Spiral blades

[ben2008]

I tried using spiral blades, not much luck. 

Maybe it's just me but when i tried to use them they left a very rough surface which I don't like, so I gave up. Plus i can't control them like I can with regular blades. From what I see with some folks that swear by them I do see rough surfaces also. Is a rough surface normal using a spiral blade, because mine certainly were? Maybe I'm doing something wrong.

[kmmcrafts]

What type and thickness of material and what spiral are you using?

I do find they aren't quite as smooth cutting.. especially the larger numbered ones.. I rarely use anything but a #2/0 in the FD NS ( Flying Dutchman New Spiral) style blade.. Pegas spirals are good blades but to me they're more brittle or something.. they seem to break much easier and the spirals in general seem to break easier anyway. Also if I do use Pegas I jump up a size.. instead of a #2/0 I use a #1. Pegas blades seem to run a bit smaller than the others.  I think the Olsen blades seem a bit harder to control and are a bit more aggressive.. A lot also depends on the saw set up..

All the inside cuts on this truck was done with a spiral.. I did move to a regular blade for the profile cut. This is like 5/8 -3/4 inch Pine.  Done it with the FD-NS #2/0.  After I sold this piece and needed to make another I switched to Poplar and I now cut it with a flat blade then go over the veining with the spiral to widen the kerf.. Much faster cutting it twice like that and looks much better even though I don't feel this looks bad it's not superb either. Almost all my portrait work shown on my web site is done with spirals.. typically always stack cut 3-5 pieces.

[ben2008]

14 minutes ago, kmmcrafts said:

What type and thickness of material and what spiral are you using?

I do find they aren't quite as smooth cutting.. especially the larger numbered ones.. I rarely use anything but a #2/0 in the FD NS ( Flying Dutchman New Spiral) style blade.. Pegas spirals are good blades but to me they're more brittle or something.. they seem to break much easier and the spirals in general seem to break easier anyway. Also if I do use Pegas I jump up a size.. instead of a #2/0 I use a #1. Pegas blades seem to run a bit smaller than the others.  I think the Olsen blades seem a bit harder to control and are a bit more aggressive.. A lot also depends on the saw set up..

All the inside cuts on this truck was done with a spiral.. I did move to a regular blade for the profile cut. This is like 5/8 -3/4 inch Pine.  Done it with the FD-NS #2/0.  After I sold this piece and needed to make another I switched to Poplar and I now cut it with a flat blade then go over the veining with the spiral to widen the kerf.. Much faster cutting it twice like that and looks much better even though I don't feel this looks bad it's not superb either. Almost all my portrait work shown on my web site is done with spirals.. typically always stack cut 3-5 pieces.

I use  3/4" most of the time for desk clocks, some toys,  and now a few puzzles.  Makes sense to cut the profile with a straight blade and the veining with a spiral. I don't do portraits. I'll give the  FD-NS #2/0 a try and see what happens. I really don't expect much though. LOL.

[Frank Pellow]

I am fairly certain that spiral blades are intended to give rough cuts.  I use them where rough cuts are the effect that I am looking for.

This is the case in "artistic" fretwork that depicts something like a scene or an animal.  I'm attaching photos of a couple of pieces I did in order to show what I mean by this:

 

Edited August 4, 2021 by Frank Pellow

[FrankEV]

1 hour ago, ben2008 said:

...Maybe it's just me but when i tried to use them they left a very rough surface...From what I see with some folks that swear by them I do see rough surfaces also. Is a rough surface normal using a spiral blade....? ...

You are correct, the spiral blade does leave a rougher vertical surface cut.  This roughness can be minmized if the movement of the work is kept steady.  Stoping and restarting can make the roughness signigficantly worse, although the prudent use of the blade to shave cuts can also minimise this visable roughness.

Although the cut by spirals is rougher the cuts do not show start and stop, or change in direction, marks, that are often very noticible with with flat blade cuts. 

Panel thickness can also make the roughness more visible.  In my opinion, spirals are more appropriate for thin panel fretwork although they do well cutting thicker panels if care is taken to minimize stopping and restarting.

Pattern design and subject can also result in the roughness being more or less visable.  The roughness is not very easily seen in subjects like feathered or furry creatures and can sometimes even enhance the cutting.  Roughness or wobbles in smooth long cut line patterns will definately be more visable.  For the smooth long line patterns I have found there is sometimes the need to clean up cut lines with rotary tool (Dremel) burrs to smooth out the roughness/wobbles.

Now, the real question is, where are you viewing the cut roughness from. Under the mag light?  An arms length away?  Or from the recommended 4 or more feet away, properly backed and displayed in a appropriate maner.   In my opinion, if you are observing the roughness of the cuts in any than the final viewing location, you are doing a diservice to  the scroller and blaming the the blades for something that has no real negative impact on the final product. 

 

  

  

Edited August 4, 2021 by FrankEV

[ike]

I have  tried them several times but they leave rough finish and are harder for me to control so I just gave up and use nothing but flat blades  they hjave done me for the last 50 year's  so why learn anything new at the age of 82. 

IKE

[ben2008]

10 minutes ago, FrankEV said:

You are correct, the spiral blade does leave a rougher vertical surface cut.  This roughness can be minmized if the movement of the work is kept steady.  Stoping and restarting can make the roughness signigficantly worse, although the prudent use of the blade to shave cuts can also minimise this visable roughness.

Although the cut by spirals is rougher the cuts do not show start and stop, or change in direction, marks, that are often very noticible with with flat blade cuts. 

Panel thickness can also make the roughness more visible.  In my opinion, spirals are more appropriate for thin panel fretwork although they do well cutting thicker panels if care is taken to minimize stopping and restarting.

Pattern design and subject can also result in the roughness being more or less visable.  The roughness is not very easily seen in subjects like feathered or furry creatures and can sometimes even enhance the cutting.  Roughness or wobbles in smooth long cut line patterns will definately be more visable.  For the smooth long line patterns I have found there is sometimes the need to clean up cut lines with rotary tool (Dremel) burrs to smooth out the roughness/wobbles.

Now, the real question is, where are you viewing the cut roughness from. Under the mag light?  An arms length away?  Or from the recommended 4 or more feet away, properly backed and displayed in a appropriate maner.   In my opinion, if you are observing the roughness of the cuts in any than the final viewing location, you are doing a diservice to  the scroller and blaming the the blades for something that has no real negative impact on the final product. 

 

  

  

It's probably just me. I'm too picky.

[ben2008]

1 minute ago, ike said:

I have  tried them several times but they leave rough finish and are harder for me to control so I just gave up and use nothing but flat blades  they hjave done me for the last 50 year's  so why learn anything new at the age of 82. 

IKE

I'm 81 and i like your reply. LOL

[redwine]

Ben and Ike, on the 13th of this month I will have made 83 trips around the sun, but back to the subject at hand. I started this hobby back in 2005 with a Dremel scroll saw and a book about scroll sawing and self taught myself how to do this great hobby! All the book said about blades was the different sizes and did mention the spiral blades for use if the project was larger than the space between the blade and the rear of the saw. Not knowing any better and with no one around here that did this kind of work I ordered some spiral blades and choose a portrait pattern of Merle Haggard  and the blades were cutting like a hot knife through cold butter! Not knowing that a spiral blade was impossible to control, I cut numerous portraits and sold nearly everyone! This tells me it is a mind set of hearing that about spirals, a person will set down at the saw insert the spiral and thread the blade through the entry hole, turn on the saw and start on the pattern all the while that nagging part about uncontrollable is in the brain and off you go! Actually you are not controlling the blade just as you are not controlling a flat blade, what you are controlling is the material you have the pattern on! As with a flat blade if you need to make a turn you turn the material, with the spiral you don't turn the material, you guide the material into the blade. Granted, if you are more accustomed to the flat blade and go to the spiral, you will have a new learning curve of not turning the pattern but moving the pattern lines into the blade and not turning the material. 

Erv

[Bill WIlson]

IMHO, spirals are a blade designed for a very specific purpose and not necessarily intended or suitable for most general scrolling.  I can't imagine trying to use a spiral on anything over 1/2" thick.  For my tastes, even 1/2" is a bit too thick.  Neither would I use a spiral to do traditional fretwork, such as a clock or a box.  

Spiral blades are great for portraits or patterns without a lot of straight, smooth lines.  Yes, they leave a rougher edge than straight blades do, but with the type of patterns and materials they are best suited for, it really isn't an issue.

Spirals will not handle like a flat blade.  The most common complaint about them is that they are hard to control.  That's because most people try to cut with them like they would a straight blade.  It takes a little practice and a different touch, but they really aren't all that hard to use, once you understand how they work and what they are best used for.

I don't use them all that often, but I've never really had much problem controlling them.  I can switch back & forth between straight and spiral blades within the same project without issue.  The blades are designed to cut in any direction, so they will wander in whichever way you apply pressure.  Use that to your advantage, rather then fight them, trying to make them cut like a straight blade.  Once you figure it out, a whole different world of scrolling opens up to you.