what I use.  I have never used skip tooth but I think they should do fine. I am not familiar with superskip but it reading the specks and it should be fine too.

I am a die hard Flying Dutchman and when I have hard wood I usually use a #5 Polar. 

Recently, I had some had some cherry and I found the #5 MGT worked well. Not a Pegas fan as I find them aggressive.  

I am a believer that the best blades are the one you get used too.

In all cases I wrap with box tape.

 

 

[Hawk]

Tried the blue tape thing once, really didn't care for it, I use clear shelf liner and glue the pattern to that, haven't had any problems since.  I gotta say I really don't understand how the adhesive lubricates the blade, I just can't wrap my head around that. Seems to me like it would increase the friction the blade creates.

Chris

[OCtoolguy]

1 hour ago, Hawk said:

Tried the blue tape thing once, really didn't care for it, I use clear shelf liner and glue the pattern to that, haven't had any problems since.  I gotta say I really don't understand how the adhesive lubricates the blade, I just can't wrap my head around that. Seems to me like it would increase the friction the blade creates.

Chris

I always thought the same thing Chris. Makes no sense. I spray my blades with WD40. Lol.

[kmmcrafts]

9 hours ago, Hawk said:

Tried the blue tape thing once, really didn't care for it, I use clear shelf liner and glue the pattern to that, haven't had any problems since.  I gotta say I really don't understand how the adhesive lubricates the blade, I just can't wrap my head around that. Seems to me like it would increase the friction the blade creates.

Chris

Only time I've ever noticed any difference is when cutting wood that burns easily such as Cherry.. One thing also is blade speed, if you run a saw on slower speeds there is less friction / heat so you may not notice a difference... That being said.. If it helps from burning Cherry it must have some sort of lubrication effect thus making blades run cooler and last longer. It's been said that it is one of the compounds in the glue in the adhesive that is a lubricating properties. 

There are some folks that will have a block of wax by the saw and when installing a new blade they run the saw and rub that wax on the sides and back of the blade too. 

[stoney]

I read I believe on this forum that it is the substance on the outer surface of the tape that prevents the layers from sticking together on the roll that lubricates the blade. 

[Rockytime]

I tried packing tape. PITA!

[Bill WIlson]

The benefits of tape for blade lubrication has been a topic of discussion on various scrolling forums for as long as I can remember.  It's been debated and the concept has always had it's die hard believers as well as healthy skeptics.  If the show MythBusters was still on the air, I would be tempted to submit this as something for them to test, but unless they could blow up a scroll saw or two, I doubt it would ever make an episiode.

Anyway, I've been back & forth, over the fence on this one a number of times through the years.  I rarely use tape these days, but I do believe there is a benefit.  I proved it to myself one time while trying to cut an animal puzzle out of a particular piece of cherry.  My first attempt resulted in slow going and extreme burning almost immediately, even with a fresh, sharp blade.  I had no problems cutting a similar pattern, with the same blade, in a different piece of cherry, but wasn't having much luck with the first piece.  I decided to add packing tape and the results were dramatically better, even using the original blade.  Even though I had long known about the professed advantage of using tape, I had ceased using it my cutting some time before, not convinced that I was benefitting enough to off-set the extra time & effort spent applying and removing the tape.  However, after cutting that puzzle out of that particularly difficult piece of cherry, I was convinced the benefits of tape were more than just an internet myth.  I still don't use tape all the time.  If I'm cutting something where I anticipate problems, I'll take the time to use tape, but or most of my cutting I get along fine without it.

[OCtoolguy]

1 hour ago, Bill WIlson said:

The benefits of tape for blade lubrication has been a topic of discussion on various scrolling forums for as long as I can remember.  It's been debated and the concept has always had it's die hard believers as well as healthy skeptics.  If the show MythBusters was still on the air, I would be tempted to submit this as something for them to test, but unless they could blow up a scroll saw or two, I doubt it would ever make an episiode.

Anyway, I've been back & forth, over the fence on this one a number of times through the years.  I rarely use tape these days, but I do believe there is a benefit.  I proved it to myself one time while trying to cut an animal puzzle out of a particular piece of cherry.  My first attempt resulted in slow going and extreme burning almost immediately, even with a fresh, sharp blade.  I had no problems cutting a similar pattern, with the same blade, in a different piece of cherry, but wasn't having much luck with the first piece.  I decided to add packing tape and the results were dramatically better, even using the original blade.  Even though I had long known about the professed advantage of using tape, I had ceased using it my cutting some time before, not convinced that I was benefitting enough to off-set the extra time & effort spent applying and removing the tape.  However, after cutting that puzzle out of that particularly difficult piece of cherry, I was convinced the benefits of tape were more than just an internet myth.  I still don't use tape all the time.  If I'm cutting something where I anticipate problems, I'll take the time to use tape, but or most of my cutting I get along fine without it.

Thanks Bill. Always nice to hear someone's real-life experience. If anything, I have learned that if I'm going to do any cutting on hard wood, take the time to apply the packing tape.

 

[Rockytime]

I jut found it troublesome as the sawdust got under the tape and obscured the line. I thought I had burnished very well but perhaps not enough. I have lots of packing tape so may try it again on some compound cutting. That's where I tried using it before and got frustrated. 

[ben2008]

On 7/19/2021 at 1:57 PM, DarlBundren said:

On my current project, I am planning on covering the wood with painter's tape and then using spray adhesive to stick the patterns on.  If I go this route, is covering the pattern in packing tape necessary?  I've read some about the packing tape lubricating the blade some but am not sure this benefit warrants the extra steps and material.  And I am a complete noob.  Thanks!

I sand the piece first to 220. Remove the dust with a paper towel, then a tack cloth. Apply clear shelf liner. Spray the back of the pattern, Wait a minute or 2, then apply the pattern to the shelf liner. Make sure it's smooth. .Then scroll away. When done remove the shelf liner with no problem I never have any problems using that method.

Ben

 

Edited July 21, 2021 by ben2008

[kmmcrafts]

2 hours ago, Rockytime said:

I jut found it troublesome as the sawdust got under the tape and obscured the line. I thought I had burnished very well but perhaps not enough. I have lots of packing tape so may try it again on some compound cutting. That's where I tried using it before and got frustrated. 

Don't really have to put it on top of the pattern, it can go on the bottom side of the pattern, Also if you are one to use shelf liner.. OR shipping labels, most any self adhesive products have the chemical in it to lube the blade.. at least that is my understanding of it.. I happen to use both shelf liner and shipping labels. 

[OCtoolguy]

Where do you folks buy tack rags? I bought something called tack cloth at H/D and it is so sticky you can't wipe anything with it. It just drags and won't move. Any suggestions?

[kmmcrafts]

10 minutes ago, octoolguy said:

Where do you folks buy tack rags? I bought something called tack cloth at H/D and it is so sticky you can't wipe anything with it. It just drags and won't move. Any suggestions?

I never used them for woodwork but if you have a local auto body shop supply around you'll find some good quality ones.. may not be cheap though.. also if you ever need sanding paper.. autobody shops don't mess around with cheap junk usually.. at least that is my experience in my area..

One weekend years ago I needed a tack cloth for a car I was painting. Autobody supply shops not open on the weekend, so I went to a local big box store and bought some.. Those things are junk.. like you said.. very sticky, they left a sticky residual on the car and ruined my paintjob.. Not fun having to sand down and repaint a car because of a cheap tack cloth..

I will say also you don't need to "press" on them.. just lightly glide the cloth across the surface and it'll pick up dust etc. like a magnet. As they pick up more dust they obviously get less tacky / sticky.. then you can press on them some.  

[ben2008]

2 hours ago, octoolguy said:

Where do you folks buy tack rags? I bought something called tack cloth at H/D and it is so sticky you can't wipe anything with it. It just drags and won't move. Any suggestions?

Tack rags, tack cloth whatever. This what I use. They work just fine and I have used them for years and they never leave any residue.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001YJFYE8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[OCtoolguy]

One more question....what type of rags are good for staining? I need to get something as I don't have any tee shirts to plunder.

[ben2008]

14 minutes ago, octoolguy said:

One more question....what type of rags are good for staining? I need to get something as I don't have any tee shirts to plunder.

I have used these in the past. I cut them in half and they lasted a long time.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07YZVRVTY?pd_rd_i=B07YZVRVTY&pd_rd_w=GJaaW&pf_rd_p=ee186ce0-6bf7-4893-85b9-f3368b019e0f&pd_rd_wg=8d5p1&pf_rd_r=D0E4SASAXY6DRD4V5274&pd_rd_r=2dc0a6b2-afc6-4b34-9fe5-6b38b121fc32

Earlier this year i bought a 5 pound box of rags on Amazon. That's what I'm using right now. Either one works great.

 https://www.amazon.com/Arkwright-LLC-White-Cleaning-T-Shirt/dp/B08FVCQ9TP/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=Box+of+rags&qid=1626841648&sr=8-2-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzSEtPVkRPMjlYQzNDJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwODY2NTQxTlRPNFUxOERQVDhYJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTAyOTg4NDMzOFVNWFZUV08wUFpVJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

Edited July 21, 2021 by ben2008

[kmmcrafts]

Such pretty white rags, I bet the stain doesn't come out of them. 

[BadBob]

On 7/19/2021 at 8:59 PM, Hawk said:

I gotta say I really don't understand how the adhesive lubricates the blade, I just can't wrap my head around that.

According to Patrick Speilman, silicon on or in the tape keeps the tape from sticking together. The silicon gets on the saw blade as it passes through the tape and provides lubrication. He writes about this in one of his books, where he shows photos of cherry cut with and without the tape. The cherry burns when it is cut without the tape.

I suspect that all tapes are not created equal, which may explain variations in results.

[Rolf]

On 7/19/2021 at 8:59 PM, Hawk said:

Tried the blue tape thing once, really didn't care for it, I use clear shelf liner and glue the pattern to that, haven't had any problems since.  I gotta say I really don't understand how the adhesive lubricates the blade, I just can't wrap my head around that. Seems to me like it would increase the friction the blade creates.

Chris

I never bought into that either until I did a clock project for SSWWC. I was cutting the hands for the clock in Cherry which is notorious for burning (pitch pockets). I ran out of tape on part of it and this was the result. the burned area had no tape. 

I Never use packing tape. It is a pain in the butt to remove, and as others have said if you miss a piece and you will, especially on fretwork, it will screw up your finish.

I currently use only the Duck brand clear Removable, shelf liner.