Finish Alternatives - Suggestions needed

[Iguanadon]

Hey Gang,

Need some input/options please.  Using rattle can spray lacquer finish on items.  Most times, works great, but lately the cans are clogging up constantly and driving me insane.  Could be that the garage is getting to hot and affecting the contents.  Don't know, but I need ideas as to other ways to finish these pieces please.  They have hooks installed and are to be hung on a wall, indoors (usually).  Any options need to be SIMPLE and quick... I know, I'm being picky, but I don't have the time to spend more than a few minutes per piece.  Thanks for any suggestions you may have. (Photo with cans are larger versions I've started making.  Collage shows normal size "key/leash racks".

[ben2008]

I spray most all of my projects with Deft spray lacquer and never have a clog. But I don't live in a humid climate and I spray inside with a temp of 72 degrees year round. Deft might be worth a try.

[FrankEV]

I also use Deft Spray Lacquer and prfer it over other brands.  Available at Ace Hardware. I have had blushing/fogging problems with other brands. I see in you pic you use Krylon.  Although I like Krylon for their paints, it is one of the brands I've had blushing problems with.

I'm in Florida with high humidity and very high temps this time of year.  I do have a small AC unit in my workshop, but temps still run well into the 80's in my small shop.

Of all spray finishes, lacquer is the easiest to use as it dries quickly and provide a godd solid coating after multiple coats.  Spray poly is hard to use with a long dry time and is effected by humidity.  Oils do protect the wood, but they tend to allow the piece to collect dust and really require maintenance coats ove time. 

IMHO, unless you use a quick drying primer and paint, lacquer for natural or stained products intended for indoor use is you best choice.

My Deft cans do not clog (at least they haven't ) on me.   The proper proceedurre of turning the can upside down and flushing the nozzle after use is a good idea even though I haven't needed to do that.

 

 

Edited August 11, 2021 by FrankEV

[Bill WIlson]

Shellac also is very easy to apply with a spray can, but has some of the same issues as lacquer when it comes to temperature and humidity.  Very high heat will cause dried shellac to soften and high humidity during application will cause blushing.  Otherwise, it fits your criteria pretty well.  I've not had problems with the nozzle clogging as long as I take rudimentary steps to keep it clean.

[OCtoolguy]

Being totally ignorant re:finishing,what is "blushing"?

[kmmcrafts]

Is there a specific reason you use spray cans and not invest into a cheap spray gun equipment?  At the level of work you turn out and using spray cans you'd save a ton of money on buying the lacquer in quarts, gallons, or 5 gal. drums...LOL Then the nozzle issues shouldn't be so bad.. However you would need to clean / soak the spray gun nozzle in cleaning solvent from time to time. 

I don't do much spraying of projects.. but now that I have been using the CNC to do carving work of signs etc.. I need to seal the wood real well before carving so the wood is completely sealed so when I paint the carved text or image the paint bleeding into the wood is minimal or non - existent.. I've been using this stuff.. water based poly.. was using spray cans but almost a full can per 2ft x 2ft sign drives the cost way up.. nearly $13 a spray can or like $10 for a quart or $50 a gallon. I like this stuff because it doesn't stink bad but the down side is you don't get high from the fumes like you get with lacquer  .. It dries super fast much like lacquer does maybe faster.. no strong spells so it's ready for packing in a short amount of time.  You can get it in spray cans but I will say.. the cans spray well at first but these do have issues with clogging up the nozzle unless you have enough to spray that you use most all the can.. Even wiping the nozzle when done it like foams out the nozzle even after upside down to clear the can and wiping the nozzle.. so for this stuff the spray equipment is almost a must.

https://www.amazon.com/Minwax-13333000-Polycrylic-Water-Based-Protective/dp/B000PSF9Q2

[Iguanadon]

1 hour ago, kmmcrafts said:

Is there a specific reason you use spray cans and not invest into a cheap spray gun equipment?  At the level of work you turn out and using spray cans you'd save a ton of money on buying the lacquer in quarts, gallons, or 5 gal. drums...LOL Then the nozzle issues shouldn't be so bad.. However you would need to clean / soak the spray gun nozzle in cleaning solvent from time to time. 

I don't do much spraying of projects.. but now that I have been using the CNC to do carving work of signs etc.. I need to seal the wood real well before carving so the wood is completely sealed so when I paint the carved text or image the paint bleeding into the wood is minimal or non - existent.. I've been using this stuff.. water based poly.. was using spray cans but almost a full can per 2ft x 2ft sign drives the cost way up.. nearly $13 a spray can or like $10 for a quart or $50 a gallon. I like this stuff because it doesn't stink bad but the down side is you don't get high from the fumes like you get with lacquer  .. It dries super fast much like lacquer does maybe faster.. no strong spells so it's ready for packing in a short amount of time.  You can get it in spray cans but I will say.. the cans spray well at first but these do have issues with clogging up the nozzle unless you have enough to spray that you use most all the can.. Even wiping the nozzle when done it like foams out the nozzle even after upside down to clear the can and wiping the nozzle.. so for this stuff the spray equipment is almost a must.

https://www.amazon.com/Minwax-13333000-Polycrylic-Water-Based-Protective/dp/B000PSF9Q2

Hey Kev, so, get me started... what cheap spray gun equipment would you suggest I start looking at?  I don't have a compresser, just as a starting point.  Initially the wall racks were just a "new item" but they've definitely turned into my top selling category so I do need to ramp up to keep up with production now. And you know me, I'm not afraid to spend whatever is necessary to do things right, or quickest.

Edited August 11, 2021 by Iguanadon

[Bill WIlson]

1 hour ago, octoolguy said:

Being totally ignorant re:finishing,what is "blushing"?

Blushing is a condition where if there is excessive moisture in the atmosphere or even in the finish itself (think moisture in the compressed air of a spray gun set-up), it will cause the finish to look cloudy.  The moisture gets underneath the finish and gives it a milky appearance.  Sometimes it will go away as it cures.  Sometimes it doesn't.  I typically don't use lacquer, but am aware that it is especially sensitive to moisture.  Shellac is as well, but the one time I experienced blushing, it went away on its own in a few hours.

[FrankEV]

38 minutes ago, Bill WIlson said:

Blushing is a condition where if there is excessive moisture in the atmosphere or even in the finish itself (think moisture in the compressed air of a spray gun set-up), it will cause the finish to look cloudy.  The moisture gets underneath the finish and gives it a milky appearance.  Sometimes it will go away as it cures.  Sometimes it doesn't.  I typically don't use lacquer, but am aware that it is especially sensitive to moisture.  Shellac is as well, but the one time I experienced blushing, it went away on its own in a few hours.

I have had blushing occur a number of times when using spray can lacquer.  After the coat dries a subsequent coat will eliminate the blushing...don't know why, but it does.

As I mentioned before, it has happened with lacquer by Minwax and Krylon, but never Deft.  

My Ace Hardwear used to only have one or two cans of Deft on the shelf.  However, since I have been buying them out frequently, I noticed they are stocking more now.   I only get two, maybe three 11x14 panels out of one can so I buy a min of two cans at a time.

[OCtoolguy]

1 hour ago, Bill WIlson said:

Blushing is a condition where if there is excessive moisture in the atmosphere or even in the finish itself (think moisture in the compressed air of a spray gun set-up), it will cause the finish to look cloudy.  The moisture gets underneath the finish and gives it a milky appearance.  Sometimes it will go away as it cures.  Sometimes it doesn't.  I typically don't use lacquer, but am aware that it is especially sensitive to moisture.  Shellac is as well, but the one time I experienced blushing, it went away on its own in a few hours.

Thanks Bill, I have experienced just that using spray shellac but had no idea of what it was called. It did go away overnight and I was quite happy that it did. I thought I had totally screwed up my project. 

 

[OCtoolguy]

27 minutes ago, FrankEV said:

I have had blushing occur a number of times when using spray can lacquer.  After the coat dries a subsequent coat will eliminate the blushing...don't know why, but it does.

As I mentioned before, it has happened with lacquer by Minwax and Krylon, but never Deft.  

My Ace Hardwear used to only have one or two cans of Deft on the shelf.  However, since I have been buying them out frequently, I noticed they are stocking more now.   I only get two, maybe three 11x14 panels out of one can so I buy a min of two cans at a time.

I have only purchased a couple of cans of Deft from my local Ace store but when I went there a couple of weeks ago, they didn't have one single can on the shelf. I'm hoping it's just a sign of the times and it will re-appear.

 

[kmmcrafts]

2 hours ago, Iguanadon said:

Hey Kev, so, get me started... what cheap spray gun equipment would you suggest I start looking at?  I don't have a compresser, just as a starting point.  Initially the wall racks were just a "new item" but they've definitely turned into my top selling category so I do need to ramp up to keep up with production now. And you know me, I'm not afraid to spend whatever is necessary to do things right, or quickest.

For the life of me I can't remember who it was that used a electric sprayer to spray paints through.. But someone on here had posted they had great results from a electric sprayer. I don't have any experience with the electric ones and cannot give any advice on them. I used to do autobody / paint work so I have a large 80gal air compressor and some very pricey spray gun equipment. If you go the spray route with a air sprayer.. I have seen good reviews on the cheap harbor freight HVLP spray gun.. but you'd need a compressor for that.. and it might be a better option to look into the electric sprayers.. Wish I could remember who it was that used it on here. Maybe you need to post another topic about spray equipment. Buying a quart  / gallon etc. of clear is way more economical in the long run.. but it also works best if you can run batches.. if you're just spraying a couple at a time it might be better to keep using spray cans. 

I just thought of who it was that "I think" was using electric sprayers.. Maybe @Dave Monk can give you some advice on them?

Edited August 11, 2021 by kmmcrafts

[oldhudson]

I'm with Kev on this, given that you're really a commercial operation. I've successfully sprayed with this equipment (haven't tried lacquer). You don't need a compressor.  The only real downside, that I'm aware of, is that it's not available with a gravity gun. 

https://www.rockler.com/earlex-spray-station-5500-with-15mm-fluid-tip-needle

[kmmcrafts]

Siphon guns can work just as well as a gravity HVLP.. The advantage of the HVLP is instead of needing 40 - 50 psi for a siphon gun you can get the same quality spray from a HVLP gun at 15 - 20 psi ( maybe less or maybe more depending on type of paint etc. ).. The lower the pressure the less paint floating in the air due to not having to have such high pressure blowing the paint and some paint bouncing off the intended painting object.. The least amount of pressure that can still spray a nice even coat is less paint going into the air.  

In those high temps you're having in the south.. be careful of the flash point of the chemicals you're spraying.. don't want to see a small craft shop exploded on the news.. Some paints have a flash point around 100F. it's the fumes that are more explosive than the actual liquid.. If you're outside spraying maybe not much of a issue but in a enclosed shop where the fumes can linger for a while and then running electrical tools that can create a tiny spark.. could be a very big firecracker that could take the shop / garage or house down.. maybe all of them.

[Dave Monk]

I've been using SW precatalized lacquer for several years. The lacquer cost me about $32 a gallon. I got tired of going through at least 5 rattle cans a week. The gun is not cheap but I totally love it. I leave lacquer in it all the time and clean the spray nozzle about every two weeks. I'm spraying something about every day. I put at least two coats on every thing I do and go over it with a sanding mop in between coats. I expect the finish on my projects to be as nice as fine cabinetry. That may be an over kill for what you are striving for. I will mention that going to something like this you have a lot of stink to deal with. 

When it is hot or humid I add a tiny bit of retarder to the lacquer so it dries without a problem.

If you would like, you are welcome to send me something to finish so I can show you my results.  

 

[ike]

I use spray can liquor I have a hand sprayer that fits over the can has a Triger that Persis down on the can button. it works great. it's made by Rustj-olumand cost about $6 at Home depot. I was surprised how much was left in the can before I bought this. Now I use all that is in the can I get about 5 to 6 more dogs per can using 2 coats. at $6 it's worth a try.

IKE

[Roberta Moreton]

I store all my finishes inside my house in a lockable cabinet where I have heat and air conditioning. I also don’t have problems with spray cans going bad.   I don’t have a business. 

[new2woodwrk]

I have several compressors and thanks to someone here who brought this up, I recently purchased this spray gun

It is VERY easy to use and does not use a lot of pressure. I turn my main compressor down to 45-50 and spray I could easily use my pancake compressor if I wanted with this gun

It covers very well, it is also extremely easy to clean.

You simply place the medium in a mason jar, attach the jar and the compressor and spray away

I use Polyurethane and Shellac through it, and  both use soap and water for clean up and for tougher cleanups I use denatured alcohol.

I keep a jar of soap and water and denatured handy both in mason jars for easy attachment to clean up

It cost $50. I should mention I also have 5 other sprayers that I no longer use (HPLV and LPHV) and this one is so much easier to use and clean

Edited August 12, 2021 by new2woodwrk

[Iguanadon]

19 hours ago, Dave Monk said:

I've been using SW precatalized lacquer for several years. The lacquer cost me about $32 a gallon. I got tired of going through at least 5 rattle cans a week. The gun is not cheap but I totally love it. I leave lacquer in it all the time and clean the spray nozzle about every two weeks. I'm spraying something about every day. I put at least two coats on every thing I do and go over it with a sanding mop in between coats. I expect the finish on my projects to be as nice as fine cabinetry. That may be an over kill for what you are striving for. I will mention that going to something like this you have a lot of stink to deal with. 

When it is hot or humid I add a tiny bit of retarder to the lacquer so it dries without a problem.

If you would like, you are welcome to send me something to finish so I can show you my results.  

 

Thanks a lot Dave for providing your thoughts and info.

[Rockytime]

6 hours ago, new2woodwrk said:

I have several compressors and thanks to someone here who brought this up, I recently purchased this spray gun

It is VERY easy to use and does not use a lot of pressure. I turn my main compressor down to 45-50 and spray I could easily use my pancake compressor if I wanted with this gun

It covers very well, it is also extremely easy to clean.

You simply place the medium in a mason jar, attach the jar and the compressor and spray away

I use Polyurethane and Shellac through it, and  both use soap and water for clean up and for tougher cleanups I use denatured alcohol.

I keep a jar of soap and water and denatured handy both in mason jars for easy attachment to clean up

It cost $50. I should mention I also have 5 other sprayers that I no longer use (HPLV and LPHV) and this one is so much easier to use and clean

I don't have the Critter but have read very good reports about it on the Village and it has good reviews. I have considered buying it but I have so few times I need it. But that should not mean I don't want one.

[kmmcrafts]

I like the idea of being able to use the mason type jars and being able to run the spray and then switch jars and run a few seconds of cleaner through the sprayer.. Dislike the fact that you need to run 40-50psi though.. It's amazing how much not only wasted spray goes into the air but also how much fine dust gets blown around in a room that appears to be dust free.. that is until you start blowing that kind of air pressure.. Love my HVLP spray gun because of the low pressure of about 10 - 20 psi. not even factoring in the fact of less paint material needed to do the job.. Our woodworking finishes are very cheap when you compare them to automotive finishes, some of which run $1000 for a pint size. So the cost savings is crazy in the auto industry to stay away from siphon feed type guns, they're becoming obsolete in the auto industry.. 

PS. also siphon feed guns have waste that is left in the bottom of the paint can that the siphon straw can't pick up,  kinda like trying to suck the last bit of your milkshake or malted. Gravity feed guns spray out down to the last drop left in the can.. Also to mention that when you do get down to the last little bit in the bottom of a siphon feed gun.. they'll spit rather than spray a normal mist of paint.. 

That all being said, wood finishes are cheap. I like the jar idea and I may get one to mess around with. Hate using my high dollar spray equipment for my woodwork stuff, not because of the woodwork itself but because it's crucial to have them very clean if you ever use it for auto paints again.. These guns are way too pricey to chance ruining a car finish job because you run a oil base solvent through it.. auto paints and oils or any contaminants do not go well together at all and the price of not only the paints.. but all the prep work that goes into painting a car.. just not worth it. I have a very old ( still high end and pricey ) siphon spray gun that I have used for wood stuff.. it's a gun that I couldn't sell and get anything out of it but nothing I'd use for painting autos these days so I have used it for other things. It's just a pain to clean afterwards.. So the jar system seems like a great way to go.. just not fond of the pressure, but price is right for trying it out.  

[new2woodwrk]

10 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

I like the idea of being able to use the mason type jars and being able to run the spray and then switch jars and run a few seconds of cleaner through the sprayer.. Dislike the fact that you need to run 40-50psi though.. It's amazing how much not only wasted spray goes into the air but also how much fine dust gets blown around in a room that appears to be dust free.. that is until you start blowing that kind of air pressure.. Love my HVLP spray gun because of the low pressure of about 10 - 20 psi. not even factoring in the fact of less paint material needed to do the job.. Our woodworking finishes are very cheap when you compare them to automotive finishes, some of which run $1000 for a pint size. So the cost savings is crazy in the auto industry to stay away from siphon feed type guns, they're becoming obsolete in the auto industry.. 

PS. also siphon feed guns have waste that is left in the bottom of the paint can that the siphon straw can't pick up,  kinda like trying to suck the last bit of your milkshake or malted. Gravity feed guns spray out down to the last drop left in the can.. Also to mention that when you do get down to the last little bit in the bottom of a siphon feed gun.. they'll spit rather than spray a normal mist of paint.. 

That all being said, wood finishes are cheap. I like the jar idea and I may get one to mess around with. Hate using my high dollar spray equipment for my woodwork stuff, not because of the woodwork itself but because it's crucial to have them very clean if you ever use it for auto paints again.. These guns are way too pricey to chance ruining a car finish job because you run a oil base solvent through it.. auto paints and oils or any contaminants do not go well together at all and the price of not only the paints.. but all the prep work that goes into painting a car.. just not worth it. I have a very old ( still high end and pricey ) siphon spray gun that I have used for wood stuff.. it's a gun that I couldn't sell and get anything out of it but nothing I'd use for painting autos these days so I have used it for other things. It's just a pain to clean afterwards.. So the jar system seems like a great way to go.. just not fond of the pressure, but price is right for trying it out.  

You don't have to run it at 40-50, that's just where I found I get the best covering for my needs.

It actually performs best @ 30-35 which where they suggest you use it

Hope that helps

[SCROLLERNATION]

Ditch the Krylon brand and use shellac or deft and when your done using them turn the can upside down and spray it til the tip cleans off.  It helps to also manually clean the tip front after with mineral spirits before you put it away.  

[SCROLLERNATION]

Also something to note Klingspore has preval spray kits no air compressor needed.  I use them on airplanes, helicopters missiles etc for priming stuff and they work great.  I even used them on some parts for the Orion

[crupiea]

The caps on those cans are the trouble.  

What I did to solve this was as soon as i am done using the can, I take the nozzle off and leave it soaking in a mason jar of mineral spirits.  

This solved 99% of the trouble.